Saved $16 but feeling a little guilty - Page 15

[Nature]

Originally Posted by vbactivist

But what makes your 'poverty' more important than anyone elses?

Why do you assume I think my 'poverty' is more important than anyone elses? Because I buy toilet paper? Ya.. sue me.

You know, I don't like a lot of things in this world.. but I cannot change it all. I cannot take on everything. I have to pick and choose or there would be nothing left of myself. Its ignorant of anyone to think that just because a family shops at walmart, that they do nothing in their communities or in their world to try to make it a better place.

[wonderwahine]

what makes my poverty more important than anyone elses?

ummmmmmm the fact that its MY FAMILY! you know, I am leggally bound to provide for my family, I am not legally bound to provide for someones family in china. So I will continue to do what I need to do in order to provide what MY family needs.

[1happymom]

My opinion on this is that Walmart is making maybe $.03 on my box of $.20 crayons. Or maybe they're making nothing on them. Maybe they are "loss leaders" to a point that the store is actually selling them to you for less than they pay for them in order to get you in and buy other things. I shop there every great once in a while and wouldn't mind buying these things there at all but it is not a matter of conscience with me. This is a free country and if people don't like there labor practices they can go work somewhere else.

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by vbactivist

But what makes your 'poverty' more important than anyone elses?

I don't think anyone is saying their poverty is more important than someone else's, but for some folks if shopping at Wal-Mart means their kids get to eat every day of the month versus going hungry in order to make a statement and protect someone else's kids on the other side of the world, I don't see that happening.

Yes, there is a lot of cheap crap at Wal-Mart but not everyone who shops there is buying cheap crap. I have seen people at my local Wal-Mart buying groceries and clearly having to watch every dollar they spend to the point of telling kids they can't have yogurt. A former coworker of mine had 5 kids and the only way she could reasonably feed a family of 7 in our area was shopping at Wal-Mart. In my area the farmers market and a CSA definitely would not have been reasonable to feed a family of that size and the 2 major stores Shaws & Hannaford are quite costly compared to the local Super Wal-Mart.

I beleive we should all care about others but if caring about someone else means my kids go hungry, then I'm gonna be truthful and say it won't happen. :

Shay

[Rainbowbird]

I agree 100%.

Boycotts are a way to vote with your money. I choose to exercise that ability whenever I think it may do a bit of good.

I find it sad that so many on this thread either think boycotts are worthless efforts or else see no reason to do it even if there is a cause that could benefit from it.

Originally Posted by swimswamswum

I think this is another "both and" issue. Boycotts can be effective tools. Look at Apartheid in South Africa. Did it end because all of the whites realized that subjugation and exploitation are moral wrongs? No. It ended largely because of global boycotts. My employer and many others pulled out all investments from any company invested in South Africa. Financial devaluation forced social change.

Furthermore, I think boycotts can be catalysts for social change. They are often educative and informing. The grape boycott in California was also effective at both improving conditions and wages for farm workers as well as educating the general public.

Most boycotts don't take the involvement of everyone to be effective. They're usually effective when a percentage of profit decreases. This can be done both with the actual boycott as well as threats and negative publicity.

In reading many of these responses, I think a lot of this comes down to world views. Some people see themselves as having some power and some control. I couldn't function if I didn't believe this.

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by Rainbowbird

I agree 100%.

Boycotts are a way to vote with your money. I choose to exercise that ability whenever I think it may do a bit of good.

I find it sad that so many on this thread either think boycotts are worthless efforts or else see no reason to do it even if there is a cause that could benefit from it.

I don't think boycotts are worthless at all, its just that I think for some people they may not be in a place where they can boycott certain places like Wal-Mart.

I stopped shopping at Wal-Mart for several years and only went back earlier this year when our income dropped by almost 40%. Even now I still limit how often I shop there but now that I lost my job last month (which means even less income), I do know that I probably will have to shop there this month in order to make my ends meet as far as my grocery budget.

Earlier in this thread I mentioned the fact that not everyone lives in a place with the same options as far as shopping so for some choosing to boycott Wal-Mart isn't a hard choice for others it is. I would love to be back in Chicago where I never went to a Wal-Mart and there numerous shopping options but that's not where I am now.

