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Washington Post article is up - Page 3

post #41 of 84
bluefish:

i do agree with you about wanting to do this, not doing it because the system is flawed.

UC just makes perfect sense to me. it just does. i can't even explain it logically--but, if people want me to give them a "logical reason why i would prefer UC over a MW or hospital" then i can provide them with that information. But, the real reason, for me, is spiritual-mental-emotional, not 'Logical.'

and i don't think it has to be logicial. nor does it have to be about fear/risk management, nor does it have to be about broken systems. it can simply be about what we want, what is right for us as individuals.

that's how it is for me.
post #42 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bluefish View Post
I do not go outside the system because it is broken. I go outside the system BECAUSE I DO NOT NEED IT - IT IS USELESS TO ME!

Come on now - I'm not the only one - right?!

This is a fundamental thing that people miss.

I don't plan to homeschool because public school sucks. I plan to homeschool, because *I want to teach my own kids.*

I don't wear my baby because strollers are evil. I wear my baby, because I want to wear my baby.

I don't plan to UC because midwives/OBs/hospitals/birth centers suck. I plan to UC, because *I want to birth my baby alone or with my immediate family.*

When we allow people to reduce our choice to simply opposing another choice, then we allow them to invalidate the intrinsic value of our choice.
This is what it all comes down to I think. I have read the blogs this morning and the followup comments on the WP site and there is so much anger and so many personal attacks, simply because we make choices based on informed, intelligent research and decisions, not pseudo science and they think we are nut jobs for doing it.

I am not indicting anyone for their choices, I am simply making a stand, based on informed decisionmaking, for what is right for my family, from UP/UC to babywearing, to bedsharing, to Extended BFing, unschooling, etc. FOR MY FAMILY, not yours.

There was a comment on the WP site that I quoted on my blog, "All truth passes through 3 stages: First it is ridiculed. Then it is violently opposed. Finally, it is accepted as self-evident.”

How truer of a situation is UC for that statement!?
post #43 of 84
want to add this from a particularly hostile blogger, it is actually one of her other commentors,

"You may claim to be making an “informed choice,” but without any real evidence, your choice is not truly informed but is based on a combination of anecdotal stories of good outcomes and a willingness to play “beat the odds.”"

Did you make your decisions based on anecdotal stories and risky personal tendencies?

I know I surely did not.
post #44 of 84
For me, while it was partially because the system is broken that I chose to UC... it came down to weighing the options. I did not decide to UC without researching BOTH uc/hospital birth/and even midwife assisted although it wasnt really an option for me. I didnt just say "hey, thats for me" or "my goddess will protect me" etc and decide to UC. Just like I didn't say "hey my doctor knows more than me and therefor i have to blindly listen" and decide to have a hospital birth. In that same vein, I did not choose to homeschool my son without first weighing both the public school and homeschool options, nor did I choose to wear my DD without analyzing carriers and strollers, and choosing the one that was best for MY family. ya know? Maybe I'm more analytical than most, but I see negatives and positives to just about every choice, and the balance, for me, is choosing the one that weighs most in my favor.

NOW, that being said... if hospitals were like luxury hotels with complimentary GOOD food during labor, a jacuzzi tub in every private birthing/laboring/postpartum suite, a closet full of natural birth assistance tools (birth ball, sling, massage packs, etc), a complimentary pro-natural birth doula available but not required, soft music, soft lighting, and a fully supportive non-interventive staff of OBs/Midwives/Nurses who understand that you are paying THEIR salaries, and treat you like a respected and cherished guest... along with a bed 2-3 times the size of the current hospital beds, a sleeper couch, and toys for the much welcomed elder siblings (as well as a playroom and friendly childcare provider for those who's children wish not to be present).... well then I would become a hospital birther.
post #45 of 84
Did you make your decisions based on anecdotal stories and risky personal tendencies?

admittedly, it was an anecdotal story that first brought me to consider UC--that of Jeanine Parvati Baker in her book Prenatal Yoga. when i first read it, i thought it sounded "extreme" but there was something in my soul that really was struck by it. And after 30 minutes of discussion about it, my husband and i agreed that it was "right."

