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Saved $16 but feeling a little guilty - Page 9

post #161 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by xmysticprincessx View Post
i'm going to assume that that we're all parents since we're on MOTHERING.com. so why not get off the computer and go play with your kids? seriously, 8 pages about arguing about shopping or not shopping at wal mart is rediculous, especially since there have been countless other wal mart threads on here before. the people who boycott wal mart will contine to boycott it. and the people who shop there (either on a regular basis or once a year) will continue to shop there (or target, or CVS, or kmart, or costco, etc). nobody is going to change anybody else's mind about walmart.

its a beautiful day. (well, here at least. and for the time being.) GO OUTSIDE AND PLAY WITH YOUR KIDS. or do housework. or something else.

mods, can we lock this thread?
MDC is a discussion board and I think there's a pretty good discussion going on here. If you're not interesting in contributing, then don't, but allow the rest of us to carry on this conversation if that's how we choose to spend our time.
post #162 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowbird View Post
It is not false. Smaller companies would be doing better without giants like WalMart putting them on the edge. They would likely be able to pay their employees better and have better benefits if the local economies were not so endangered.
Bolding mine, again. This last line is false. Perhaps smaller companies would be able to pay their people better, sure, I'll believe that. But a total lack of WM, or for that matter, corporate retailers, would not lead to more affordable healthcare insurance.

The problem with healthcare is that it is unrelated to local economies, or for that matter, national economies. It is its own thing, and unresponsive to other market forces. That is my point. The cost of healthcare insurance is out of control for one reason and one reason alone: the companies that provide healthcare insurance are for-profit companies. This is a perfect example of capitalism run-amok, and therefore has common ground with the criticisms of WM, but the two problems are unrelated.

Now, if WM owned a for-profit healthcare company, I wouldn't like them, then, either, but I still don't think it's the fault of HMOs that the U.S. health system is in crisis. It is the fault of our government. Which is composed of our citizens, so the fault lies with us.

When I was in school, we were taught that we had a mixed economy- neither purely capitalist, nor socialist. We had capitialist companies that had to adhere to government oversight. If we want not-for-profit healthcare, the government is the only entity that can provide it. If we want responsible corporate citizens, it is at least as important to email congress and have them pass laws ensuring good corporate citizenship as it is to boycott.

The nasty strain of greed-worshiping conservatism that started with the election of Reagan in '80 moved us away from a mixed economy, and toward unfettered, immoral capitalism. We are reaping the consequences now, both in terms of corporations like WM and the healthcare crisis.

It is the negligence of our government that has led to the current sorry state of healthcare. Again, I don't like WM, but I call BS on blaming them for healthcare problems of any stripe. Not their job, not their fault. You wanna blame them for discrimination, outsourcing, sprawl? Not only will I hear you out, I'll agree. But on healthcare? Nah.

I think if we are really interested in providing healthcare for everyone, we should call and email our members of congress and tell them to get on board with John Conyers. I think that, regarding healthcare alone, any boycott of any business is pointless.
post #163 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe View Post
Of course! But it's not governement negligence. You're a democracy. It's everyone's fault. if you really wanted the person next door to have health care you'd vote for it. And people don't, because they don't. I'm sure a higher proprtion of MDC members DO care, but a fair chunk don't, and a massive number of your countrymen are actively against healthcare, too. Just look at how many people hear about public health systems and say "oooh, but higher taxes". Not only is that selfsih, but in my country, where everyone gets what they need when they need it, the waiting times are shorter than in America and IT COSTS LESS. Your employer can pay anywhere from $300 to $1000 a month for your insurance, and you'd have to be earning a shedload of money to pay an extra $1000 a month in taxes. We certainly pay more in pay lost to health insurance than we'd pay in taxes at home.
Yep, yep, and yep.
post #164 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimswamswum View Post
MDC is a discussion board and I think there's a pretty good discussion going on here. If you're not interesting in contributing, then don't, but allow the rest of us to carry on this conversation if that's how we choose to spend our time.
Exactly!
post #165 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowbird View Post
I and others find it insulting to be called snobs, elitists, etc. for trying to boycott them. Did you not expect that someone would be offended?
Again, I never said that. I just said it was insulting to be told I was doing anything other than trying to save money by shopping there.

We are all entitled to our opinions, but your tone was condescending. I don't believe I am contributing to the healthcare problem by shopping at walmart because the healthcare problem has so many other causes.

Now, if we all agree not to buy anything from any companies who send jobs overseas, for example, I could feel good about saving jobs here. Or if we all agree not to buy anything made outside of the US, (providing we are all living in the US) but to boycott Walmart based solely on the healthcare thing is bogus, imo. Does anyone know if there are computers that are completely manufactured in the US. I mean with no parts coming from any other countries?

