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Saved $16 but feeling a little guilty - Page 17

post #321 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
THere are poor people all over the world living without walmart. The difference is, they make due with less stuff/junk. And no, toilet paper is not junk, but most people are not just buying toilet paper at walmart.

Its so frustrating that so many people don't understand how walmart perpetuates the cycle of poverty in the communities they are in
And decide that even if they do understand, it's not a problem they care to address, even if able to. :
post #322 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowbird View Post
And decide that even if they do understand, it's not a problem they care to address, even if able to. :
We understand what you think, but you are wrong.
You can keep the pitying tone up for days on end, but you will not change our minds, and you will not change the facts.

The problem is not Walmart. The problem is your government and greedy manufacturers who lie. If all those companies were losing money they would be out of business. They chose to gain larger profits by moving their factories elsewhere.

I'm not trying to be rude, but really, that argument is laughable. Nobody forced those companies to do business with Walmart. I'm : for a different reason.
post #323 of 411
Bigeyes, isn't the government composed of its citizens? I agree that certain policies (like NAFTA) have had major impacts on our economy and the availability of jobs, but these policies and those who implemented them were supported by the majority of voting citizens (except for cases of voter fraud).

I feel strongly that we as citizens have an obligation to create the changes we want.
post #324 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
We understand what you think, but you are wrong.
You can keep the pitying tone up for days on end, but you will not change our minds, and you will not change the facts.

The problem is not Walmart. The problem is your government and greedy manufacturers who lie. If all those companies were losing money they would be out of business. They chose to gain larger profits by moving their factories elsewhere.

I'm not trying to be rude, but really, that argument is laughable. Nobody forced those companies to do business with Walmart. I'm : for a different reason.
My tone is not pitying. Is yours defensive? It sounds it, making me wonder if you are truly at peace with your decisions. Whether you are or not is certainly your business, but don't insult others to bolster your argument.

Blatantly calling me "wrong" and my opinions "laughable" will not give your arguments more credibility.

And deflecting the criticism about WalMart to the government, which is certainly a whole other kettle of fish to fry, is just a tactic to avoid the issue: WalMart's shady, unsavory, and unethical business practices.

Do you really expect to convince others that WalMart is a poor victim? Really, this company that earns 10 BILLION in profits annually is somehow a victim? Talk about laughable!

Our government's problems are one thing. They don't excuse WalMart's.
post #325 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimswamswum View Post
Bigeyes, isn't the government composed of its citizens? I agree that certain policies (like NAFTA) have had major impacts on our economy and the availability of jobs, but these policies and those who implemented them were supported by the majority of voting citizens (except for cases of voter fraud).

I feel strongly that we as citizens have an obligation to create the changes we want.
I agree, but when was the last time your representative voted the way you wanted? I write mine all the time. I watch them on tv not showing up for work. I saw an election where people were turned away from the polls and the supreme court appointed a president.

So no, I don't think our government is composed of its citizens. I think there is way too much corruption in our government and we're so busy coming up with things for the little guy to do like chasing our tails looking for other places to shop we don't spend our time watching them. As I said before, why the hell was there a read the bills act? Aren't they supposed to know what they are voting for? Why are we blaming Walmart for the health care crisis when years ago people were trying to get national health care and it was defeated because the public just plain didn't like Hillary Clinton?

We've all repeated ourselves many times. The difference is one side says the other side is uncaring or too obtuse to understand, and I say the other side is mistaken in believing that Walmart is to blame. We do care about poverty, we don't think Walmart is to blame. We are not too dumb to get it, we don't think your reasoning is sound. I'm not saying anyone is dumb, I'm saying they did not factor in certain things. Like, why would any company agree to do business with Walmart if it was not going to be profitable? If it isn't profitable, why are they still in business? It doesn't make sense. And, if they put companies out of business, why do some companies clamor to do business with Walmart? Again, it doesn't make sense.