The thing is, logical evidence isn't the only thing that one uses to determine what is "right and appropriate." if that were true, i wouldn't be the sort of vegetarian that i am. I am vegetarian because of m soul-spirit--not because of my head-intellect and the evidence that supports or decries vegetarianism.

but, truth be told, if there wasn't an intellectual reason to be veg in a healthy way, or to UC in a healthy way--then i wouldn't do it. For me, the process is usually "backwards" like this.

with vegetarianism, i long held the idea that i wanted to be veg (since i was about 10-11). my parents told me veggies couldn't be healthy (not enough nutrients, etc). I believed them for years. then, i really, really felt drawn to being veg. So, i researched being veg and learned how to be a healthy veg. I went veg, and 8 yrs later i'm still veg. I'm healthy as can be.

the same was true of this. i heard about UC in an anecdotal story. then, i learned about UC and birth in general through the various materials available. i realized how safe and healthy UC could be, and my decision was solidified. it just makes sense. so, i'm going to do it.

and as i've always said about being veg and UC, if i ever feel that it's not the right way for me to go--then i'll go another way. no big deal.

the second issue that the hostile blogger brought up was--risky personal tendencies.

in regards to me, this is just laughable. i am a very cautious person who takes her health--physical and spiritual--very, very seriously. i do not engage in risky behaviors--i'm even a 31 yr old defensive driver who commonly drives at or below the speed limit! LOL

when i go rock climbing, i check and double check everything. i've never used drugs, gotten drunk, or had casual sex. i just don't do things that are all that risky!

and, when i do things that are risky (as life has inherent risk), i check, double check, and triple check before i move forward. And if, at any point, i don't feel safe or i don't feel that i'm willing to take the risk (whatever that is), then i stop. i don't go forward with it.

i am incredibly cautious and conscientious. that's just my way. most of my friends--many of whom will likely hospital birth--take much greater risks than i do in a variety of ways. i'm very, very conservative compared to them.

they consider me crazy and risky--but much of what they do is much riskier than planned UC.
post #46 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by SublimeBirthGirl View Post
The funny thing is, I'm willing to bet the average UCer knows as much about normal birth, if not a great deal more, than the average OB or L&D nurse.
Laura, I enjoyed your whole post. But had to pull this out - my med student friend, who's applying to OB-gyn residency programs now, told me that exact thing. I also know more about normal and most medical birth than she does . . . I was complaining about the standard charts used for progress, and even as she was saying, "Well, if anyone falls off the chart it's the standard of care to recommend pitocin," I pointed out a few things (including the natural alignment plateau, and the faulty origin of those charts) - and she replied, very honestly, "Well, I don't know where those charts came from, we're just supposed to use them. I don't have time to question and research everything I'm taught in med school, I just have to learn it and move on." Yes, and this is the kind of doctor who will be taking care of women in labor! Brilliant!
post #47 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenlaana View Post
well then I would become a hospital birther.
I can understand someone feeling that way, but that would not be enough for me to become a hospital birther. The whole idea of making birth into a planned event where I have to determine when I'm in labor and go somewhere or alert somebody does not work for me - and Lord knows I've tried it that way! I can't say for sure, because I've yet to give nature a fair shake - but I truly believe what I need is to stay home, stay calm - not get all caught up in "Am I in labor yet?" "When do I call X, Y, Z person?, and birth when my body and baby are ready.

I did not base my choice on anecdotal stories - and goodness knows I'm not a risk taker! But I always instinctively knew that I did not want to birth the traditional way - it does not appeal to me at all. Even the midwifery tradition of women supported birth does not appeal to me. What the anecdotal stories did was show me that I wasn't alone in my feelings, and that what I instinctively wanted was an option.