Here their wages are pretty competitive for retail. The healthcare thing is a problem with so many employers I just can't get behind it as a reason to boycott walmart. I need a more compelling reason since I believe the healthcare crisis is the fault of our government in collusion with big business in general.

I still feel like you were sneering in several of your posts, and so far nothing you have said has changed that. If you really didn't mean to be insulting, I'm willing to chalk it up to the difference between the spoken and the written word if you are. I just have a hard time understanding how saying I don't understand the entire thread is anything but insulting. YKWIM?
post #166 of 411
IMO Target and Kmart are no better than WM. I do shop there., I don't like throwing my hard earned money in the trash.
post #167 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe View Post
Of course! But it's not governement negligence. You're a democracy. It's everyone's fault. if you really wanted the person next door to have health care you'd vote for it. And people don't, because they don't. I'm sure a higher proprtion of MDC members DO care, but a fair chunk don't, and a massive number of your countrymen are actively against healthcare, too. Just look at how many people hear about public health systems and say "oooh, but higher taxes". Not only is that selfsih, but in my country, where everyone gets what they need when they need it, the waiting times are shorter than in America and IT COSTS LESS. Your employer can pay anywhere from $300 to $1000 a month for your insurance, and you'd have to be earning a shedload of money to pay an extra $1000 a month in taxes. We certainly pay more in pay lost to health insurance than we'd pay in taxes at home.
Sadly, you have hit the head on the nail when it comes to health care. People talk and talk but in the end all "we" care about is ourselves, not our neighbor. You talk to the average joe on the street and while we all agree that there is a heathcare crisis, if the solution involves raising taxes then most of us say hell no.

The thing is many of us are living in this fricking bubble where we cannot see the plight of others until we lose our jobs, lose our insurance and then we say crap, there is a problem.

Most Americans are only a few checks away from being in a bad situation, heck if I didn't have a fairly well off FIL at the moment I'd probably be in a real bad jam. As it is due to dh's self employment at present we don't have insurance, I am in that nasty middle place.. too much income to get any assistance with healthcare but realistically with my debtload I can't afford to self pay. In my state to get real coverage runs $1100 a month, for years we had a crappy high deductible policy ($350 a month w/ a 20K deductible) but decided to get rid of it since we needed the 350 and it covered zilch anyway.

As far as Wal-Mart, I see them as a symptom of a much larger problem in this country, yeah they suck and they do a lot of bad but again is K-Mart, CVS and all those other folks that much better?

Shay
post #168 of 411
Erm, xmysticprincessx, are you not right here posting as well? Or should I assume you were posting from the park with your kids?
post #169 of 411
Shay, I totally agree about healthcare.

I want to say that I think Walmart is worse that the other big boxes because of its size and power. It is able to strong-arm manufacturers in a way that other stores aren't.

Have you seen the Frontline special, Is Walmart Good For America?
It shows some very specific examples of Walmart's unique impact on the US.

You can watch it on-line for free:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/
post #170 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimswamswum View Post

I want to say that I think Walmart is worse that the other big boxes because of its size and power. It is able to strong-arm manufacturers in a way that other stores aren't.
This is the single most coherent I have read on this entire thread, and yes, I've read the whole thing.
post #171 of 411
I would have waited until Target had their sale on school supplies.

The fact that you're feeling guilty shows that this wasn't the right choice for you. Is it enough to return the items? It depends on whether or not your'e going to think about how awful you feel every time you use the items.
post #172 of 411
Just out of curiosity, I have a question for those that think Wal Mart should be shut down:

Hypothetically speaking, say they did close all of their doors. What then happens to the millions of people they employ.....many of whom would not be able to find a job elsewhere? What happens to the folks that have to shop at Wal Mart due to financial reasons, or geographical reasons?
post #173 of 411
Oh, believe me, I see the rest. Michael Moore has no greater fan than Rainbowbird!

I didn't mean to be condescending. But it infuriates me to see people with different or more strongly expressed ethics characterized so negatively.

DH and I are always bugging our state and national legislature. I really think they are sick of hearing from us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
I don't believe I used either of those words.

Your tone has been condescending in several posts. I disagree with you, and I don't see why those of us who do are characterized as ignorant. Walmart is not fabulous, but they are not the devil either. Plenty of big businesses are equally bad.

It's ok to dislike Walmart, but I will not blame them for our health care crisis, or for all poverty in this country and others. It's just not so. Sure, they contribute. But so do many others.

I've read the articles and watched the independent films. I happen to disagree that Walmart is the root of all evil.

What about Dell having all their customer service people in India? How about Daizey sending their manufacturing plants to Mexico? Did they contribute to our economic problems? How about Ford continuing to crank out inferior vehicles? Is it the fault of an American company that Toyota jumped forward to become the number 1 seller of automobiles? Maybe they should have made better cars.

