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Saved $16 but feeling a little guilty - Page 13

post #241 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by nantahala View Post
Too true.

I think folks focus on making decisions about boycotts, etc. because it feels empowering, but social change and feeling good are like community to individual and communities include EVERYONE - something we know boycotts rarely address.
I think this is another "both and" issue. Boycotts can be effective tools. Look at Apartheid in South Africa. Did it end because all of the whites realized that subjugation and exploitation are moral wrongs? No. It ended largely because of global boycotts. My employer and many others pulled out all investments from any company invested in South Africa. Financial devaluation forced social change.

Furthermore, I think boycotts can be catalysts for social change. They are often educative and informing. The grape boycott in California was also effective at both improving conditions and wages for farm workers as well as educating the general public.

Most boycotts don't take the involvement of everyone to be effective. They're usually effective when a percentage of profit decreases. This can be done both with the actual boycott as well as threats and negative publicity.

In reading many of these responses, I think a lot of this comes down to world views. Some people see themselves as having some power and some control. I couldn't function if I didn't believe this.
post #242 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Sweeties1Angel View Post
WTF are you talking about? Wal-Mart employees are "allowed" to have a second job. Hell, Wal-Mart WAS my second job.
Okay, okay! So my Playboy source didn't have all the facts. Sorry! :

But, I must say, 2Sweeties1Angel, that is in really hypocritical for you to get angry at someone for shortening your username in a way that you find insulting and then essentially use the worst swear word there is AT ME. I can be a major potty mouth, but I still think it is rude to shout F&^% at me. Would you do that if we were sitting in a coffee shop having coffee and this discussion?


Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
I boycott any product that marks the price up for a name. Nike (plus the sweatshop aspect,) Converse (which used to be cheap until they became fashionable,) Tommy Hilfiger (sp?) just because I don't think I should pay to advertise for them.
OT Alert!

But don't all businesses do that? ITA with you on paying to advertise, which is why I don't purchase shirts with company names on them. But EVERYBODY marks stuff up...it's how you make a profit (and that would be the extent of my business knowledge!).

Converse Chuck Taylor's cost approximately the same now as they did when I was in ~high school (or j. high...can't remember when I last had Converse)....about $40. Yeah, they are slightly more expensive, but not much.

But specifically about the line that Stella McCartney's line with Adidas....she's a vegetarian and doesn't design with fur or leather, which is cool. Now, her shoes run ~$180, so I couldn't afford those anyway, but that's not only because of Adidas, but because it is Stella McCartney. There's a mark-up there, and as far as I know, she's a pretty eco-conscious designer (now, I have NO idea about the labor practices of the companies she uses to make her stuff).

If you are saying that you won't purchase products that are marked up (I know you said due to name, but EVERY product is marked up, IMO), then where does that leave you? Does that mean you need to shop at the thrift store (still a mark-up, since they get it for free, but if you support the organization....), or to sew your own clothes (but then what about the price of the fabric....), etc? I'm TOTALLY not trying to be snarky or anything. I am actually really enjoying this conversation, and am just curious how you (or anyone else) deal with a world where EVERYTHING is for sale, EVERYTHING is designed to generate a profit, etc.
post #243 of 411
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but those prices are probably below cost. They wave a super low unbelievable price in front of you so you go in to buy these items (so, they're losing, maybe .20-$1 per item), and while you're there you (well, not you, but others) buy the school clothes, your groceries, and other household items, and they end up recouping the $$ from the school supply loss, and make a bigger profit on everything else that you end up buying there. So, Walmart probably lost money from your purchase.
post #244 of 411
[QUOTE=Petersmamma;8774453]Okay, okay! So my Playboy source didn't have all the facts. Sorry! :

But, I must say, 2Sweeties1Angel, that is in really hypocritical for you to get angry at someone for shortening your username in a way that you find insulting and then essentially use the worst swear word there is AT ME. I can be a major potty mouth, but I still think it is rude to shout F&^% at me. Would you do that if we were sitting in a coffee shop having coffee and this discussion?
[QUOTE]

That's not hypocritical in the least. Being condescending (and I'm still not buying the shortened username excuse) and using swear words are two totally different animals. If for some bizarre reason I was actually in a coffeeshop with you, I would've said the same thing. I don't believe in censoring myself for prudish people and a comment as purely ignorant as "Wal-Mart doesn't let employees have second jobs" or whatever it was kind of calls for the f-bomb.
post #245 of 411
[QUOTE=2Sweeties1Angel;8774603][QUOTE=Petersmamma;8774453]Okay, okay! So my Playboy source didn't have all the facts. Sorry! :