There are many reasons women UC, but for me it is about the fact that I value the intrinsic value of birthing unattended. UC stands on its own as a valid choice for birth - it doesn't need to be compared to or measured against other birth options. My choice of UC does not mean a rejection and criticism of all other options.
post #48 of 84
Quote:
"But a woman having a baby is not in a position to be monitoring herself."
This comment is irksome because it belies true ignorance of what a UC is actually like. Many women, when attended during birth, are very suggestible. That may create the perception, to a birth attendant, that women are incapable of monitoring themselves during birth.

However, one of the most fascinating things to me about unassisted birth is how very present, in control, and observant an unassisted laboring mother really is. It is my personal opinion that a woman who knowingly undertakes an unassisted birth (or perhaps unknowingly, but I think fear becomes a strong inhibitor in unexpected UCs for most women) is in the very best position to monitor herself and the baby during birth. She is most aware, more aware than a midwife could possibly be, of her own status and the baby's.

I also liked the poster who pointed out "women are attempting to ______ without medical assistance." My big one is poop. Say you have a big poop and are mildly constipated. Now you know you can't poop this out on your own - lots of things could go wrong. You could die if your intestines twist and you don't get to the hospital. So we'll hook you up to some monitors, check the progress of the poop, and let you know how you're doing. If things don't go according to average pooping, then we may need to go after this one surgically. When really, all the poopee needs is some dark, quiet alone time in the bathroom with a soothing drink and something good to read. Yes, that poop may hurt. But it'll probably come out easier, and with fewer complications, without sixteen professionals examining it and criticizing the poopee's lack of progress. This is not to say that giving birth is just as safe as pooping, just that the idea that medical intervention or attendance is absolutely essential to avoid catastrophe in many cases is overstated. And that pooping for a critical audience would be much more difficult than just doing it on your own.
post #49 of 84
i do like a good read. . .
post #50 of 84
Well if people won't think my reasons for UC are "logical", then maybe these reasons are acceptable enough.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/65090.php

Doesn't anybody read newspapers or watch the news on TV anymore? The "studies" are there! What is so crazy about being responsible for YOUR body and YOUR baby? I didn't need help having sex. I didn't need help growing a fetus; making two ears, a brain, and two eyes. So I sure as h*** don't need help getting the baby out!! That is the easy part!

Funny how people will automatically accept statistics from an unknown source about how more babies die at home than in hospitals, but won't take the personal experience of a Mother as any indication of how dangerous homebirth is. The three Mothers in the article had live babies? You mean, the babies survived? *gasp* In third world countries that are so overcrowded there is not enough food to go around, women aren't having their babies in hospitals. Obviously birth can't be that dangerous! People are reproducing!

Reading the comments section in any UC article is a grim reminder of the type of brainwashed people who inhabit our earth.
post #51 of 84
Romana9+2 said:
"This comment is irksome because it belies true ignorance of what a UC is actually like. Many women, when attended during birth, are very suggestible. That may create the perception, to a birth attendant, that women are incapable of monitoring themselves during birth."


This reminds me of when I told my Grandma, who had NINE children naturally without intervention, that I was planning a UC. She told me I was ridiculous because a woman can't catch her own baby! She went on to ask me how I was going to do it, because I wouldn't be able to reach "down there." That attempt ended with a transfer for me. (long labor, posterior baby)

The second time I told her I was planning a UC again, she smiled and nodded. When I actually had my UC, I called her and told her the news, and she laughed and said that she didn't think I could do it because she thought the baby was too big!!

The insanity!!
post #52 of 84
i love how people say 'but you can't reach down there!!"

and i say "i masturbate just fine, thank you."
post #53 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
i love how people say 'but you can't reach down there!!"

and i say "i masturbate just fine, thank you."
HA! I love it!
post #54 of 84
I'll admit part of my reasoning does appear anecdotal.

