Saved $16 but feeling a little guilty - Page 20

[sabrinat]

Originally Posted by kijip

My post specifically was addressing those with 1-2 kids and also dispelling the notion that only 1 car seat fits in a compact car. Very, very few families have more than 2 car seats it seems yet many have an SUV because it is "needed" because they have kids.

I have 5 kids to cart around from time to time now and there is nothing that would work for us but a minivan in our situation. (3 across the back, a booster in 1 captains chair and a 12 year old in another).

I am not going to go so far as to say that an SUV is not the right choice for some situations. Lord knows, I have never had to fit a triple stroller in anywhere. But clearly, there are way more SUVs with unused third row seats on the road than are strictly needed. And tons of 5 seater fashion statement SUVs that never leave the city or burbs

Although I quoted you, I wasn't feeling targeted I was just explaining my own car shopping experience and how it was so challenging. I live in the burbs and not only that, a very upperwardly middle class one...I do agree that the majority of SUV drivers I see aren't transporting multiple children or triple strollers

I guess my point in participating in the thread was to say we all make the choices that we have to that support not only our world view, but our life, family and reality. I make tons of choices in my daily life that would fit nicely with even the most hardcore MDC'er and other choices would be considered very mainstream I try to balance and live the best life I can.

[Potty Diva]

Just some personal experiences on the SUVs (and I know families need to do what they need to do- so this is just what I have observed.)

I have a 4-door Toyota Avalon. I can fit three carseats in the back, fairly easily.

I worked at an upscale prescool and there was only one family with an SUV that had more than 2 kids (they had three) and their SUV was HUGE- much larger than what three kids need (you would think) but then they travel, camp, and have many extras that travel with them, so really I guess the SUV is needed.

Most all families had some sort of SUV, and no more than 2 kids.

But now that I mentioned the first family and listed the other stuff they pack in the SUV, they really do need it for traveling (which most of them do- I can't say all because I really don't know).

So I guess we have to remember that SUV's don't just haul families but the junk they need for various activities.

I have one friend with a van and has three kids. IMO vans tip over too easily.

*I saw the post about people shopping at Walmart for financial situation reasons and wanted to respond. I shop at Walmart for their prices and would do so even when our situation improves. We live where the wealthy shop at Walmart too because Walmart is what we have. We actually have two stores Walmart and Food Lion.

No Target, no K-mart, Lowes, Bi-Low, Harris Teeter- none of it. We could drive 30 minutes but then that takes more gas.

[kijip]

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

I have one friend with a van and has three kids. IMO vans tip over too easily.

SUVs have a significantly higher risk of rolling over. Minivans are actually statistically the safest vehicles- still I am not running out for one (when I am ferrying 5 kids, it is a borrowed vehicle from my dad). But it is no great secret that SUVs are more prone to rolling.

[kijip]

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

But now that I mentioned the first family and listed the other stuff they pack in the SUV, they really do need it for traveling (which most of them do- I can't say all because I really don't know).

So I guess we have to remember that SUV's don't just haul families but the junk they need for various activities.

Rare is the family that uses the packing space often enough to make owning the larger car more economical than renting a larger vehicle for specific vacation trips or whatnot. And it is not like activities can only be accomplished in larger cars anyways...camping, hiking, snowboarding, moving back and forth between colleges etc are all things that I have done in a smaller car with a family.

I am not meaning to say that owning an SUV is always a bad choice. Just that is it almost always a choice and not the inevitability that it so often gets made out to be. There are most often other choices that get glossed over.

[2Sweeties1Angel]

I was trying to decide between the Odyssey and the Kia Sedona

Be very happy that you didn't go with the Kia Sedona. I had a 2005 and that thing was a big 'ole pile of crap. It's gone now.

If I ever have another kid, I'm going with some sort of SUV if I can afford it. I will NEVER own another minivan. Of course I don't plan on having any more kids either.

[jtbuko]

Things are getting pretty off-topic from the original walmart question, but I cannot resist chiming in on the car thing...

Originally Posted by kijip

And it is not like activities can only be accomplished in larger cars anyways...camping, hiking, snowboarding, moving back and forth between colleges etc are all things that I have done in a smaller car with a family.
I am not meaning to say that owning an SUV is always a bad choice. Just that is it almost always a choice and not the inevitability that it so often gets made out to be. There are most often other choices that get glossed over.

:

We just got back from a trick in our trusty old subaru wagon:
2 large men (both over 6'3")
1 toddler in rear facing roundabout
1 preschooler in forward facing marathon
me in the back with them.
PLUS one canoe, one kayak, associated gear (paddles, PFDs, safety stuff), cooler, food, recycling, and clothes for a week.)