But, I must say, 2Sweeties1Angel, that is in really hypocritical for you to get angry at someone for shortening your username in a way that you find insulting and then essentially use the worst swear word there is AT ME. I can be a major potty mouth, but I still think it is rude to shout F&^% at me. Would you do that if we were sitting in a coffee shop having coffee and this discussion?
Quote:

That's not hypocritical in the least. Being condescending (and I'm still not buying the shortened username excuse) and using swear words are two totally different animals. If for some bizarre reason I was actually in a coffeeshop with you, I would've said the same thing. I don't believe in censoring myself for prudish people and a comment as purely ignorant as "Wal-Mart doesn't let employees have second jobs" or whatever it was kind of calls for the f-bomb.
Wow. : Thanks. I appreciate being called ignorant. Sigh. Another MDC moment to treasure.

Oh, and had you shouted &*^% at me in said coffee shop, I would have walked out on you. So I guess it's good we aren't friends. But maybe, just MAYBE, the reason I don't like people shouting obscenities at me is NOT because I am ignorant, but because I respect myself and others enough to not treat them in such a rude and disrespectful manner. Or, then again, maybe I'm just a dumb idiot.

Oh, one more thing. You WERE being condescending towards me, which you indicated by calling me ignorant, thus implying that YOU are NOT ignorant. So, yup. Hypocritical. Just to call a spade a spade.
post #246 of 411
I find it really sad that this post started as a feeling guilty about shopping at Wal-Mart and has now turned into an all out bash of people's values, morals, choices, decisions, speech, typing skills, etc, etc, etc.

When did we all decide that we are better than the next person? What happened to using this forum as a place to find ideas, support, and community from like minded people? Like minded doesn't mean that we all have to think exactly the same way.

It is really sad that people think they can stab each other in the back just because they are not face to face. Maybe we need to start thinking about what we type in the same frame of mind as if we were talking to a friend/coworker/boss/significant other. We should be treating each other with respect instead of thinking we can treat others like garbage.

It sickens me to think that people come here for support and community when they may not be able to find it where they live and they get treated so horribly.

Maybe we need to go back to what our own mothers taught us as children....If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all. Would you say the things you so freely say on here in front of your kids? I certainly don't want my child hearing or reading this garbage.
post #247 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by thriftyqueen View Post
I find it really sad that this post started as a feeling guilty about shopping at Wal-Mart and has now turned into an all out bash of people's values, morals, choices, decisions, speech, typing skills, etc, etc, etc.

When did we all decide that we are better than the next person? What happened to using this forum as a place to find ideas, support, and community from like minded people? Like minded doesn't mean that we all have to think exactly the same way.

It is really sad that people think they can stab each other in the back just because they are not face to face. Maybe we need to start thinking about what we type in the same frame of mind as if we were talking to a friend/coworker/boss/significant other. We should be treating each other with respect instead of thinking we can treat others like garbage.

It sickens me to think that people come here for support and community when they may not be able to find it where they live and they get treated so horribly.

Maybe we need to go back to what our own mothers taught us as children....If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all. Would you say the things you so freely say on here in front of your kids? I certainly don't want my child hearing or reading this garbage.
Thank you for this, Hope. I completely agree with everything you've stated here.
post #248 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymay View Post
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but those prices are probably below cost. They wave a super low unbelievable price in front of you so you go in to buy these items (so, they're losing, maybe .20-$1 per item), and while you're there you (well, not you, but others) buy the school clothes, your groceries, and other household items, and they end up recouping the $$ from the school supply loss, and make a bigger profit on everything else that you end up buying there. So, Walmart probably lost money from your purchase.
This is true. Grocery stores have been doing this forever- these items are called loss leaders. Around here, bacon is a popular one. You can get a pound of bacon for 89c on sale. That is either at or below the store's cost. Another common one is hot dogs- there will be this fantastic price on hot dogs, advertised heavily to get people in the store. Then the store makes up for it on sales of buns, ketchup, mustard, relish, napkins, charcoal briquets, and other stuff that goes along with hot dogs. It's only the smartest fish that come in, buy a lot of what's on sale, and leave.

