Saved $16 but feeling a little guilty - Page 7

[thriftyqueen]

In a perfect world, we would all buy locally made household items, locally grown food, handmade clothing, or we would make and grow everything ourselves. This is obviously not a reality and it is not a perfect world. We can all strive to do our part to support local business and leave a smaller footprint on this earth by purchasing less and "needing" less. Borrowing things from people that we only need every now and then. Sharing our talents with others and bartering for products and services. These are ways of staying away from purchasing from big corportations.

In a perfect world, none of us would shop at big corporations (Wal-Mart, Target, CVS, Office Max, Staples, K-Mart, Sears, Old Navy, Etc.). We would go back to 1920's western US where there are actually mom and pop owned shops to purchase things. This would be great. This is not the way the world is anymore unfortunately. Nearly every large corporation or discount store has ghosts in the closet when it comes to how they treat their employees, health insurance, business practices, child labor laws, etc. If we are going to boycott Wal-Mart, we better start boycotting the rest of them, too. Wal-Mart has been exposed. The rest of the have not necessary let their ghosts out of the closet.

It all goes back to making a personal decision of what is best for your family. If you live in a remote area with very few choices and need to save the money so your kids can eat, shop at Wal-Mart. Kids health is more important than worrying about not shopping someplace. Now if one can afford to shop elsewhere, by all means, stay away from places you don't agree with. If you can take the time to shop around, shop around and save that way. Not all people have this option or time to do so.

Instead of all of us stabbing each other in the back for decisions we make based on the part of the country we live, the finances we have, and the choices we have, why don't we just embrace each other personal decisions and forget about our own opinions. Spend some time walking in someone else's shoes and you may have a different viewpoint in life.

[candykane]

Thank you Thirfty Queen. You said that perfectly. We will ALL have to answer for our choices eventually and we need not judge each other.

[Rainbowbird]

Originally Posted by Nature

Have you actually read the whole thread? Because there most certainly is an air of superiority among some posters who choose not to shop at Walmart.

Yes, I have read the whole thread. No, I did not get a sense of superiority about boycotting WalMart, at all. I think some people here are very passionate about their personal ethics and shopping decisions, but I didn't get a sense of superiority about it. And that includes the lady who talked about her kids not wanting stuff from WalMart. I say, good for her, that is great. I didn't feel like she was bashing me for occasionally shopping there.

I do shop at WalMart on the rare occasion that I can't find an item elsewhere (I stated this in my first post in this thread). Generally I avoid them like the plague, along with Target and the others. I don't judge people who shop there; I just think we should all do our part to boycott them if we can.

I do feel WalMart is worse than other big box stores. There's a reason they have so much more bad publicity. It's because they ARE bad, and they are HUGE, and they create more damage to local economies.

Speaking of which, if we want to help poor mamas who might be working at WalMart, or need to shop there, I think our money is better spent donating to food banks, volunteering at shelters etc., or sharing our bounty with less fortunate neighbors. Because shopping at WalMart isn't going to help anyone in the long run, it's going to continue to weaken the local economy and make WalMart richer.

If someone absolutely has to shop there, like the lady who had to buy milk at WalMart in Hawaii b/c it was $8 elsewhere, well, what else can you do? I agree that $8 is not affordable for most of us. In that case I think it's definitely up to the rest of us to boycott them as much as possible so that maybe SOMEDAY that lady can buy a gallon of milk at Safeway or some other store for a reasonable sum.

[Rainbowbird]

Originally Posted by nathansmom

Which Walmart store had the lowest prices? The one in the rich area. The highest prices were in the poor area. Was it just a few cents? No there was a $3 difference on the same size and type of Tide. Milk prices had a difference of a $1. The news purchased 16 items at all three stores and the rich area store total was $41 something. The middle class store was $48 something and the poor area store was $59. Why the price difference? They asked a socialogist why there was a price difference and he said it was because the poorer people don't price shop, travel to shop, and just shop at what is close to them which after Walmart runs out other business its just them to shop at. After the story ran I hit three stores near me which would fall in the same three classes and my results were the same as the news station.

That is SO evil. Which is why I am saying, those of us who are in a position to do something about that place--BOYCOTT! They should be put out of business!

[Rainbowbird]

Originally Posted by bigeyes

Not to mention all those other non-Wal-mart companies that pay so little that families still qualify for medi-Cal or whatever it is called in your state.


Wal-Mart is not to blame for the health care crisis, our government is.