There's no scientific studies about how humans have been born and survived for the history of the earth, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't with OBs or even midwives for the most part.
post #55 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatureMama3 View Post
I'll admit part of my reasoning does appear anecdotal.

There's no scientific studies about how humans have been born and survived for the history of the earth, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't with OBs or even midwives for the most part.
well, no, it wasn't with OB's but midwives have had a hand since the dawn of man when a womon was with her womon family members. OB's can only claim somewhat of a hand of only part of the last 100 years or so.
post #56 of 84
yes, they've certainly had a hand, but I still suspect that the majority weren't assisted in any "professional" way. Plus midwives back then had a toolbag much smaller than midwives today. No prenatals, testing, etc.
post #57 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romana9+2 View Post
Laura, I enjoyed your whole post. But had to pull this out - my med student friend, who's applying to OB-gyn residency programs now, told me that exact thing. I also know more about normal and most medical birth than she does . . . I was complaining about the standard charts used for progress, and even as she was saying, "Well, if anyone falls off the chart it's the standard of care to recommend pitocin," I pointed out a few things (including the natural alignment plateau, and the faulty origin of those charts) - and she replied, very honestly, "Well, I don't know where those charts came from, we're just supposed to use them. I don't have time to question and research everything I'm taught in med school, I just have to learn it and move on." Yes, and this is the kind of doctor who will be taking care of women in labor! Brilliant!
Oh yeah, it's nuts. I attended a birth with an OB in attendance (ended in c-section, TOTALLY caused by the OB who I think had marked the mom for a c-section during the prenatal period). The mom had gone from 4 to 6 in a couple of hours, not even 12 hours since SROM, good strong contractions. Mom was showing signs of transition. The OB said, "She CAN'T be in transition. She's only 6 cm." I said, "I was in transition at 4 cm." She got all wide-eyed like, REALLY? To her, 4 cm is active labor, 8 cm is transition, because that's what the textbooks say.

I think you'd have to be NUTS to hire an OB for a vaginal birth. But most women don't realize it's nuts.
post #58 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bluefish View Post
I can understand someone feeling that way, but that would not be enough for me to become a hospital birther. The whole idea of making birth into a planned event where I have to determine when I'm in labor and go somewhere or alert somebody does not work for me - and Lord knows I've tried it that way! I can't say for sure, because I've yet to give nature a fair shake - but I truly believe what I need is to stay home, stay calm - not get all caught up in "Am I in labor yet?" "When do I call X, Y, Z person?, and birth when my body and baby are ready.

Thats a really good point. I hadnt even thought of that angle. If I had people waiting for me to birth my DD I would have ended up with a cesarean, I'm sure. I started feeling crappy Friday night, was having contractions that I knew were contractions on Saturday, slept in a rocking chair fitfully through them Saturday night and slept for the 3-5 min between them Sunday night before having DD on Monday afternoon. I dont know HOW it would have worked out if I'd headed to the hospital when the contractions were timeable and 4-5 min apart or whatnot. I remember saying finally on Monday afternoon (after having no "real" sleep since Thursday night/Friday) that if I was still in labor on Tuesday night I would consider going to the hospital. If I had not spent my whole labor telling myself that I had *one more day* and *no rush, baby will come when she's ready* I think I would have given in before the sun set on Sunday.

Very good point!
post #59 of 84
Yeah, I'll be in textbook definition labor, and then just quit - go 12 hours - start back up - and quit - go 12 more hours - labor some more - and honestly, I've yet to just ride it out and see what happens - I end up stressed out because I don't know what to tell all the people wanting to know what's going on, I don't know what's going on, so then I agree to "try something", then when that stops working - try something else - ugh! This time I'm not telling anyone anything - I'm going to set on the couch and read and watch TV!!!
post #60 of 84
Now, much to my chagrin, I am privvy to Dr. Amy....do I need to say more? :
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