Shay

[Rainbowbird]

Originally Posted by nantahala

Please don't extrapolate my comments on Wal-Mart the Wal-Mart boycott as I don't try to make a difference or believe in social activism.

Perhaps you'd like to contextualize my comments with some reading on activism and privilege - The Revolution Will Not Be Funded: Beyond the Non-Profit Industrial Complex.

I am not sure why you think that my comments have anything to do with your own personal beliefs regarding social activisim, but they do not.

My comments are an attempt to explain why I believe that participating in boycotts is important to me. I have essentially been told on this thread to leave WalMart alone, they are not at fault, and that boycotting them makes no sense. I am explaining my own views and personal beliefs regarding my decisions, and the facts that led me to it.

That is all.

[Rainbowbird]

Originally Posted by shayinme

I don't think boycotts are worthless at all, its just that I think for some people they may not be in a place where they can boycott certain places like Wal-Mart.

Shay

I know. I did specify several times in my posts that I realized there may be some who really feel they cannot boycott WalMart for financial reasons due to their location and availibility of other options.

For example, the lady in Hawaii who had to either buy milk at Safeway for $8 or WalMart for $4, well, I see her point. Although I would probably greatly reduce my dairy in that case, it might not be an option for her.

My argument is really with the fact that some posters have said that WalMart isn't any different than any other company, doesn't deserve a boycott, boycotts are worthless anyway, etc. Those are the points I have been arguing.

Thank you for your measured and polite responses on this thread.

[klg47]

I am one of those who feel that my little contribution (whether it be to recycling, boycotting, or whatever) doesn't make a difference. I'm glad to be reminded that that is a fatalistic way of thinking and isn't really true

[Rainbowbird]

Originally Posted by nantahala

Perhaps you'd like to contextualize my comments with some reading on activism and privilege - The Revolution Will Not Be Funded: Beyond the Non-Profit Industrial Complex.

This seems like a worthwhile read, but I am not sure how criticism of the Non-Profit Industrial Complex is incompatible with boycotting WalMart.

Boycotting WalMart seems like kind of a grassroots movement by the consumer that might eventually better and empower the lives of the disadvantaged and in fact all of us, no matter what our income.

Could you explain why how this book relates to this discussion?? I am being serious here, since I haven't read the book.

[Petersmamma]

Originally Posted by shayinme

I don't think boycotts are worthless at all, its just that I think for some people they may not be in a place where they can boycott certain places like Wal-Mart.

I stopped shopping at Wal-Mart for several years and only went back earlier this year when our income dropped by almost 40%. Even now I still limit how often I shop there but now that I lost my job last month (which means even less income), I do know that I probably will have to shop there this month in order to make my ends meet as far as my grocery budget.

Earlier in this thread I mentioned the fact that not everyone lives in a place with the same options as far as shopping so for some choosing to boycott Wal-Mart isn't a hard choice for others it is. I would love to be back in Chicago where I never went to a Wal-Mart and there numerous shopping options but that's not where I am now.

Shay

As an example, where I live, they just built ANOTHER WM

Now, there's still no darn GROCERY STORE, but hey! I suppose I can just buy everything I need at WM, right? :

OTOH, when I lived in town, there were NO WM's anywhere. It's really easy to say you won't shop at one when you live in an area with lots of other options, but if you live where I do and gas money is tight, I can definitely understand wanting to only make a 5 min drive and get everything, rather than a 15-20 min drive and going from store to store (this actually doesn't apply to me, since I just stop at the grocery store on my way home, but if I were a SAHM, I think that's what I would do)

I'm just trying to further emphasize that situations are different and sometimes it's really easy to say you would do one thing (and do it!) but if you are in a different situation, you might have to do something that you (or others) do not necessarily like.

I was thinking that the REAL problem (and this, of course, is just my perception) is that some people have to shop at places like WM and DO NOT WANT TO. That's the problem. Obviously, if you don't like WM and you are in a position not to go there, you have no issue. If you like WM and you shop there, still no issue. The problem arises when you DO NOT want to shop somewhere like WM but must.

