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Dr. Refuses our family for complaining about forced retraction! - Page 3

post #41 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulla View Post
I disagree. It is more than a stretch to call a medical exam sexual assault.

Regardless of whether the nurse's actions were misguided or a result of misinformation, one could reasonably (and successfully) argue that her actions still fall well within the boundaries of a normal medical exam and she was doing her due diligence by examining the boy for what she thought could be a medical problem.

I guess I'm mystified by the retraction obsession in the U.S. I've lived all over the world with my children and never encountered the belief that a one-time incident of retraction with cause horrible permanent damage and the person who did it is evil and deserves to be destroyed professionally and financially.
Not necessarily true...when I transferred to the hospital from my HB, I was forced into internal fetal monitoring and a VE that I refused. The monitoring was court ordered, the VE and the dozen times or more they decided to 'reposition' the IFM by forcibly holding my legs apart was not. I filed sexual assault charges against the CNM on that part and would have gone forward with them (and according to the judge who was acting as mediator for all parts of my lawsuit would have gone forward with a probable conviction) had I not agreed to stand down as part of the mediation process to settle to suits.

So yes, it can be sexual assault and this boy was old enough to understand what was happening and to have consented or not...besides, his mother who had medical proxy, did not consent...it is sexual assault and should be treated as such.
post #42 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by +stella+ View Post
You know, Id be inclined to agree with you, however...

It not ONE time, its to every child lucky enough to be intact that comes under her care. And its not due diligence in looking for what she thought was a problem, it is contradictory to the AAP. Its not normal care, correct care, or prudent in any way shape or form to an evaluation, and for the patients of hers that cannot retract, no doubt the next step, or at least if not her specifically but of care providers in this country, is to order an circ consult with a urologist.

THAT is WRONG. And the letter was rightfully sent, and if they do what they say they will do in the response, train the nurse in the correct care of a intact penis on a prepubescent boy, then there will be no problem. But instead the care providers in this country put their head in the sand and do whatever the damn well please, and that will not stop unless we make them stop, and apparently in this case, asking for this respect during an exam is not good enough.

Parents cannot continue to look the other way when their child is treated incorrectly and I dont care if there is one nano of a percent chance that lasting damage can be done by ANY procedure someone performs on my child if it is UNNECESSARY per the guidelines outlined in the medical establishment that represents them, in this case the AAP.
: It is an exhausting fight, but applause to OP for not backing
down!

BTW... I added the practice that threw this poor family out to the list of parties to send a copy of my letter to (which includes foreskin development and care instructions........)
post #43 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBecks View Post
she did so SPECIFICALLY AGAINST THE PARENT'S CLEAR INSTRUCTIONS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBecks View Post
and emphasizing the fact that the nurse disregarded the parent's instructions and intentionally went against the parent's wishes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurumama View Post
The OP told the nurse clearly not to retract, and the nurse violated the verbal instructions.
You all are assuming facts that are not in evidence. In the OPs own words:
Quote:
One of the little check boxes on the form is about genitals. So, she tells us specifically what she's going to do. Only the testicles, blah blah. VERY clear about what's going to happen. His sister was in the room though so she was insistent that he turn so she couldn't see and stand on the other side of the examining table and stuff. It was weird the way she handled it, but she's one of those kind of judgmental know it alls that spouts the worst kind of mainstream drivel and doesn't even know why. I find it best to just smile and nod and let those people have their way so long as it's not hurting anything. And she was SO specific about what she would be doing and that she would ONLY touch his testicles...and I was of the impression he was fully retracted not just partially. I just wanted the whole ordeal over with as quickly as possible. No harm could come from just letting her have her paranoid way, right?
I don't see anything in the OP's narrative indicating that she issued any kind of prohibition against retracting, gave any verbal instructions, or expressed her wishes in any way. On the contrary, she took a passive role and just let the nurse conduct the exam as she saw fit. In my opinion, the OP also mishandled the situation by neglecting to speak up beforehand, and is therefore equally responsible for what happened to her son.
post #44 of 54
^
While I see your point, I fail to understand why you chose to omit this while boldfacing the OP's quotes:
So, she tells us specifically what she's going to do. Only the testicles, blah blah. VERY clear about what's going to happen.
and
"And she was SO specific about what she would be doing and that she would ONLY touch his testicles".

I still don't think that it'a fair to place the blame on the mama here. In hindsight, I am sure that she wishes that she had pitched a fit prior to the retraction. HOWEVER, the nurse gave no indication that she was going to do anything to her son's penis. last I checked, the testicles and penis - while in close proximity to each other - are not the same. There is no reason to assume that a testicle exam is going to lead to the forced retraction of a child's foreskin.

incorrigible, I'm so sorry that this happened to your son and I can't imagine the rage you must feel to be asked to leave the practice when THEY are in the wrong. You have every right to be outraged. I don't have a son, but have attended births as a doula, sister, and friend, I see caregivers perform all kinds of interventions and procedures against a client's wishes and without their consent, and it is infuriating. I view those invasive procedures as sexual assault, and your son's forced retraction as well.
post #45 of 54
sorry this happened to your little guy.

i hope some good can somehow come of this though.
post #46 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by grrr View Post
I bet the pediatrician is just covering their ass. If the nurse did it again to your child they would be open for all kinds of trouble. Their lawyer probably suggested the letter.
That was my first reaction, too.
post #47 of 54
We should not have to tell every doctor we take our kids to not to assault them. I do, because I have heard too many horror stories like this one. But, the absence of a specific prohibition against assault does not equal consent to said assault.