Our most impressive trip may have been:
those same two large men
me and another woman
toddler in rear facing roundabout
80 lb dog
50 lb dog
all our stuff - mostly in bin on car top rack.

You can put a rack on top of most cars, and you can keep toddlers rear facing past a year if they are small enough - these two factors will really stretch a smaller car.

[Potty Diva]

Jessica- and everyone was comfortable?

The camping trips and such I am referring to are done by people who are gone most of the summer on various trips and such. No SUV's are not needed for most people and I would not own one, but can see (the families I know) really needed the one they have). Again this is just for the dozen or so families I know that I have them.

[KariM]

Just had to chime in to add that another reason to own an SUV is so you can fit the kids and the dogs in *and* pull your camper. We couldn't do that with our Toyota Corolla - just doesn't have a big enough engine.

We could have purchased a full size van with a V6 or V8, but they aren't that much more energy efficient than the Tahoe.

[kijip]

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

Jessica- and everyone was comfortable?

The camping trips and such I am referring to are done by people who are gone most of the summer on various trips and such. No SUV's are not needed for most people and I would not own one, but can see (the families I know) really needed the one they have). Again this is just for the dozen or so families I know that I have them.

Our camping trips have been as long as 7 weeks. (NOT since son ). I know a ton of very active peeps with small cars. As for comfort, not all people demand vast amounts of personal space and "leg room" in the car. We are not short people (I am the shortest, a near midget, at just 5'9"- my mother is a full 6 feet and all legs) and we do fine without a lot of leg room. We are not merely talking about personal decisions here- the choices we make affect each other and our children's future planet. I think that finding alternatives to the largest possible car for routine day to day trips is important (personally for frugality and community wise for obvious reasons) I would be a wealthy woman if I had a dime for every time I see an SUV carrying neither kids nor dogs nor cargo nor towing a thing day in and day out...it is pretty obvious that the driving force behind most SUV sales is not practicality but image and other such concerns. Yes, there will always be someone that needs that SUV for some reason be it 5 kids, 100 pound dogs, towing a trailer of Christmas trees or driving through snow and mountains but there are also those who choose to prioritize other things and stay in cramped compact cars with roof racks even if they can easily afford something larger and even if they have a couple of kids, camp, ski and live in snow. SUVs replaced station wagons and upstaged minivans not because it was the only option- it was simply the choice many people made. All of our cars got bigger as SUVs became popular- an late 80s Camry is comparable in space to a newer Corolla. A 70s Corolla is similar in space to a Echo or something. It all reflects a trend towards bigger, bigger, bigger that aided the growth in demand for SUVs.

[wonderwahine]

not more of the "i can do it, so why can't everyone else" arguements.

[Potty Diva]

kijip- but that is for your family. I could never camp with 3 kids all their stuff and mine, plus camping equipment in a small car. I would be miserable the entire time.

But, we only have one child, aren't having any more and are happy and comfortable in our Toyota.

BUT, I dont think I can say what other people's comfort levels are based on my own.

[Potty Diva]

Oh, I will never buy an SUV, but that is a personal decision.

I think we have to do what we feel we can in regards to the environment, ya know? It's all a balancing act.

[2Sweeties1Angel]

Some of us get extremely claustrophobic and have panic attacks if we're crammed into small spaces.

[jtbuko]

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

Jessica- and everyone was comfortable?.

Yes, we were all pretty comfortable. However DH and BIL would not have been comfortable in the backseat - they would have been miserable. So if I were their size perhaps we would have made different choices about what kind of car we drive...

Originally Posted by wonderwahine

not more of the "i can do it, so why can't everyone else" arguements.

I think the point is not to say why can't everyone else, but to point out that the choice is there. I know there have been issues where I didn't think/feel something was a choice for me, and then someone pointed out that it was and it shed new light on it for me. I understand that everyone has their own set of wants and needs for their vehicle - I know that a smaller car than my wagon would get better mileage, but might not accommodate boats on top, dogs in back, or even fit my tall husband comfortably. There was a comment about balance earlier that was right on -

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

I think we have to do what we feel we can in regards to the environment, ya know? It's all a balancing act.

the trick is to find a way to walk the line between meeting all your needs and some of your wants, while also minimizing your footprint. I think we all need to work on that, and that one way we can work on that is by thinking out of the box and re-evaluating our wants and needs. I think it is good to challenge each other a little with that, and I think that's why I enjoyed this whole discussion.