With WM, they are sooo huge that their entire grocery department functions as a loss leader. They make a very small- like pennies- profit on something like 85% of food items. But people buy enough non-food groceries and general merchandise that they still make a ton of money. The pathetic thing is, 85% of WM food is bullsh!t- overprocessed, overpackaged, unneccesary crap.
In my extremely detailed pricebook, I have found that, when it comes to whole, healthy food items, WM has consistently unbeatable deals on two things only- dried beans and club soda. I want to get a Soda Club machine, if/when that happens, I won't need bottled club soda anymore. As for dried beans, we would have to buy 50# to match WM price per pound. However, we will probably get some of these in trade the next time DH moonlights at the cafe.
So maybe, if I'm lucky, some other store will get it together for WIC items and I'll only go to WM to recycle plastic bags.
post #249 of 411
Amen Aquazul! I said essentially the same thing 3 or 4 pages ago. Regardless of what side of the issue we're on (this or any other topic) none of us has the right to pass judgment. It's sad that we couldn't have all just supported that mom who OP and said, "hey, you're ok. you do the best you can when you can and when you know better you do better.". It can be cloaked in "educating" each other, but in the end...it's all the same thing, judgment.
post #250 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petersmamma View Post




OT Alert!

But don't all businesses do that? ITA with you on paying to advertise, which is why I don't purchase shirts with company names on them. But EVERYBODY marks stuff up...it's how you make a profit (and that would be the extent of my business knowledge!).

Converse Chuck Taylor's cost approximately the same now as they did when I was in ~high school (or j. high...can't remember when I last had Converse)....about $40. Yeah, they are slightly more expensive, but not much.

But specifically about the line that Stella McCartney's line with Adidas....she's a vegetarian and doesn't design with fur or leather, which is cool. Now, her shoes run ~$180, so I couldn't afford those anyway, but that's not only because of Adidas, but because it is Stella McCartney. There's a mark-up there, and as far as I know, she's a pretty eco-conscious designer (now, I have NO idea about the labor practices of the companies she uses to make her stuff).

If you are saying that you won't purchase products that are marked up (I know you said due to name, but EVERY product is marked up, IMO), then where does that leave you? Does that mean you need to shop at the thrift store (still a mark-up, since they get it for free, but if you support the organization....), or to sew your own clothes (but then what about the price of the fabric....), etc? I'm TOTALLY not trying to be snarky or anything. I am actually really enjoying this conversation, and am just curious how you (or anyone else) deal with a world where EVERYTHING is for sale, EVERYTHING is designed to generate a profit, etc.
Standard retail markup is 100%, I thought everyone knew that. I didn't say I wouldn't buy anything that was marked up, that would be impossible.

I have no problem with people making a profit. I think it's a little funny that people slam walmart for making so much profit, but they don't seem to think about how much profit clothing and shoe manufacturers are making from things that cost very little to make. Designer clothing and shoes are a racket. But, again, it's Walmart everyone wants to demonize.

My problem with Converse is, they are not that great of a shoe for $40, which is a lot less than I have seen them going for where I have lived.Maybe
there have been some amazing innovations in the construction I don't know about, but I doubt it. I have seen them for $70 when I was shopping. If I am going to pay $70 or more for tennies, they ought to at least have wide and narrow sizes available, or some other option that tells me they did something to earn $70. Someone's name doesn't deserve the extra cash. Even for $40 I can get a much better shoe elsewhere.

And really, I wouldn't pay extra for anyone's name. I think it's silly.

And, for all the companies who say having to deal with Walmart hurts them there are other companies who say it's good business to deal with Walmart because they reach more customers. The reason Mary Kate and Ashley decided to put their clothing line in Walmart instead of boutiques was because their business manager told them it was a smart business move.
post #251 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leta View Post
This is true. Grocery stores have been doing this forever- these items are called loss leaders. Around here, bacon is a popular one. You can get a pound of bacon for 89c on sale. That is either at or below the store's cost. Another common one is hot dogs- there will be this fantastic price on hot dogs, advertised heavily to get people in the store. Then the store makes up for it on sales of buns, ketchup, mustard, relish, napkins, charcoal briquets, and other stuff that goes along with hot dogs. It's only the smartest fish that come in, buy a lot of what's on sale, and leave.

With WM, they are sooo huge that their entire grocery department functions as a loss leader. They make a very small- like pennies- profit on something like 85% of food items. But people buy enough non-food groceries and general merchandise that they still make a ton of money. The pathetic thing is, 85% of WM food is bullsh!t- overprocessed, overpackaged, unneccesary crap.
In my extremely detailed pricebook, I have found that, when it comes to whole, healthy food items, WM has consistently unbeatable deals on two things only- dried beans and club soda. I want to get a Soda Club machine, if/when that happens, I won't need bottled club soda anymore. As for dried beans, we would have to buy 50# to match WM price per pound. However, we will probably get some of these in trade the next time DH moonlights at the cafe.
So maybe, if I'm lucky, some other store will get it together for WIC items and I'll only go to WM to recycle plastic bags.
See? I knew I loved you, because you know when bacon is a loss leader.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
Standard retail markup is 100%, I thought everyone knew that. I didn't say I wouldn't buy anything that was marked up, that would be impossible.

