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Friend wants to bf all day, give formula at night - comments? - Page 2

post #21 of 46
i think it's a bit unfair to come crashing down on this woman. she really may not have the information she needs to make a fully informed choice. if you don't know much about breastfeeding and supply or about formula truly giving upset tummies (formula is such the norm many people think all babies are sick to their stomachs at night) then of course it would seem like a GREAT idea.

i ended up having to supplament b/c of medications i was on at the time of 1st DS's birth and must tell you when i breastfed at night it was so darn easy i sometimes didn't quite know i'd been "awake" for a feeding as i was topless and babe was in the bed. that was WAY more condusive to my rest than waking up to get a bottle and i even was so lazy as to keep them in a minifridge by the bed!
post #22 of 46
Thread Starter 
Thank you so much for all the responses! Many moms are better than one. I will share all of your comments (yes, even the grouchy ones!) Oh, one thing, can someone please tell me what SCBU means? I'm new
post #23 of 46
Just adding my 2 cents....
Formula to make a baby sleep longer is a myth. And Yes, harder on digestive system, they're much gassier on formula.
Breastmilk is like gold; I never wasted a drop! I had supply issues when my son was 4 mo old. I broke down in tears when he had to have a bottle of formula because I couldn't produce that extra feeding that he needed. The friend might change her mind when the baby actually comes... things are always different after birth.
post #24 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by cricketsmomma View Post
Oh, one thing, can someone please tell me what SCBU means? I'm new
SCBU = Special Care Baby Unit
post #25 of 46
One thing that hasn't been mentioned, but is really important, is "sleeping through the night" is defined for an infant as FIVE HOURS. She's not, in all likelihood, going to put the baby down at 7, and have her wake up 12 hours later. Or even go to bed at 11 when she does and wake up at 6. Yes, there are the rare babies that do that, but these babies also eat every hour on the hour during the day, My son, at nearly 2, only now goes one 5-hour stretch & one 7-hour stretch. And he nurses in between those 2 stretches! Remind her that feeding at night is what staves off ovulation, and therefore menstruation and fertility. Also, washing nipples is a HUGE pain in the rear, and even if the baby's not in her bed (co-sleeping doesn't work for everyone), it's still a lot less work to nurse than it is to fix a bottle - especially in the first 6 months when it's really important for the water and equipment to be sterilized first.
post #26 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by momto l&a View Post
I forgot how long it takes for the babies gut to get back in shape after one bottle of formula.

Is it 10 days
It's six weeks.

The formula will change the mix of bugs living in her baby's intestines from those of a breastfed baby to those of an adult. Part of the benefits of breastfeeding come from that unique mix of bugs that help keep bad things from growing, and make the gut's work very easy.

She will easily be able to see this if you have friends who give formula fairly often - instead of slightly sweet smelly mustardy coloured poo the poo is just like a grown-ups - smelly, hard, full of e.coli. They are also prone to constipation, which an exclusively breastfed baby isn't - that shows you how hard it is on the gut.

On the easy issue. When the baby is six, twelve, twenty weeks old her nightime formula helper is probably going to simply roll over and go back to sleep and it's going to be her who actually needs to get out of bed, go to the kitchen, make up or warm the bottle (with screaming child) and then keep the light on so she can give it to them without getting air bbubbles, etc. As opposed to rolling over, grabbing child and going back to sleep.

How about suggesting to your friend that she exclusively BF for six weeks and then see how she feels?
post #27 of 46
We gave a few supplemental formula bottles in the beginning.

My DS's tummy really didn't react well to formula. He got a LOT of gas. If your friend's baby is anything like mine, she'd be up more often having to burp and calm her baby.

I also don't know whether she realises that bottle feeding is a lot more work than breastfeeding.

F/F at night:
Walk to kitchen
Grab bottle
Fill bottle with formula and/or mix and warm formula
Go back to bed
Sit up to feed DS
Wipe DS's chin every 10 seconds
Finish feeding and burp
Burp again
Go back to kitchen and rinse bottle or put in d/w (old formula REALLY stinks)

B/F at night:
Pop breast in DS's mouth
Relax, feed, bond, listen to happy baby noises
Burp DS
Go back to sleep

Also, DS would often reject the bottle from me because he could smell my milk and want to be with mommy, not the bottle. So it took a lot longer to feed him because of that struggle, too.

