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Saved $16 but feeling a little guilty - Page 18

post #341 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
When you make personal choices that effect the environment and effect the lives of others and brag that you are unapologetic about them, you are more than likely going to get responses that you don't like on a NATURAL FAMILY LIVING board.
Word.
post #342 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrinat View Post
I must correct you. I wasn't bragging, I was sharing my reality with you. The reality that you feel I should be apologizing for. I have a larger family, so I drive a car that fits us all. I shouldn't have to feel bad about that and I don't. What you don't seem to understand is that I'm so secure in my own beliefs just as you probably are in yours that I'm able to read your comments and not take them personally. I'm just joining in the conversation and sharing my prospective like everyone else. I don't know you from Eve, your opinion isn't going to keep me awake at night, any snarky comments won't stop me from logging on and seeing what's going on in the MDC
But again, the judgmentalness is just unbelievable. When did you get to decide what responses are appropriate on this board?


Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said your should apologize for having a large vehicle, I never said you were bragging that you had a large vehicle. What I said was When you make personal choices that effect the environment and effect the lives of others and brag that you are unapologetic about them, you are more than likely going to get responses that you don't like on a NATURAL FAMILY LIVING board. Very different.
post #343 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
Please do not put words in my mouth. I never said your should apologize for having a large vehicle, I never said you were bragging that you had a large vehicle. What I said was When you make personal choices that effect the environment and effect the lives of others and brag that you are unapologetic about them, you are more than likely going to get responses that you don't like on a NATURAL FAMILY LIVING board. Very different.

Let's just accept that we don't agree. You think I put words in your mouth, I think you misunderstand me. Live and let live.
post #344 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrinat View Post
Let's just accept that we don't agree. You think I put words in your mouth, I think you misunderstand me. Live and let live.
your exact words were The reality that you feel I should be apologizing for. I never said that. So yes you put words in my mouth, or at the least assumed I felt some way I don't. No misunderstanding about that.
post #345 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
your exact words were The reality that you feel I should be apologizing for. I never said that. So yes you put words in my mouth, or at the least assumed I felt some way I don't. No misunderstanding about that.

Uh huh. I'm not sure what you're wanting me to say exactly. We don't agree. Bolding statements doesn't really change that we do indeed have a failure to communicate. Be it the medium or our personalities. I still feel that I was not bragging or being unapologetic (since I guess I would need to have something to apologize for first) and you still feel I've put words in your mouth. I'm a mama who's trying to do the best for her family and I imagine your are too, that's what's really important here, honestly.
post #346 of 411
I'm just asking that you not put words in my mouth. I never said you should apologize for anything you said I did. That is all.
post #347 of 411
Um. I stated facts that I had researched about WalMart and what I believed to be true about them.

I stated several times that I understood that some people may not have a choice to go elsewhere all the time.

I am not sure how that adds up to be judgmental. That is purely your perception, and you have to own it. It's not mine. Nowhere did I criticise people who shop at WalMart. I criticised WalMart, and that is very different. At least I'm not making personal comments like "you're full of your own self-righteousness" which is what you said to me. I shared opinions and research. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean I'm judging you. Debate does require an exchange of opinions, but it doesn't require insults such as you are posting.

Your post certainly sounded as if you were proud of driving what is known to be a vehicle that is very bad for our Earth, which I find to be somewhat offensive, to say the least, esp. on a natural family living board.

I'm sorry if hearing facts about WalMart makes you feel judged. I can't tell you what to do, I can only write about what I have learned. Sorry if reading about it makes you feel badly. It's not my intent but I'm not going to gloss over the facts regarding WalMart's business practices to make everybody feel warm and fuzzy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrinat View Post
Honestly, no I'm not trying to incite anything. My point is just because I don't agree with your belief system and chose to shop somewhere that you find unacceptable isn't really your's or anyone's business. You've said many times you're not trying to be judgmental or insulting, but I don't see that at all. I see that you're full of your own self righteousness about how everyone should be living. It's really about choice, you made your choices and I'm making mine. That doesn't make you better or more right than me. It just means you're trying to live your life and I'm living mine.

You've posted multiple times that people don't understand or get it or care. That's insulting and what I think you don't understand or get or care is that just as you want others to accept your views you have to be open to accept their's.
post #348 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by loitering View Post
This thread has made me decide to stop shopping at Walmart again. I don't need their crap, and I certainly don't want to give them a reason to move to my town. I am "poor", but I definitely spend more in life just by going there. You don't save $5/trip if you bought $10 extra, you know?
That is great!