I have no problem with people making a profit. I think it's a little funny that people slam walmart for making so much profit, but they don't seem to think about how much profit clothing and shoe manufacturers are making from things that cost very little to make. Designer clothing and shoes are a racket. But, again, it's Walmart everyone wants to demonize.

My problem with Converse is, they are not that great of a shoe for $40, which is a lot less than I have seen them going for where I have lived.Maybe
there have been some amazing innovations in the construction I don't know about, but I doubt it. I have seen them for $70 when I was shopping. If I am going to pay $70 or more for tennies, they ought to at least have wide and narrow sizes available, or some other option that tells me they did something to earn $70. Someone's name doesn't deserve the extra cash. Even for $40 I can get a much better shoe elsewhere.

And really, I wouldn't pay extra for anyone's name. I think it's silly.

And, for all the companies who say having to deal with Walmart hurts them there are other companies who say it's good business to deal with Walmart because they reach more customers. The reason Mary Kate and Ashley decided to put their clothing line in Walmart instead of boutiques was because their business manager told them it was a smart business move.
Well, I'm a scientist, not a business person. We routinely pay several hundred dollars for a pipette, so :

I wouldn't pay extra for a NAME, no. But often, those names do offer higher quality. Or they are a vote. When you buy expensive vegan shoes that cost more than a similar pair made of leather, you are making a stand. And the designers/marketers know that, and use it. You also pay more for a Toyota than a Chevy, and the name is definitely part of that. But most Toyota owners would argue that the Toyota is a better car. And they may be right, and at the same time Toyota's marketers are pumping their fists into the air.

I am SO sorry that you have seen Chuck Taylors for SEVENTY dollars. Youch. You are right, they are not that great of a shoe. I think they are cute (the low top ones with prints), but they have NO arch support and aren't that comfy. Definitely not $70 worth of comfy!

Oh, and I wasn't slamming WM for wanting to make a profit. I was just trying to state (not that eloquently) that EVERYONE makes a profit, so I was trying to understand your position of not wanting to shop anywhere where there's a mark-up for a name. (Plus, I will totally pay the extra markup for Taryn Rose shoes (the former doctor who is now a shoe designer) because they are sexy and comfy, so you know where I am coming from)
post #252 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by onelilguysmommy View Post
and what job imn retail doesnt make you take a 'morality' test? every application ive sent in, i had to go through like 30 mins..and i read and comprehend rather fast.. of questions asking if i saw someone stealing, would i do something about it? and if i would steal if i knew i wouldnt get caught, or if i had, or thought it was okay, but wouldnt myself, or other stuff like that...a few didnt have it but at interviews had you sill it out.
well...being that my dh has applied for a million jobs in the past 3yrs, you'd be amazed at how many companys are using quizes like that now. best buy, borders and walgreens come to mind.
post #253 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petersmamma View Post
See? I knew I loved you, because you know when bacon is a loss leader.
Right back at 'cha, mama!

Standard retail markup is 100%? Still? Egad. No wonder there are so many people who are like, "I don't pay retail for anything."

I appreciate all the criticisms of WM. But to be perfectly honest, the reasons I hate to shop there have more to do with crowds, yucky fluorescant lighting, wretched customer service, and the fact that the stores are 100,000 square feet of cheap imported crap when I might consider buying 1000 sq ft worth. Not only that, WM isn't the cheapest for everything. Not even close. Other than the aforementioned beans, pickles, and club soda, the only other stuff I've gotten there that has been significantly cheaper than elsewhere are 1000 bendy straws for 25c, and muffin cups for 50c. Five items. That's it. I've found that most of their prices beat their competitors by a few cents, which frankly is not enough for me tolerate dealing with the disadvantages of shopping there.