So, what if the people that this pull tried to soften that up? Try to make it not matter, try to ignore those who say you shouldn't shop there, etc. I fully agree with those saying that their first concern is for their family. Well, I also believe that none of us were put on this planet to change the world. What a job! If you told me that was my job, I'd go back to bed! I think the real solution is to be happy with your choices. If you are not happy with your choices, change them. If you are unable to change them, find a place of peace so that you can be happy with your choices.

I think that if everyone did that, WM would actually see a HUGE increase in profits (as would any other company in this type of love-hate position) because only the people that enjoyed shopping at WM would be shopping there.

But I'm a big hippie-dippie and I truly believe that if we could all find our own happiness without trying to influence others in their pursuit of happiness, life would just be grand.

[nantahala]

Originally Posted by Rainbowbird

I am not sure why you think that my comments have anything to do with your own personal beliefs regarding social activisim, but they do not.

My comments are an attempt to explain why I believe that participating in boycotts is important to me. I have essentially been told on this thread to leave WalMart alone, they are not at fault, and that boycotting them makes no sense. I am explaining my own views and personal beliefs regarding my decisions, and the facts that led me to it.

That is all.

Maybe there was some miscommunication then? I am not against boycotts, I think boycotting can be an effective tactic. My comments are based more on *some* (stressing SOME) folks thinking that they are morally superior because they participate in boycotts and essentially tell people who do no have said privilege to "try harder" yank on those bootstraps a bit. There was thread like this a few years ago when an MDCer took a Yellow Pages search out on another MDCer who said she could get to Wal-Mart and one other store. Ugly, really ugly stuff.

Wal-Mart? Hate 'em. All the power to those who boycott while respecting the dignity and worth of those who CANNOT. :

[BrooklynDoula]

I don't understand how someone could HAVE to shop at Walmart. My mom is low income, very rural and the closest thing is WM but she never goes there. She buys less, grows more, finds local, gets bulk when she is in town, reuses, buys online, goes without something, shares with neighbors, etc. I don't believe anyone is forced to shop there, rather it is a matter of whatr else you can or will do instead.

(Side note to the OP - gas and car maint cost $ also and you said this was anther 10 minutes each way so you saved less than you think. My GFIL has this issue -- he think WM is so cheap so he drives 45 minutes to 'save a lot'

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by MSAX

I don't understand how someone could HAVE to shop at Walmart. My mom is low income, very rural and the closest thing is WM but she never goes there. She buys less, grows more, finds local, gets bulk when she is in town, reuses, buys online, goes without something, shares with neighbors, etc. I don't believe anyone is forced to shop there, rather it is a matter of whatr else you can or will do instead.

(Side note to the OP - gas and car maint cost $ also and you said this was anther 10 minutes each way so you saved less than you think. My GFIL has this issue -- he think WM is so cheap so he drives 45 minutes to 'save a lot'

I live in Hawaii. some retailers will not ship here any way other than UPS. What that means is I might pay $49 to ship a $45 item. Or a $10 item. Not gonna do it.

And, even if that were not the case, I still say if the companies some of you believe are forced to do business with walmart were not making money, they would be out of business. The entire argument that they are hurting so bad they had to take away American jobs is bogus. They took away American jobs to increase their profits and scammed us so we would not blame them.

I am not ignorant of the facts, I don't happen to believe all of the anti-Walmart hype. I don't think they always treat their employees well, but that is true of so many American corporations that I think it's silly to single out any one company. I have personally worked for several companies that routinely treat their employees like crap and provide lousy (or no) benefits.
No matter where you shop, if you try to buy American made goods, it is difficult and time consuming. In some cases, like my own experience with automobiles, it isn't worth the trouble because the products are inferior. YMMV.

We disagree. We are not ignorant. We are not uncaring. We simply don't buy the argument that Walmart is destroying our economy, or is responsible for the health care crisis. I don't look down on you for thinking you're doing the right thing, but please don't look down on me for my opinion either. The attitude that is coming across in the posts is still condescending.

AFAIC, this is no different than being on opposite sides of political arguments. I don't feel sorry for people with opposing political views, we just disagree.

Why can't it be the same with this? Is it really necessary for people to continue implying that we don't care about child labor, or poverty, or health care benefits? Puh-leeze. :

[Nature]

Originally Posted by MSAX

I don't understand how someone could HAVE to shop at Walmart. My mom is low income, very rural and the closest thing is WM but she never goes there. She buys less, grows more, finds local, gets bulk when she is in town, reuses, buys online, goes without something, shares with neighbors, etc. I don't believe anyone is forced to shop there, rather it is a matter of whatr else you can or will do instead.