That's just my experience with the whole deal. Thank God we are formula-free now.
post #28 of 46
You could also tell her about my cousin who was "lucky" in that her new infant slept 7 hours at night, right from the start. Which she thought was great. Until she ended up hosptialized for a week with SEVERE mastitis. Like on IV antibiotics, fever of 105*F etc. Obviously she is no longer breastfeeding AT ALL.

(And yes, I really wish I'd said something when I heard about the baby sleeping so long, but she's my step-cousin, and I didn't want to come off the wrong way, you know?)
post #29 of 46
I don't have anything new to add - everythings been pretty much covered.

I just can't believe someone would want to FF at night. It is such a PITA, and this coming from first hand experience. It's so much easier for me to whip out my boob to a baby lying next to me, and fall back to sleep while he's nursing. Not to mention, the baby doesn't get hysterical because it doesn't take someone 5-8 minutes to whip out a boob. And when the baby doesn't get hysterical, baby sleeps better thru the night with less to no long wake stretches at night.
post #30 of 46
My baby is BF and has been since day one so I don't have any personal experience...but I do have friends that exclusively FF and also did the BF and FF at night thing. And of the ones that were FF, thier mamas still complained about having to get up every 2-3 hours occasionally 4 hours to feed the baby for the frist couple of months (pretty much my schedule too). I've also heard of BF babies that sleep really well at night...but this is usually after the baby is a few months old at least.

Newborn babies, FF or BF, should NOT be sleeping 7-8 hours at night on a regular basis. (some do I know...but I don't think the majority do)

The simple fact is that for the first few months the kid is gonna be waking up at night. There is no way to avoid it, short of stuffing them with rice cereal...and even then that isn't always a guarantee. That is just how babies work. She MAY get an extra hour or so if she uses formula...or she may still get a baby that wakes up every couple of hours like a BF baby. It really just depends on the baby. Is she willing to risk losing her supply by FF at night over the extra hour she may or may not get at night?
post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvysen View Post
I'd recommend co-sleeping instead. Rolling over and whipping out a boob and going back to sleep seems a lot easier than getting up, going to the kitchen, fumbling with making a bottle, warming the bottle, making sure the bottle isn't too hot, consoling your baby who's screaming because he/she's hungry and making a bottle takes time, feeding the bottle to the baby, spending a lot of time burping the baby because he/she got air in his/her tummy from the screaming and then from hungrily gulping, and then finally getting yourself destressed from the screaming, etc, so you can get back to sleep.
:

Gosh... I never understood that either. Co-sleeping and breastfeeding is very sleep friendly, all things considered!
post #32 of 46
Also, baby rustling and squeaking is the best sound ever. I have never woken up to any sweeter sound. The sweet squeaks and rustles soon turn to cries if you have to take the time to prepare a bottle!
post #33 of 46
Anecdotally: my first woke every few hours to nurse (3 hours was a long stretch for us) and was still waking up to nurse at least once at a year. My second started sleeping through, and I mean 7-8 hour stretches,suddenly at three weeks. She was a big baby, maybe that was the difference? Both were exclusively BF'd.

I wouldn't use formula unless there was a medical reason to do so, it's designed to provide for an infant's nutritional needs, to keep them alive. Why would you use something that's "good enough" when you have breastmilk, with all of it's nutritive, emotional and immunity boosting benefits right there? To get some extra sleep? That's pretty short sighted.

I'm not saying having a newborn is a cakewalk - sleep deprivation sucks - big time. However, it's too bad she's entering into this with "Hmm, how can I make my life easier" vs "What's best for the baby?"