Those other non-Wal-Mart companies could probably afford to do more for their employees if they weren't being squeezed to death by WalMart! I really think that most people do not realize just how big a negative impact WalMart makes on the economy!

I do agree that our health-care crisis is complex and should be entirely restructured.

But WalMart could indeed improve society a great deal if they weren't so frickin' greedy.

[sabrinat]

I absolutely love these types of threads. They remind me to be less judgemental of others choices and to respect that my experience and journey in life isn't everyone elses and vice versa. To each his own.
I shop at Walmart, I make no excuses or apologizes about it. Ours is clean, well stocked, I find many items that I can't find at other stores for the same price. While I care about the world at large and humanity, my first obligation is to my own family...yep, I said it, I care about them more. If shopping at Walmart means that I can be a SAHM and still afford all needs and some of our wants I say Amen, thank goodness for Walmart!
For me it's not an issue of being bought or lack or morality, it's about economics, plain and simple. I love going to the farmer's market, aldi's, dollartree and lots of other places, but I will probably always spend a precentage of our food budget at Walmart.
I find it so ironic that many of us found MDC and mothering as a safe haven away from the criticisms of mainstream parenting, yet we're quick to criticism anyone who we deem not carrying the banner quite as high as ourselves. Go figure!

[Rainbowbird]

Originally Posted by sabrinat

I find it so ironic that many of us found MDC and mothering as a safe haven away from the criticisms of mainstream parenting, yet we're quick to criticism anyone who we deem not carrying the banner quite as high as ourselves. Go figure!

But nobody was criticising anyone, with the exception of the WalMart shopper who claimed that another pp was "elitist" or had a "superior attitude" or something to that effect because the pp wrote about her ethics on the subject with regards to her children. And another WalMart shopper used the word "snobbish".

The only bashing that has occured, IMO, is from the WalMart shoppers (I won't call them "supporters" since I know some of them really don't care for WalMart and feel forced to shop there).

I didn't find any of the boycott mamas to be snobbish or suffering from a superiority complex. They simply stated their own practices and beliefs on the topic.

[Rainbowbird]

Originally Posted by bigeyes

And until I see compelling evidence that Safeway's (or KMart's or Walgreens') made in China junk is somehow superior to Wal-mart's made in China junk, I think the only people who can really say they are boycotting are those who only buy locally made goods.

It's not just the made in China junk that is the issue. It's the way WalMart operates here, putting other local businesses out of business, then driving their own prices up to make a greater profit when shoppers have nowhere else to go; the way they treat their employees. WalMart is too large, too greedy, and too powerful. They should be stopped. They have to be in violation of something! I wish they would make a big huge error that results in their downfall.

[Leta]

Originally Posted by Rainbowbird

Those other non-Wal-Mart companies could probably afford to do more for their employees if they weren't being squeezed to death by WalMart! I really think that most people do not realize just how big a negative impact WalMart makes on the economy!

I do agree that our health-care crisis is complex and should be entirely restructured.

But WalMart could indeed improve society a great deal if they weren't so frickin' greedy.

Bolding mine. As to the first bolded part: This is a nice thought, but it is completely and totally false. I did my thesis on the modern American healthcare crisis. Does WM negatively impact local economies? In many, many cases, YES. But the problem with healthcare is that it cannot be regulated by conventional market driven means. THE HEALTHCARE CRISIS IS IN NO WAY THE FAULT OF ANY MANUFACTURER OR RETAILER.

As far as the second bolded part goes, yes, absolutely. But you could subsitute "Wal-Mart" in this sentance with almost any other money making enterprise.

[AngelBee]

:

[Nature]

Having the attitude of "if you really wanted to.." or "if you were compassionate of other humans..." or "if you had higher morals..." "then you too would boycott walmart" isn't having a superiority complex?

[Carolinamidwife]

Well, Rainbowbird, I am not a wal-mart shopper so before you go chalking up my disagreeing with you to my secret shame over bargain shopping I was wondering if you had any back up documentation for these statements (other than propaganda):

and they create more damage to local economies.

It's the way WalMart operates here, putting other local businesses out of business,

Like I said, I am not a Wal-mart shopper but before I decide for someone whether or not the job they might be getting at Wal-mart is affecting my local economy I like to have all of the facts.

[swimswamswum]

Originally Posted by Leta

Bolding mine. As to the first bolded part: This is a nice thought, but it is completely and totally false. I did my thesis on the modern American healthcare crisis. Does WM negatively impact local economies? In many, many cases, YES. But the problem with healthcare is that it cannot be regulated by conventional market driven means. THE HEALTHCARE CRISIS IS IN NO WAY THE FAULT OF ANY MANUFACTURER OR RETAILER.