I think another underlying theme of this thread is how much allegiance we feel to other people's families, and the future of our own children and other people's children. I think it is short-sighted to view WalMart as a solution to current economic problems. Because I have a choice to shop elsewhere, I do. I could save a lot of money shopping at WalMart--maybe enough to go on a better vacation, save more or a car when this one dies, take a night class, etc. I would rather save in other ways than to buy from them, though.

I choose not to shop there because I think it MIGHT be helping the economy of my community, which helps others, not just myself and my own family.

It's like my feeling about public education. I am a teacher and so is my husband, and so was my mother. I feel strongly in the importance of public education, but it will always bother me to no end that public education isn't equal. We live in a higher-income town with good schools. Why should my kids get to go to a good school because we have the money to live here? Are they more deserving than the kids in the next town over, who have a falling-down school, outdated books, and no computers because they're over the town line?

KWIM? I just detest the inequality of things...I don't see WalMart as evening things out or helping the poor. In the long run they are only contributing to poverty. So I choose not to support that.
post #349 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowbird View Post
I just detest the inequality of things...I don't see WalMart as evening things out or helping the poor. In the long run they are only contributing to poverty. So I choose not to support that.
I think you are absolutely right.
post #350 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
I think you are absolutely right.
Thanks, I'm glad. This thread has had me scratching my head at times and wondering if I am really on MDC!:
post #351 of 411
Just because we believe differently than you does not make us less worthy to be on MDC, you are not the morality pole we are all measured by. Nowhere on the site does it say you must be anti walmart to be on mdc.
post #352 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowbird View Post
I feel at bit sick to my stomach right now, reading this makes me wonder if you are actually trying to incite more argument or if you are just proud to be polluting the environment and completely turning a blind eye to everything that has been discussed here.

I guess it was statements like this that had me thinking there was some judgment in there somewhere. But if you say there wasn't, then fine.
I think NFL/AP encompasses a spectrum of behaviors, it's not a checklist. Maybe I subscribe to certain behaviors and not others, like many others I know.
post #353 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowbird View Post
Thanks, I'm glad. This thread has had me scratching my head at times and wondering if I am really on MDC!:
Oh many of us who believe in making the world a better place are still here.
post #354 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderwahine View Post
Just because we believe differently than you does not make us less worthy to be on MDC, you are not the morality pole we are all measured by. Nowhere on the site does it say you must be anti walmart to be on mdc.
I'm not talking about worthiness or morality, which are very subjective variables. I'm talking about compatibility with an NFL site. There are other sites out there that may promote or condone WalMart, SUVs, and the like.

I don't believe MDC is one of them.

If you read the actual Mothering publication, I think you'll agree that the vibe is quite alternative and I sincerely doubt one would ever see an ad or article promoting WalMart or SUVs. I mean, can you imagine? So you can see why that sort of commentary isn't always very well-received here.
post #355 of 411
Some of the posts on this thread remind me of that Lily Tomlin quote, some one here uses for a signature.

I used to think, "Someone should do something about that." and then I realized, I was someone.
post #356 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrinat View Post
I guess it was statements like this that had me thinking there was some judgment in there somewhere. But if you say there wasn't, then fine.
I think NFL/AP encompasses a spectrum of behaviors, it's not a checklist. Maybe I subscribe to certain behaviors and not others, like many others I know.
OK.

You're absolutely right, there is a spectrum concerning natural living and AP. It is sometimes hard to define. But in general topics like WalMart, SUVs, consciously choosing formula-feeding etc. tend to raise eyebrows and generate debate.

Of course not everyone who does one or all of the above is a bad person. I'll edit this to say, even someone who DID do all of those things isn't bad. Misinformed, thoughtless, not inclined to think globally or green, okay..... We don't know everyone's story. I think it's the comments like "I won't apologize for driving a big a$s SUV" or people just defending places like WalMart who really could afford to go somewhere else that tend to spark the controversy.

Now if you had said, "I can't apologize for driving my SUV because I need it for my 6 kids" or "I have a horse trailer to pull", I'd have thought, well, there are still better/other options. (Maybe not for the horse trailer, I have no idea how much horsepower it takes to pull a horse trailer) but I doubt I'd have felt so shocked at the comment.

Yes, it's a free country. You're free to drive an SUV, shop at WalMart, and do a million other things that might raise eyebrows here. The point is that the culture of MDC is somewhat alternative and so yeah, you're going to get some backlash if you sound as if you are promoting or proud of that type of thing. KWIM?
post #357 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
Some of the posts on this thread remind me of that Lily Tomlin quote, some one here uses for a signature.