Until we call for a boycott of all companies who outsource, it makes no sense to pick on walmart. Until we boycott all companies who don't offer affordable insurance for employees, it makes no sense to pick on walmart. When you do this, you are causing hardship for the people who can least afford it. Most poor people cannot afford to boycott the city bus, for example. But when I drove the city bus, there were many of us who could not afford our insurance. Now, if you tell me that wouldn't make sense, I would agree. For the single mom I picked up every day who couldn't afford a car, it would not make sense to boycott just because of their insurance being unaffordable. It was not her responsiblity to boycott on my behalf, and I would not expect her to.

How can anyone call Walmart a bully when the reasons for boycotting don't work across the board for all other businesses? Does everyone who boycotts Walmart research the background of each and every business they use? If not, why not? Who is the real bully here?
post #326 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowbird View Post
My tone is not pitying. Is yours defensive? It sounds it, making me wonder if you are truly at peace with your decisions. Whether you are or not is certainly your business, but don't insult others to bolster your argument.

Blatantly calling me "wrong" and my opinions "laughable" will not give your arguments more credibility.

And deflecting the criticism about WalMart to the government, which is certainly a whole other kettle of fish to fry, is just a tactic to avoid the issue: WalMart's shady, unsavory, and unethical business practices.

Do you really expect to convince others that WalMart is a poor victim? Really, this company that earns 10 BILLION in profits annually is somehow a victim? Talk about laughable!

Our government's problems are one thing. They don't excuse WalMart's.
I'm sorry if you think I was insulting. I used wrong, but I didn't insult your intelligence. You have repeatedly said I didn't understand, which is insulting.
I am not deflecting, I am saying they are not as shady as you make them out to be. I think all big business is kind of shady, and our government gives big business many ways to keep getting richer while the middle class shrinks and the ranks of the poor grow.

I don't think Walmart is a victim, I just think people are being misdirected. I don't think your boycotts even affect them. I do think the boycotts keep you busy so you don't notice what your government is doing.

Any big business is going to try to maximize profit while minimizing their expenses. I have yet to work for any company that I believed when they said we care. So no, I don't love Walmart, and I don't think they are a victim. But I do think the people who have been tricked into believing a boycott empowers them are misguided. Not bad people, not stupid, not arrogant. Just misguided, and sadly, wrong. I'm sorry if you think that is insulting, but I don't know how to be any more polite while disagreeing with you. I believe you are wrong. Apparently you think I am too.
post #327 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
I don't think Walmart is a victim, I just think people are being misdirected. I don't think your boycotts even affect them. I do think the boycotts keep you busy so you don't notice what your government is doing.

But I do think the people who have been tricked into believing a boycott empowers them are misguided. Not bad people, not stupid, not arrogant. Just misguided, and sadly, wrong. I'm sorry if you think that is insulting, but I don't know how to be any more polite while disagreeing with you. I believe you are wrong. Apparently you think I am too.
I accept and thank you for the apology.

Boycotts can work, as evidenced by many events, inc. the ones that a pp mentioned. Apartheid in South Africa being one of the biggest.

Why do you think I don't notice what my government is doing? We discussed in other posts our concerns about the gov't., as well. I feel that I am extremely well-informed and get my news from many sources ( and that does NOT include Faux News (excuse me, Fox News ). I vote, I write my congressmen, and my husband and I have been involved in various committees and so forth from grassroots on up. So I don't feel that my head is in the sand regarding our government's behavior one way or the other.

I believe you and I are arguing about more than just WalMart here. I feel my spending choices empower me; you don't feel that yours do, I guess?

I suspect we've said all there is to be said here. Amen!
post #328 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowbird View Post
I accept and thank you for the apology.

Boycotts can work, as evidenced by many events, inc. the ones that a pp mentioned. Apartheid in South Africa being one of the biggest.



I believe you and I are arguing about more than just WalMart here. I feel my spending choices empower me; you don't feel that yours do, I guess?

I suspect we've said all there is to be said here. Amen!
I agree with you about S. Africa, but I don't think boycotting Walmart would empower me. If I could magically get our country to stop letting American corporations take their factories out of the country, that would make me feel empowered. Since I don't feel like our reps really listen to us, I don't see that happening.