As far as the second bolded part goes, yes, absolutely. But you could subsitute "Wal-Mart" in this sentance with almost any other money making enterprise.

I disagree and agree with Rainbowbird. While the healthcare crisis is certainly complex, it absolutely is related to current manufacturing and trade policies in the United States. When places like Walmart choose to provide their shareholders and owners with greater profit at the expense of their employees and the people manufacturing the goods they sell, they are absolutely contributing to the high rate of uninsured people in this country. When they choose to low ball decent manufacturers like Rubbermade and force them to rely on exploitative labor in poor countries, they absolutely contribute to high rates of uninsured and unemployed people in the US. States are left with the burden of providing healthcare for people who once had decent, well paying manufacturing jobs, they aren't able (or willing) to provide clinicians with competitive reimbursement rates, and costs go up for everyone.

I do not disagree with you that a problem in healthcare is that it cannot and should not be regulated by conventional market means. Capitalism and health care absolutely should not mix. I am a strong proponent of universal healthcare and healthcare reform. This does not mean that I believe that the policies and decisions of major, profit driven corporations like Walmart do not also contribute to the crisis. I think it's a "both and" problem, rather than "either or".

We also have to remember that health is not just defined as access to care. It's about having access to all of the things that we need to stay healthy- avoiding stress, eating well, having clean environments, etc. These things are absolutely related to making a living wage and having a job where you're treated with dignity. Walmart's track record shows that they are not interested in treating all people with dignity and that they have no interest in providing their employees or those manufacturing for them with a living wage and the right to organize.

[my6beans]

Toilet paper

I shop at Wal-Mart. We are a famly of 8 and on a somewhat fixed income. I find if I shop at Wal-Mart I am getting almost 2x's as much as if I shop at Hannaford or Target. When it comes to toilet paper, I am NOT willing to scrimp. It doesn't make a difference if you buy tp at Wal-Mart or any other store as it all comes from the same place. Yes I feel bad for those people, but when it comes to having a few extra dollars in my pocket I will still shop at Wal-Mart.

[jennlyn]

As far as Wal-Mart charging different prices in different areas, I have found this to be true. I have two superstores in my area within a five mile area. I went to the one that is more out-of-town and got a couple of food items that I normally buy. Two of them were priced fifty cents higher than at their other store. I mentioned it to the cashier, who acknowledged that different stores have different prices, but she did charge me the lower prices on the items. I do not live in a rural area, however, we do not have any low-cost grocery stores here. The one we had ( where I often shopped) got bought out by a larger grocery chain that didn't want to bother with a low-end retail establishment. If I go to a grocery store, I purchase the loss leaders. Many items are priced anywhere from .25 to 1.00 more than the same item at Wal-Mart. When I had more cash , I shopped more at the higher -end grocery store. They did not treat their employees particularly well either. A woman who worked there many years was told that the store "couldn't afford" to give the employees a raise that year, but I don't recall any news that store profits were down in any way. Another told me of how they would cut back employee hours to next to nothing so employees would have to quit in order to find other work. I recently read a NY Times article about buying green. The author stated that it gets a bit ridiculous when people are buying fruit at Whole Foods in the winter that was flown in on a 747 from Chile. The gist of it was that people need to consume less, period. I do not have any produce stands locally. The one nearby closed down. I have visited rural areas where there are very, very few choices as far as shopping goes. I have choices, but I don't think supporting my local grocery that doesn't treat employees well is such a great choice either. No, there are not unions there either. I worked at a grocery store many years ago and it was union. Minimum wage was 3.10. After a couple of years I was making 6.50, with benefits. If I went and got a job at a grocery store here, I would probably be making about the same wage I made 25 years ago. While I applaud the efforts many of you have made to make people aware, please be tolerant of those who aren't as far ahead on the journey to awareness or need to make different choices for their families.

[wonderwahine]

Originally Posted by Rainbowbird

Speaking of which, if we want to help poor mamas who might be working at WalMart, or need to shop there, I think our money is better spent donating to food banks, volunteering at shelters etc., or sharing our bounty with less fortunate neighbors. Because shopping at WalMart isn't going to help anyone in the long run, it's going to continue to weaken the local economy and make WalMart richer.

thats a big assumption, I know even on our tight budget we still donate food and clothing. Just because we shop at walmart doesn't mean we arn't.

not to mention, the thousands of dollars in food that WALMART donate to the food banks ad homeless shelters in our area. I think if walmart had to cut costs suddenly because of lack of sales, that would be one of the areas that suffered first, so how would boycotting help?