We're so busy ragging on Walmart that we don't notice how many companies continue to send jobs out of the country.

If we're really worried about healthcare, maybe we should pay less attention to walmart and more to our government. Maybe we should ask our representatives why it's legal for a corporation to get tax breaks in the US while having factories in other countries. Maybe we should ask why it's legal to work someone 32 to 38 hours in some states so they can't qualify for full time benefits?

It isn't walmart, but they are sure a convenient scapegoat, and they keep you busy so you don't see what the rest of them are doing.
post #174 of 411
[QUOTE=Nature;8759649 Telling others that they are not trying hard enough, or much not have the high morals and standards for life that they have.. is just rude.

[/QUOTE]

Who said these things in this thread?
post #175 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowbird View Post
Oh, believe me, I see the rest. Michael Moore has no greater fan than Rainbowbird!

I didn't mean to be condescending. But it infuriates me to see people with different or more strongly expressed ethics characterized so negatively.

DH and I are always bugging our state and national legislature. I really think they are sick of hearing from us...

Well, then it sounds like we have some things we do agree about.
I think some stones have been thrown on both sides. We just all have to do what we think is best, and it really is different depending on where you live.

I mean, if you saw me walk past the bell ringing santas during the holidays, you might think I didn't give to charities, but the reality is, I give to charities I choose, not the ones that try to guilt me into it.

FTR, I'm still waiting to hear back from my state rep. I'm not holding my breath.
post #176 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nature View Post
Having the attitude of "if you really wanted to.." or "if you were compassionate of other humans..." or "if you had higher morals..." "then you too would boycott walmart" isn't having a superiority complex?
I didn't see this attitude. It is inferred on your part. Which poster said things that implied these things? Because I didn't get that from anyone. I realize that you now think I am one of these people, but who, before our little online confusing exhange, made you feel this way? I mean, I know you can't name a name, but I just don't see a post that fits this description.

At any rate, no hard feelings, at least not on my part. I think this thread really brings up passionate feelings on both sides of the issue, prob. mainly because we are all angry that a place like WalMart even has to exist so that a mama in Hawaii, for example, can buy a gallon of milk for her children without going broke.

Now I'm going to excuse myself, because I am having an issue with a scratched cornea, and I don't think the computer screen is helping. And this thread is beginning to give me a headache--too many posters, it's getting confusing! I'll check back tomorrow (if it ain't locked by then )
post #177 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
Well, then it sounds like we have some things we do agree about.


FTR, I'm still waiting to hear back from my state rep. I'm not holding my breath.
I'm sure we do!

We have a rep who never writes back, either. Honestly I don't think he gives a f*$k.
post #178 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
I would have waited until Target had their sale on school supplies.
I wait until the school season is over(Sept or Oct), then I go to Target, and school supplies end up being marked down, and often up to 75 or even 90% off! (Same with Christmas stuff, actually with a lot of stuff. ) They're in the middle of clearing their summer stuff, so a lot have gone to 75% off too.

So I know it won't help for this year, but since you know you'll need school supplies next year, buy it on clearance(if you have on nearby that is).

I don't like the stuff at Walmart, it always seemed like poorer quality. The clothes are too big for me, their small sizes are umm larger than small(at least they're too big for me!) The meats are injected with solution, which makes it not as cheap as it seems. And a lot of their foods come from china, which I'm currently in a suspicious mood about(chinese food safety practices being sketchy). Their furniture is ugly, and cheap particle board. Electronics are always the lowest of the line, stripped down versions. I don't think they offer very good values for the money. It may be cheap, but it ain't no bargain.

So after reading a lot about their business practices, we fall in the avoider category. We found out that a chain in Costa Rica was either owned or controlled by them and decided it wasn't worth going to that chain.
My parents love them though. So I do end up going there on occasion. I bring my reusable bag and keep the crap to a bare minimum.

I was thinking of trying the "avoid everything made in China" deal, but I think that would be a moratorium on purchases in general. But that wouldn't be so bad, I buy too much anyway. Although Target's got some wooden toys made in Europe on clearance right now, yikes! (I'm waiting till they get to 75% off )
post #179 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimswamswum View Post
MDC is a discussion board and I think there's a pretty good discussion going on here. If you're not interesting in contributing, then don't, but allow the rest of us to carry on this conversation if that's how we choose to spend our time.
Seriously. That comment was just nasty.
post #180 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowbird View Post
Who said these things in this thread?
It was expressed quite a few times in a number of posts. But, it wasn't said in so many words..
I don't think any of the posts were by you though.

I think sometimes people write things without thinking about how another person might interpret the post. And still sometimes things get interpreted differently than how the poster meant it.

Theres no hard feelings here. I think conversations like these are important and I do enjoy hearing everyones point of view.

I hope your cornea feels better soon! Ouch!
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