I'll continue to go once a month to drop off plastic bags for recycling, use my WIC, and buy those very few things that we get there. But I'll also continue to look for alternatives.
post #254 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petersmamma View Post

I wouldn't pay extra for a NAME, no. But often, those names do offer higher quality. Or they are a vote. When you buy expensive vegan shoes that cost more than a similar pair made of leather, you are making a stand. And the designers/marketers know that, and use it. You also pay more for a Toyota than a Chevy, and the name is definitely part of that. But most Toyota owners would argue that the Toyota is a better car. And they may be right, and at the same time Toyota's marketers are pumping their fists into the air.
I switched to Japanese cars after having 2 Fords that left me stranded several times while still under warranty. One they never could find out what was wrong with it. My brother had similar problems with a different American car. AFAIC, the Japanese kick our butts when it comes to quality cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petersmamma View Post
I am SO sorry that you have seen Chuck Taylors for SEVENTY dollars. Youch. You are right, they are not that great of a shoe. I think they are cute (the low top ones with prints), but they have NO arch support and aren't that comfy. Definitely not $70 worth of comfy!
I have wide flintstone feet, so I have to search for wide shoes that are very hard to find for women. My brother has narrow feet, and apparently shoe manufacturers think all women have tiny narrow feet and all men have big fat ones. I usually have to buy expensive shoes to get the wide option with decent arch support, and it galls me when they want over $50 and don't have at least a couple of wide sizes. If they are making them for cookie cutter feet, they should be charging a cookie cutter price, kwim?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petersmamma View Post
Oh, and I wasn't slamming WM for wanting to make a profit. I was just trying to state (not that eloquently) that EVERYONE makes a profit, so I was trying to understand your position of not wanting to shop anywhere where there's a mark-up for a name. (Plus, I will totally pay the extra markup for Taryn Rose shoes (the former doctor who is now a shoe designer) because they are sexy and comfy, so you know where I am coming from)
I don't mind paying extra for real quality, but so many times you just aren't. You're paying for a name, whether it's the designer or some sports figure. We see it in children running around wearing clothing with various names, as if it somehow makes them better people by somehow being associated with the person on their chest, foot or rear. Why? It doesn't make sense, and it certainly doesn't make good money sense. Well, at least not from the buyer's standpoint.

ETA-no snark taken from your post, btw, just wanted to add that. Some expensive things are worth the money. But so many are just hype.
post #255 of 411
In our area, prices are dependant on sales in other stores, but we went out to our closest supercentre....... their prices were $1 above the local walmarts on the same items! It was a total waste of time apart from the gas that we got 18c cheaper than our towns. We primarily shop at meijers, but I do go to walmart sometimes.
post #256 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
I switched to Japanese cars after having 2 Fords that left me stranded several times while still under warranty. One they never could find out what was wrong with it. My brother had similar problems with a different American car. AFAIC, the Japanese kick our butts when it comes to quality cars.
I love asian cars..... I grew up in new zealand, land of jap imports. I personally don't like the look of fords or GMC's anyway.
post #257 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderwahine View Post
I love asian cars..... I grew up in new zealand, land of jap imports. I personally don't like the look of fords or GMC's anyway.
Of course, by saying that, we're anti American and undermining our economy. :

I think it is an unattractive American trait that we feel entitled to high paying jobs no matter how lousy our work ethic is. I read Rivethead. The book was funny as hell, but if I were paying those guys to build cars, I'd have fired all of them.
post #258 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderwahine View Post
well...being that my dh has applied for a million jobs in the past 3yrs, you'd be amazed at how many companys are using quizes like that now. best buy, borders and walgreens come to mind.
Well, stealing, YEAH! But from what I understood (and remember that I know NOTHING of this subject, as was earlier stated), this man's wife had to take a test about her values and such. Essentially, they were looking for "good Christian values" (which there is nothing wrong with, but what if you are a decent, hard working atheist or Pagan applying for a job?). Also, from what I recall of the article, this man's wife was told she was not allowed to have a second job if she worked at WM. Obviously not the case everywhere, and perhaps I just made it all up, but it sounds like THIS WM, at the very least, is not a desirable place to work.

Oh, and Leta....if you look in the Books area, I am now stalking you! Do-do-do-do (that's the Twilight theme)
post #259 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petersmamma View Post
Well, stealing, YEAH! But from what I understood (and remember that I know NOTHING of this subject, as was earlier stated), this man's wife had to take a test about her values and such. Essentially, they were looking for "good Christian values" (which there is nothing wrong with, but what if you are a decent, hard working atheist or Pagan applying for a job?). Also, from what I recall of the article, this man's wife was told she was not allowed to have a second job if she worked at WM. Obviously not the case everywhere, and perhaps I just made it all up, but it sounds like THIS WM, at the very least, is not a desirable place to work.

Oh, and Leta....if you look in the Books area, I am now stalking you! Do-do-do-do (that's the Twilight theme)
There was a bookstore DH applied to that asked about our church going habits etc. I really don't see a problem with it.....you can simply say you dont attend etc.
post #260 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
Of course, by saying that, we're anti American and undermining our economy. :
thats fine by me, I'm not even american but you are right, its just like the arguement that not supporting the war makes you anti american and not patriotic.
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