When I first boycotted Nike I felt empowered, but when I saw the poorest people in my hometown spending money on their products it kinda took the wind out of my sails.

I wish I felt like it made a difference, but I really haven't seen it to be so.

I'll make you a deal though. I'll let you know the first time I hear back from my rep if you'll do the same. Deal? I'll continue to read the articles and do the research and I'll let you know if I see any compelling evidence that changes my opinion. Ok?

And you are still coming off like I should feel guilty for my choice, and I don't. Smoke and mirrors.
post #329 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowbird View Post
I feel at bit sick to my stomach right now, reading this makes me wonder if you are actually trying to incite more argument or if you are just proud to be polluting the environment and completely turning a blind eye to everything that has been discussed here.

Honestly, no I'm not trying to incite anything. My point is just because I don't agree with your belief system and chose to shop somewhere that you find unacceptable isn't really your's or anyone's business. You've said many times you're not trying to be judgmental or insulting, but I don't see that at all. I see that you're full of your own self righteousness about how everyone should be living. It's really about choice, you made your choices and I'm making mine. That doesn't make you better or more right than me. It just means you're trying to live your life and I'm living mine.

You've posted multiple times that people don't understand or get it or care. That's insulting and what I think you don't understand or get or care is that just as you want others to accept your views you have to be open to accept their's.
post #330 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
Ty! I can't believe someone would post such rubbish on a nfl site.

If that isn't the biggest load of pot stirring I;ve seen in a long time.

Well...whether or not YOU feel I'm NFL enough to post that on this site is really irrelevant. I just reread the mission statement for MDC that can be found under "About MDC" (you should check it out sometimes) because I'm still so stunned by the lack of acceptance and support in this thread. But, after reading it I feel doubly assured that MDC is still the place I always thought it was.
post #331 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrinat View Post
Well...whether or not YOU feel I'm NFL enough to post that on this site is really irrelevant. I just reread the mission statement for MDC that can be found under "About MDC" (you should check it out sometimed) because I'm still so stunned be the lack of acceptance and support in this thread. But, after reading it I feel doubly assured that MDC is still the place I always thought it was.
That brings to mind an interesting question. Just how natural do I have to be? Do I have to make or grow all of my own food? Am I allowed to drive a vehicle at all, or just ride a bicycle? Is makeup prohibited?

Maybe those electronic cash registers are a little too high tech to be considered natural.

But then, if we take that line of reasoning too far, none of us would be here, since computers and the internet aren't exactly natural.

I agree with you. Those of us who don't swallow the evil empire theory are pretty much being told we are not crunchy enough to voice our opinions. Or worse, that we must really feel bad about our choices or we wouldn't be defending them. Of course, the other side is merely speaking their minds. :

Again I am forced to ask the question, why is it that we can't just agree that we disagree without all the assumptions?
post #332 of 411
Bigeyes,
Thank you for your post. I couldn't agree more. It does remind me of the occasional "Crunchier than thou" threads that pop up.
I'm not asking anyone that doesn't want to shop at W. or drive a big car to do so, just respect that I'm a well educated mature adult and if I chose to do so, it's my own deliberate choice. I don't need anyone's pity, nor do I need someone to educate me on the plight of the worlds masses because of the evil empire. I just need to be respected as a human being free to do what I want without being condescended to.
post #333 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrinat View Post
Bigeyes,
Thank you for your post. I couldn't agree more. It does remind me of the occasional "Crunchier than thou" threads that pop up.
I'm not asking anyone that doesn't want to shop at W. or drive a big car to do so, just respect that I'm a well educated mature adult and if I chose to do so, it's my own deliberate choice. I don't need anyone's pity, nor do I need someone to educate me on the plight of the worlds masses because of the evil empire. I just need to be respected as a human being free to do what I want without being condescended to.
: well said
post #334 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrinat View Post
Bigeyes,
Thank you for your post. I couldn't agree more. It does remind me of the occasional "Crunchier than thou" threads that pop up.
I'm not asking anyone that doesn't want to shop at W. or drive a big car to do so, just respect that I'm a well educated mature adult and if I chose to do so, it's my own deliberate choice. I don't need anyone's pity, nor do I need someone to educate me on the plight of the worlds masses because of the evil empire. I just need to be respected as a human being free to do what I want without being condescended to.
When you make personal choices that effect the environment and effect the lives of others and brag that you are unapologetic about them, you are more than likely going to get responses that you don't like on a NATURAL FAMILY LIVING board.
post #335 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
When you make personal choices that effect the environment and effect the lives of others and brag that you are unapologetic about them, you are more than likely going to get responses that you don't like on a NATURAL FAMILY LIVING board.
I'm curious. What do people drive when they have more than 4 children?
post #336 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
I'm curious. What do people drive when they have more than 4 children?
don't you know already?? they all ride bikes connected to each other and the baby is in the little babe bike stroller thing!! its a curious sight! kinda like the old bikes that 4 people used to ride!
I know what you mean though mama.
post #337 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderwahine View Post
don't you know already?? they all ride bikes connected to each other and the baby is in the little babe bike stroller thing!! its a curious sight! kinda like the old bikes that 4 people used to ride!
I know what you mean though mama.
Don't forget the Walmart Sux sticker on the back of the stroller thingy.
post #338 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
When you make personal choices that effect the environment and effect the lives of others and brag that you are unapologetic about them, you are more than likely going to get responses that you don't like on a NATURAL FAMILY LIVING board.