(Side note to the OP - gas and car maint cost $ also and you said this was anther 10 minutes each way so you saved less than you think. My GFIL has this issue -- he think WM is so cheap so he drives 45 minutes to 'save a lot'

Well, I know my fair share of going without something. And I can assure you there is no place for me to grow anything in this third floor apartment with no yard, save for the mint plant I have in the window. Sharing with neighbors? I'm lucky if ours aren't stealing our things, throwing beer bottles at us, or calling the police and CPS on us to be cruel. I highly doubt there is any chance of sharing among us. Buying online can only save so much when you factor in shipping charges and the time it takes to ship something.

Yet walmart is only a 2 minute drive away from us. And when we had very little gas and had no choice... we walked the 5 miles there with three kids in tow in the 95 degree heat. (sounds like a story my grandma used to tell )

Everyones reality is different. And ours is different than your moms.

[vbactivist]

Originally Posted by wonderwahine

I'm sorry, but thats BS. There are plenty of expensive products that are using child slave labor, and have been for years. Eg elizabeth arden.

I don't use elizabeth arden either.

[nantahala]

Originally Posted by Nature

Everyones reality is different. And ours is different than your moms.

Mama, using the Earth Logic, now don't bust out the Earth Logic.

You shouldn't have to explain yourself to anyone; one would expect an AP/MDC mama is doing what she can with what she has. Benefit of the doubt? Trust? Believing people when they tell you they are doing the best they can? I guess that's no longer in style.

[BrooklynDoula]

Originally Posted by Nature

Well, I know my fair share of going without something. And I can assure you there is no place for me to grow anything in this third floor apartment with no yard, save for the mint plant I have in the window. Sharing with neighbors? I'm lucky if ours aren't stealing our things, throwing beer bottles at us, or calling the police and CPS on us to be cruel. I highly doubt there is any chance of sharing among us. Buying online can only save so much when you factor in shipping charges and the time it takes to ship something.

Yet walmart is only a 2 minute drive away from us. And when we had very little gas and had no choice... we walked the 5 miles there with three kids in tow in the 95 degree heat. (sounds like a story my grandma used to tell )

Everyones reality is different. And ours is different than your moms.

I never suggested her reality was anyone else's (iy is not mine, for sure because i live in nyc where we are fighting to stay wm free), simply told her story and stated my belief that evertone can do without wm

[nantahala]

Originally Posted by MSAX

I never suggested her reality was anyone else's (iy is not mine, for sure because i live in nyc where we are fighting to stay wm free), simply told her story and stated my belief that evertone can do without wm

When use words like "everyone" and then you know right from this thread that there are people telling you differently... well, you are not hearing them or what? They're liars? They don't exist, they're not part of "everyone"? OR you're taking your reality, made up your values and experiences, and superimposing them on other people with ALL or NOTHING statements; further, coupled with the context of this thread, that WM is evil (and I do agree) that anyone who does not walk on water or sprout wings to fly somewhere else to shop fails at life. Ok, I admit to the hyperbole at the end but gimme a Kit-Kat bar already!

[Rainbowbird]

Originally Posted by nantahala

Please don't extrapolate my comments on Wal-Mart the Wal-Mart boycott as I don't try to make a difference or believe in social activism.

Perhaps you'd like to contextualize my comments with some reading on activism and privilege - The Revolution Will Not Be Funded: Beyond the Non-Profit Industrial Complex.

Hi, Nantahala,

This is my post that you responded to with the above comments:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowbird
Sorry, I will go with making a difference where I can. And if that means a boycott, that is what I will do with my money.

I think it's sad that you don't think it is important to try to make a difference. Boycotts can work and even if WalMart is not the only evil company in the world, at least I am making a small dent in their practices with my hard-earned money.

And could we all please remember that this thread is about WalMart, after all? So if someone is saying Wal-Mart is bad, good, or indifferent, those are all relevant parts of the thread. For Heaven's sake!

So maybe you wrote back to me by mistake? At any rate no hard feelings and thanks for the link to the book.