fellow soapmakers: a question or two

[princesstutu]

The last two batches of castile soap I've made, I think I undertraced b/c after the bars set in the mold for a few days, some of them were wet when I took them out. I guess the lye didn't get properly assimilated? I don't know the technicalities.

I had a soapmaking friend come over and look at the first batch and she suggested I just let them dry out more and she thought it would be fine. It seems her advice was good, as I used the first of the bars the other day (they've been curing for a little over 2 months) and while there was crystal stuff on the top (I assumed the lye in some sort), when I rinsed the bar off and smoothed the surface, it was fine. It's the best bar of soap I've used, thus far. It lathers really, really well and I figure that's b/c I let it cure for so long. (In the past, I've used the soap w/in the month, even tho I know castile gets better w/time. I only make castile soap, so far.)

I wonder, though, how can I keep from having this issue in the future and am I glossing over it? Should I have melted those batches and recooked them, do you think? Is it really no big deal to have the wetness on the bars 4 days after you put them in the mold?

Prior to those two batches, I always overtraced, so I'm working on the tracing. LOL It's a weak spot in my soapmaking. But, my bars are always pretty and they do the job. I'm ready to make my next batch (so I can have a 6 month curing time, hopefully) and I would like to avoid this mistake this time around.

TIA!

[princesstutu]

bump

Surely I'm not the only person in the world who doesn't trace soap correctly.

Or maybe I am. LOL! Wouldn't really surprise me.

[amcal]

Can you post your recipe so we can check it? That's where I would start.

Castile is notoriously slow to trace - I mean S L O W. Doing a water discount will help speed up the process but it's still pretty slow. As far as the soap being wet - was it wet like water or wet like oily?

If it was water, that sounds like your lye water didn't get completely incorporated. One way to know for sure is to wet the soap and touch your tongue to it. If you feel a zap, it still has active lye and I would immediately toss the batch. Also, the crystals on your soap concern me. Again, I would do the tongue test. Did you add anything to your soap or was is nothing but lye, water and olive oil?

[princesstutu]

It's nothing but lye, water, and oil. Castor and olive.

It was wet like water. Like I said, I already know that was the lye. So, having the crystals after it dried didn't surprise me...I figured it was lye dried up. I rinsed it off and the soap has been fine. I wouldn't sell it or give it to anyone, of course. LOL

The problem with the tracing is that it traces really fast, not slowly. So, in the past, I've allowed it to trace too much and it was goopy when I poured it in the mold. So, I ended up undertracing the last batch. I should have timed it, so I can get a good feel for how long I should try tracing. Duh! Next time.

My recipe:

64 oz olive oil
6 oz castor oil
9 oz lye
20 oz water

If I add scent (which I've only done once), I add 3-4 oz water.

Thanks! I would really like to get better at this.

[amcal]

Well, for me personally, your lye seems a bit high. Your recipe only contains a 4% lye discount. Most people do 5-6% or more. It's not dangerous at that percentage but, for me personally, it would be a more harsh bar and would be irritating. Also, I'm not sure why you would add additional water if you're adding fragrance. You don't need to do this. The average rate for fragrance in soap is 1 ounce per pound of oils - some use more, some use less but that's about the average. You can add the fragrance oils to the soap before adding the lye or add them at trace, your choice. But, you don't need additional water if your adding fragrance.

Also, if it is undissolved lye in your soap, I would not use that soap without testing it first. Take a bar and cut it in half, wet it and stick your tongue on it to make sure you don't have pockets of undissolved lye. If you see any orangish, hard spots, throw the batch away. It's lye and it's dangerous - even for personal use.

As far as your recipe tracing fast - that really surprises me. Castiles are notorious for being slow tracers. Are you using pomace olive oil? That will speed trace. Also, the higher amount of lye in your recipe will speed trace. Are you allowing your lye water to cool or using it hot? Hot lye water will also speed trace. You're not taking much of a water discount so that shouldn't do it.