[wonderwahine]

Originally Posted by Rainbowbird

Those other non-Wal-Mart companies could probably afford to do more for their employees if they weren't being squeezed to death by WalMart! I really think that most people do not realize just how big a negative impact WalMart makes on the economy!

I do agree that our health-care crisis is complex and should be entirely restructured.

But WalMart could indeed improve society a great deal if they weren't so frickin' greedy.

how on earth is a casino being squeezed to death by walmart, or an insurance company that laid dh off 3yrs ago, in 4 yrs of working there, selling insurance, he was never offered any or even a discount.

[nannymom]

Originally Posted by Rainbowbird

But nobody was criticising anyone, with the exception of the WalMart shopper who claimed that another pp was "elitist" or had a "superior attitude" or something to that effect because the pp wrote about her ethics on the subject with regards to her children. And another WalMart shopper used the word "snobbish".

The only bashing that has occured, IMO, is from the WalMart shoppers (I won't call them "supporters" since I know some of them really don't care for WalMart and feel forced to shop there).

I didn't find any of the boycott mamas to be snobbish or suffering from a superiority complex. They simply stated their own practices and beliefs on the topic.

I think you are refering to me and I didn't call anyone an elitist or say anyone had a superior additude what I said was that an anti Walmart position can be/often is elitist. If you are going to call a me out at least take the time to read my point.

[thriftyqueen]

I honestly don't think Wal-Mart is to blame for health care issues in the US. Most companies cannot pay for their employees health insurance. My DS works for a wonderful business in our community. It is a professional business. They offer him some health benefits, but nothing for the rest of the family (my DS and I are on our own and have terrible insurance). They would love to fund our insurance, but with premiums going up every year (not because of Wal-mart) they can't do it. It would cost them $600 a month to pay our insurance. That is a lot.

I would say it is more the health insurance companies that are causing some of this. And the hospitals and clinics that charge an arm and a leg. And people not taking care of their bodies, thus causing more sickness.

[Leta]

Originally Posted by swimswamswum

I disagree and agree with Rainbowbird. While the healthcare crisis is certainly complex, it absolutely is related to current manufacturing and trade policies in the United States. When places like Walmart choose to provide their shareholders and owners with greater profit at the expense of their employees and the people manufacturing the goods they sell, they are absolutely contributing to the high rate of uninsured people in this country. When they choose to low ball decent manufacturers like Rubbermade and force them to rely on exploitative labor in poor countries, they absolutely contribute to high rates of uninsured and unemployed people in the US. States are left with the burden of providing healthcare for people who once had decent, well paying manufacturing jobs, they aren't able (or willing) to provide clinicians with competitive reimbursement rates, and costs go up for everyone.

I do not disagree with you that a problem in healthcare is that it cannot and should not be regulated by conventional market means. Capitalism and health care absolutely should not mix. I am a strong proponent of universal healthcare and healthcare reform. This does not mean that I believe that the policies and decisions of major, profit driven corporations like Walmart do not also contribute to the crisis. I think it's a "both and" problem, rather than "either or".

We also have to remember that health is not just defined as access to care. It's about having access to all of the things that we need to stay healthy- avoiding stress, eating well, having clean environments, etc. These things are absolutely related to making a living wage and having a job where you're treated with dignity. Walmart's track record shows that they are not interested in treating all people with dignity and that they have no interest in providing their employees or those manufacturing for them with a living wage and the right to organize.

Sorry, but no. It's a "both and" problem, sure- but it's a *very* simple solution. What it boils down to is this: the problem is so complicated because we tie healthcare to employment, which is diabolically stupid. The solution is easy: expand Medicare to cover everyone, not just those over 65.This is a job for government, and government alone. It is only thru the negligence of our government that employers have any role to play whatsoever.

I spent 6 months of my life living, breathing, and eating this issue. If you want to get into why we have a healthcare crisis, I'd be happy to have that conversation, tho' I certainly do not think that this is the appropriate thread for it.

ETA: I am in Public Health. The whole point of my feild is educating people on how to take care of themselves. So yes, earining a living wage is a strong indicator of leading a healthy lifestyle. That criticism of Wal-Mart (and many other corporations) is very well founded.