I continue to be amazed that people, especially here at MDC, would think otherwise.

Medical professionals are expected to be "above board" and, correct me if I am wrong, don't they subscribe to a strict code of ethics because of the intimate nature of their relationship with patients? Ulla, do you feel that we should all take a stand with our doctors before examinations and demand that they not assault us during their exam? Why are we as a society then, so appalled when a doctor abuses his position and assaults women under anesthesia? They never specifically asked him not to do that...

ETA: As herbanmama pointed out, in the OP's case the NP did state exactly what she would do and then proceeded to assault the boy anyway, after forcing him to turn away from his mother so she could not watch the exam. Even talking about the specifics beforehand did not stop this NP from committing assault.

Unfortunately, cases like the OP's continue to erode faith in the medical establishment and make it very difficult to establish the trusting relationship that every patient should have with their doctor. This antagonistic relationship may lead patients to not seek care when it is truly needed.
post #48 of 54
Thread Starter 
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post #49 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by christifav View Post
Unfortunately, cases like the OP's continue to erode faith in the medical establishment and make it very difficult to establish the trusting relationship that every patient should have with their doctor. This antagonistic relationship may lead patients to not seek care when it is truly needed.
This is so true one time DS had a hair wrapped around the very tip of his foreskin and I worried that if I couldn't get it off myself and had to take him to the ER (I was scared of the idea of using scissors so close to things down there) that they would reccomend circing him. I managed to calm myself enough to simply unknot it, but it is rediculous to fear that the very people whom we are supposed to be able to go to in order to help and heal us may want to do harm far greater than the condition we went to see them with.
post #50 of 54
Thread Starter 
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post #51 of 54
Quote:
it is rediculous to fear that the very people whom we are supposed to be able to go to in order to help and heal us may want to do harm far greater than the condition we went to see them with.
ITA! It is really sad this is a valid concern. We should be able to seek help and feel safe in doing so.
post #52 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulla View Post
From the OPs description of what actually happened it does indeed sound minor to me. If the little boy's reaction was "ouch" and then he later experienced a burning sensation when urinating, that is not serious. My oldest sons got his foreskin caught in a zipper and he was howling in pain all the way to the emergency room and bleeding profusely. At the emergency room the doctor had to retract a bit to evaluate the the wound. He need a few stitches on the tip of the foreskin. This all happened in Paris, France when my son was three years old. My son experienced no lasting problems. He has an active sex life with no issues.

My sons were born in France Tanzania, and Germany. In both France and Germany doctor's do occasionally push the foreskin back a bit to evaluate a complaint of pain.
It doesn't matter if the degree of physical harm done was little or great. Sexual molestation is sexual molestation. Why do docs feel the need to pull the foreskin back to "check" anyway? It's like they don't believe there is really a glans in there if they can't see it. :

And incorigible, I like your ds statement. Very well said.
post #53 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulla View Post
You all are assuming facts that are not in evidence. In the OPs own words:


I don't see anything in the OP's narrative indicating that she issued any kind of prohibition against retracting, gave any verbal instructions, or expressed her wishes in any way. On the contrary, she took a passive role and just let the nurse conduct the exam as she saw fit. In my opinion, the OP also mishandled the situation by neglecting to speak up beforehand, and is therefore equally responsible for what happened to her son.
That's a good and fair clarification. But it can't be denied that the nurse practitioner misled the mother and son as to what she intended to do during the exam. I still think it's fair to say she lied about the exam, and that still fits my description of poor quality of care. I don't think the responsibility is equal, although if the OP had been more explicit about her expectations, the situation may have been avoided. The nurse practitioner still lied and misled the patient and guardian.
post #54 of 54
As horrible as it is, there is no justice.
I was terminated from care by my OB at 28 wks pregnant. I didn't get the mandatory by state 30 days of care, I was just out. I didn't receive prenatal care for months b/c they terminate me days before my next visit, which was canceled by them.

You can try your state board of medicine, but they followed the protocol of 30 day notice.

What I learned... I have rights to say no, but they also have the right to not accpet me as a patient. So be it... I found a hb mw and had a hba2c. The joke was on them

Find yourself an intact friendly doctor and forgettaboutit. I use a FP and I think our doc is probably intact although I would never ask (he's a deacon at our church). He is from Amish country and thinks HBs are normal occurances! And my CD are not unusual either... He is a great find.
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