As far as figuring out trace - well, this is what I do. I mix my oils/lye water together and stick blend until everything is emulsified. If I have a fragrance oil that I know will make my soap trace fast, I only stick blend until everything is incorporated and then I switch to stirring by hand. Thin trace is when everything is emulsified and you start to get a thin trail following your spoon/stick blender but the trail quickly disappears. Medium trace is a definite trail following your spoon - the soap is thicker but still pourable and when you run your spoon through it, you get definite trail marks that are slower to disappear but the soap is still fluid enough to be poured. Heavy trace is like pudding - very thick, trails stay in the soap and the soap is much more difficult to pour.

Every recipe is different and every batch of soap is different. Differences in temperatures can make a difference too. So, it's hard to give a time for trace. It's a feel, and a look rather than a specific time.

[princesstutu]

I got the recipe from a friend, as I know next to nothing about soapmaking other than: 1) you need lye and 2) how to do it given a recipe.

The soap is not harsh, at all. I rather like it, although when I was typing my OP, I wondered if maybe the lye isn't reacting correctly b/c there is too much in it. I only add more water if I add fragrance b/c my friend told me I should.

I guess I should finally research soapmaking. LOL

I use my lye water while it's still warm. Perhaps I'll let it cool from now on. I know what tracing is supposed to look like, but I don't think I have the experience to call the timing, yet. I'm still nervous about it, which is why I think I should time myself. I think knowing approxiamately how long I gave the soap to trace the previous times I made the soap will help me. I'm not a confident chemist, yet.

Thanks for your help! I think I will research computing lye online and see what I learn. I usually do a lot of research prior to learning a new skill, but with soap, I just jumped right in, since I knew someone who knew how to do it. Obviously, this is hindering my progress, as I'm a researcher by nature. Thanks for giving me a direction for it.

[amcal]

www.millersoap.com is a great place to start researching soap and soapmaking. You can also get lye calculators several different places - here are a couple:
http://www.brambleberry.com/lye_calc_1.php
http://recipes.herbalsoapsbyrj.com/c.../lye-calc1.php
http://www.thesage.com/calcs/lyecalc2.php

As far as timing yourself, I wouldn't rely on that. I would definitely rely on the look and feel of your recipe to determine light/medium/heavy trace. I have a base receipe I've made for years and it rarely traces the same way twice. If I went by time, I'd be in trouble. As you get more experienced, you will learn how you like your soap. There is no reason you can't pour at light, medium or heavy trace - it just depends upon what you're going for. Some people pour at light trace because they add color and want light, whispy colored swirls. Others prefer a heavier trace so they can decorate the top. It all depends on your preference. But, in a castile, you should have a lot of play time between light, medium and heavy trace. I'd try working with cool lye water and see if that helps.

[JessicaS]

amcal gave the link to the calculator at the sage. it's a good one and I have used it numerous times.

Lye calculators are an excellent resource.

What kind of scale were you using?

You can get an inexpensive postal scale from department stores by the mailing envelopes and such. I wouldn't recommend using anything less than a digital scale that measures 1/100 ounce.

A decent scale is the single most important soapmaking tool.

Like someone else mentioned OO is notorious for taking eighteen hundred years to trace, so if yours traced fast, I would think that would be *really* lye heavy. Lick it and see.

[princesstutu]

Originally Posted by abimommy

Like someone else mentioned OO is notorious for taking eighteen hundred years to trace, so if yours traced fast, I would think that would be *really* lye heavy. Lick it and see.

I've seen my friend do that. She actually licked my soap when it had that wetness to test if it was lye or not. Um...I'm not there, yet. And, I may never be. :

I spent last night reading abt soapmaking and lye and it's very fascinating stuff. I def. feel like I've learned something. I use a stick blender (not a spoon) and I think I'll stop using that until I get a really good feel for tracing. It'll take a lot longer, but I feel like I need that knowledge base.

I tweaked my recipe and I think I'll start superfatting it. I'm really looking forward to the next batch. Thanks for your insights!

[JessicaS]

Oh...you were using a stick blender when you made it??


That definitely affects the speed of trace. It probably traced normally then if you were using the blender.

[princesstutu]

So, you just think it was too much lye?

I know I was overtracing at first b/c it was all gloppy at the bottom of the pot when I was pouring the soap into the mold.