My DC are almost 4 and 2, now, no one nurses at night and I miss those late nights of nursing, looking down at my infant and holding him (and her.) It's such a fleeting, beautiful phase and while challenging, far more rewarding if you look at it as a brief time to cherish rather than a burden to be dealt with.
post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueStateMama View Post
Anecdotally: my first woke every few hours to nurse (3 hours was a long stretch for us) and was still waking up to nurse at least once at a year. My second started sleeping through, and I mean 7-8 hour stretches,suddenly at three weeks. She was a big baby, maybe that was the difference? Both were exclusively BF'd.

I wouldn't use formula unless there was a medical reason to do so, it's designed to provide for an infant's nutritional needs, to keep them alive. Why would you use something that's "good enough" when you have breastmilk, with all of it's nutritive, emotional and immunity boosting benefits right there? To get some extra sleep? That's pretty short sighted.

I'm not saying having a newborn is a cakewalk - sleep deprivation sucks - big time. However, it's too bad she's entering into this with "Hmm, how can I make my life easier" vs "What's best for the baby?"

My DC are almost 4 and 2, now, no one nurses at night and I miss those late nights of nursing, looking down at my infant and holding him (and her.) It's such a fleeting, beautiful phase and while challenging, far more rewarding if you look at it as a brief time to cherish rather than a burden to be dealt with.
Yeah...what she said
post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkTrance View Post
We gave a few supplemental formula bottles in the beginning.

My DS's tummy really didn't react well to formula. He got a LOT of gas. If your friend's baby is anything like mine, she'd be up more often having to burp and calm her baby.
This is what I was thinking. Most of the people I know who formula feed have babies who are fussy at night, usually with gas and digestion issues. I wonder how having a bottle just before bed would work out - it might not help; in fact, it might make the situation worse.
post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by queenbean View Post
This means that each time she gives formula, the baby will be skipping a meal that he normally would be waking up for. (In other words, he may sleep 4 hours on formula, where he would be only sleeping 2 hours on breastmilk... so he's missing that second feeding in there.) Which means that he won't be getting as many calories and nutrients as his body really needs. Which means that in order to give herself more sleep, she's going to be depriving the baby of a feeding or two that his body would naturally need.
I don't see how this can possibly be true.

Going with this logic of 'missing feedings', how do FF babies grow (and actually they tend to be heavier than BF babies) if they are consistently being fed less often due to the longer digestion time of formula?

I have always been under the impression that FF and BF babies all take in approximately the same number of ounces (based upon their weight) per day, but FF babies tend to take in more ounces per feeding, thus needing less frequent feedings on average.

Don't get me wrong...I think the 'plan' to supplement at night from the beginning is very likely a BAD idea, but the assertation that baby would be deprived of calories by doing so just doesn't seem possible. If it *is* possible, I wonder how it's possible that FF babies end up heavier in general if they are 'missing' meals on a regular basis. Plenty of babies thrive on a combination of BM and formula too, so I guess I just don't get this particular argument.
post #37 of 46
Yes but say a baby would normally have two feedings of 3 ounces or instead take a bottle of 6 ounces.

That is two nursing sessions the baby is missing and for which the mother has to pump.
post #38 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_lissa View Post
Yes but say a baby would normally have two feedings of 3 ounces or instead take a bottle of 6 ounces.

That is two nursing sessions the baby is missing and for which the mother has to pump.
Oh absolutely. Or maybe she *doesn't* pump, but any time baby takes in EITHER pumped breastmilk OR formula by bottle and mom *doesn't* pump, the very real possibility of supply issues creeps in.

However, that is not what the statement I quoted talked about. The statement was made that baby is being deprived of calories by being fed formula instead of breastmilk, 'missing' a feeding, because of the longer time it takes for formula to digest, and *that* is what I was questioning.
post #39 of 46
Oh I'm sorry. I misread your post.
post #40 of 46

BF relaxed me at night

So many good points were made on this topic and I could write pages on all the wonderful, dark of night memories I have when the true bonding occured (weepy now, sniff sniff), I will share why night-time breastfeeding was so wonderful for us.

BF relaxed me to the point to near euphoria. I would be so relaxed that I would fall asleep immediately upon laying back down in bed (so very unlike my many sleepless pregnancy nights) We both slept so well between feedings, the interuptions made little difference. Although all babies are different, my son slept long stretches rather early on.
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