[avent]

Originally Posted by bigeyes

I am a huge believer in letting my money speak.
For example, I couldn't boycott Disney if I tried. They own everything.
http://www.cjr.org/resources/

I'll come back and read the entire thread later, but I have to say that I looked at the list of what Disney owns and I don't use any of it. I haven't been trying either, I didn't know until just now they owned all those things. (Thanks for the great resource to look up this info.) I'm not saying anyone should do the same, just that it is possible.

[Stace]

Originally Posted by avent

I'll come back and read the entire thread later, but I have to say that I looked at the list of what Disney owns and I don't use any of it. I haven't been trying either, I didn't know until just now they owned all those things. (Thanks for the great resource to look up this info.) I'm not saying anyone should do the same, just that it is possible.

Are you sure? You've NEVER watched a movie produced by one of their companies? Never watched Lifetime TV? Ever bought a CD put out by Hollywood Records? I'm NOT saying that you're lying, I just think that with media giants like that, it really is hard to avoid 'em.

[Leta]

I really, really know that many people who drive big gas guzzlers do so for no reason other than ego. (It was my first reason, remember? The childless, dogless couple with TWO Hummers.)

I'm just saying that other people may have valid reasons for their choices.

I really, really don't think that anyone could comfortably fit in the back seat of our Corrola with a car seat back there. It's a '91 and we are NOT small people- neither short nor thin. (DSS complained- he isn't a complainer, but he's 9 and is 4'10" and weighs 88#- for all intents and purposes, the size of a small adult.)

I think Subarus are really practical vehicles for those who can afford them. They are way, way, way out of our price range. Subarus are damn near impossible to find used and fairly priced (I know I'm not the only one on this- I've had discussions about this with other MDCers in this very forum), and DH and I do not buy new cars, as that would be financial suicide for us.

We are looking already for a used minivan, as we would like to have another child soon, then another in pretty short order. That's four kids all day, three in car seats. I can't think of a vehicle, other than a van or SUV of some stripe, that would hold all of us.

We live in the Upper Midwest, so our minivan MUST be all wheel drive. This is a fairly new thing, the AWD minivan. Especially when it comes to domestic cars, and as we live in Michigan, the used domestic car market is much bigger than that of used foreign cars. So I can see how someone would buy an SUV if their options were limited and they didn't plan ahead long term. I drove an SUV (a hand me down from my mom) and I hated it. I'll never buy another one. I just don't think that everyone who has a good size family and drives an SUV made the wrong choice.

[avent]

Originally Posted by Stace

Are you sure? You've NEVER watched a movie produced by one of their companies? Never watched Lifetime TV? Ever bought a CD put out by Hollywood Records? I'm NOT saying that you're lying, I just think that with media giants like that, it really is hard to avoid 'em.

Well, my post was in the present tense, wasn't trying to imply I never have. But now that you made me think about it, I cannot think of anything I've owned or viewed from those companies. I probably have owned something in my life but am forgetting, what I was saying is that I don't use any of their stuff now.

I guess I'm not that into media, so that factors in. I have a few CDs I like and none of them are from the Disney-owned label, not that I knew that until today. I only watch TV for major news events/emergencies (like 9/11) and I've never had cable. I hardly listen to the radio and when I do it's not one of the stations listed. I don't watch movies much, I guess I read more for entertainment. I don't think I have any Hyperion books. Not that I was avoiding them (like I said I didn't even know they were owned by Disney), I guess I haven't been attracted to the topics. I don't have any Disney branded toys/movies/music here and don't go to the theme parks, which are intentional choices, but the rest of it isn't. I guess I'm just a hermit.

[bigeyes]

Another thing I have to think about when buying a vehicle is my comfort level.
I have fibromyalgia and very long legs. I'm not really tall, but sitting in theater seats or most car seats for any length of time is physically painful for me because my lower body is abnormally long and they just don't make things to fit me.

We were at a car show and I sat in a Mini Cooper and the first words out of my mouth were I could never own one of these, this hurts. Putting the seat all the way back didn't do a bit of good.

When I was younger I could do it, but now I just physically cannot take it, I would literally have to pull off the road several times in between my house and the nearest real 'town,' which just is not realistic.

[erthe_mama]

Originally Posted by bigeyes

Another thing I have to think about when buying a vehicle is my comfort level.
I have fibromyalgia and very long legs. I'm not really tall, but sitting in theater seats or most car seats for any length of time is physically painful for me because my lower body is abnormally long and they just don't make things to fit me.

Ditto on the long legs and FMS, however, I have an Aveo for my family which is small, fuel efficient and comfortable. It can also fit two adults and two to three kids. I found it pretty comfy in the back seat myself actually. Just sayin.