I must correct you. I wasn't bragging, I was sharing my reality with you. The reality that you feel I should be apologizing for. I have a larger family, so I drive a car that fits us all. I shouldn't have to feel bad about that and I don't. What you don't seem to understand is that I'm so secure in my own beliefs just as you probably are in yours that I'm able to read your comments and not take them personally. I'm just joining in the conversation and sharing my prospective like everyone else. I don't know you from Eve, your opinion isn't going to keep me awake at night, any snarky comments won't stop me from logging on and seeing what's going on in the MDC
But again, the judgmentalness is just unbelievable. When did you get to decide what responses are appropriate on this board?
post #339 of 411
You know why people drive big cars now? Three reasons: 1. Ego,
2. Seatbelt Laws, 3. Carseats.

1. I think that people who drive SUVs to be cool are the antithesis of cool. For example, my friend's sister. Sarah and her girlfriend, Sarah ( ) each drive Hummers. Sarah 1 has a black one, Sarah 2 has a white one. They neither have nor want kids. Not that there's any reason for a Hummer, anyway, but TWO?!! For a family of two? Come on!

2. My mom's family has 5 kids in it. Her uncle's has 6 kids. When she was growing up, when all 11 kids and both moms were going somewhere, you know what vehicle they took? The pickup truck. The kids in the bed, the moms and the littlest kids in the cab.

They don't even MAKE a station wagon with a third seat anymore. Volvo was the last company to make one, Buick was the last U.S. manufacturer. Those models have been out of production for about 10 years.

3. I drive a Bonneville (which is a great car, BTW). Theorhetically, it seats six people. This would work if we put a little, carseatless kid in the middle between DH and I. That is unsafe, so of course it does not work. With two car seats in the back, the Bonneville seats four, not six.

I was lusting after the Britaxes in Target the other day, and man are they HUGE. Our other car is a Toyota Corrola. We could only fit one Britax in the back of that, and probably no one else would fit back there once it was installed.

My friend, whose husband works for Ford, drives an Explorer with a third row seat. You know how many car seats we fit in that thing? Four. Plus room for two adults. In a Suburban you can fit six or seven car seats, plus room for at least two adults.

Before we have another child, DH and I are planning on buying a minivan. Not the gas guzzler that an SUV is, but a big car nonetheless. I know that SUVs were all kinds of stylish there for a decade, but people really do have legitimate reasons for buying big cars.

Or, for that matter, for shopping at Wal Mart.
post #340 of 411
This thread has made me decide to stop shopping at Walmart again. I don't need their crap, and I certainly don't want to give them a reason to move to my town. I am "poor", but I definitely spend more in life just by going there. You don't save $5/trip if you bought $10 extra, you know?
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