I used to think, "Someone should do something about that." and then I realized, I was someone.
Love it!
post #358 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowbird View Post
Of course not everyone who does one or all of the above is a bad person. I'll edit this to say, even someone who DID do all of those things isn't bad. Misinformed, thoughtless, not inclined to think globally or green, okay..... We don't know everyone's story. I think it's the comments like "I won't apologize for driving a big a$s SUV" or people just defending places like WalMart who really could afford to go somewhere else that tend to spark the controversy.
Well, that's not exactly what I've said. You've combined several post into one interpretation, but that's fine, we all do that from time to time. I do drive an SUV.

Quote:
Yes, it's a free country. You're free to drive an SUV, shop at WalMart, and do a million other things that might raise eyebrows here. The point is that the culture of MDC is somewhat alternative and so yeah, you're going to get some backlash if you sound as if you are promoting or proud of that type of thing. KWIM?

Now see, I don't know what you mean because what I thought MDC was about something completely different. I thought it was about being an individual, tolerance, about acceptance, about freedom to make choices that maybe ARE against the grain. A place of support, where differences are celebrated and even if we don't make the same choices on every issue, we can both still respect that we are the stewards of our children's lives and maybe, just maybe we're making the choices we feel are best. I thought it was a place that you didn't have to sign in at the door and conform to a set of rules. That you were leaving the criticism of the mainstreaming world behind and entering a domain where you could be you.

You don't know how I chose to give to the world at large, you don't know whether or not I go every day and sit and hold crack addicted babies, volunteer at a homeless shelter, work as a GAL for women and children, you just know that I chose to shop at Walmart and that I must not be as politically and socially astute as you.

But that's ok, I don't think you're bad either.
post #359 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowbird View Post
Um. I stated facts that I had researched about WalMart and what I believed to be true about them.

I stated several times that I understood that some people may not have a choice to go elsewhere all the time.

I am not sure how that adds up to be judgmental. That is purely your perception, and you have to own it. It's not mine. Nowhere did I criticise people who shop at WalMart. I criticised WalMart, and that is very different. At least I'm not making personal comments like "you're full of your own self-righteousness" which is what you said to me. I shared opinions and research. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean I'm judging you. Debate does require an exchange of opinions, but it doesn't require insults such as you are posting.
What several of us have repeatedly said is we are also sharing our opinions and we don't agree. All we are asking is that you give us the same respect for our viewpoint that you are demanding for yours.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbowbird View Post
I'm sorry if hearing facts about WalMart makes you feel judged. I can't tell you what to do, I can only write about what I have learned. Sorry if reading about it makes you feel badly. It's not my intent but I'm not going to gloss over the facts regarding WalMart's business practices to make everybody feel warm and fuzzy.
The issue is that we don't agree with your facts. I happen to know that any business that is in bed with Walmart is not losing money year after year or they would be out of business. I know that Mary Kate and Ashley courted Walmart because of the national exposure their products got by being in Walmart stores. I also know that because of NAFTA, Dazey moved their factories out of the US and my brother was laid off, but because of this he was allowed to collect unemployment while he attended trade school paid for by the government under a retraining program connected with NAFTA. He now has a skill and a much better paying job, so by moving their factory out of the country in a weird roundabout way they did improve the economy for the people who took advantage of the retraining program.

There are 2 sides to every story, and your side is not the only one. We disagree, period. It would be really nice if instead of continuing to insist that we are all uncaring or uninformed, you could just accept that we only disagree. I know you believe in what you are saying, why can't you just accept that I have as much conviction as you do?
post #360 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
What several of us have repeatedly said is we are also sharing our opinions and we don't agree. All we are asking is that you give us the same respect for our viewpoint that you are demanding for yours.

I am not the only one here who feels this way, BigEyes. Why do you single me out?

Frankly, I think my discourse has been a lot more respectful and professional than much of the insults and snide comments that have been thrown around here. Not necessarily by you personally, but there have def. been some personal comments made. Also, I never said, nor do I feel that "all of you" (can you really speak for the whole group?) are caring or uninformed. That's a gross generalization.

There wouldn't be much point in a debate if I agreed with your viewpoint, and only agreed that we disagreed. It's just not how I feel. And while I can *respect* SOME of the viewpoints posted here, I certainly can't respect all of them, some of which have been so blatantly rude, personalized, and snarky, for want of a better word. But nowhere have I insulted anyone, called them a name, or personalized a comment to where someone would actually be insulted. I wonder why you aren't concerned about some of the really rude comments that have been made? Is that because they are coming from people who happen to agree with you?

I am not sure why you keep coming back at me and poking me with a stick, BigEyes. We've had a few go-rounds and seem to have come to the conclusion that we agree on many things. The posts you are referring to had nothing to do with anything you said, they were in response to some specific comments by another poster.
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