Bitchy, Diva Attitude - Page 2

[loveandkindness]

Stuff like this makes me glad my family lives in our own crunchy little bubble. I have no idea who Cartman and Happy Bunny are. And judging by the above, I don't want to know!

This is off the track from the OP, but from the one time I was in Claire's, my question would be: why would anyone buy JUNK? Most people don't need more stuff. Not to mention all that stuff is probably made in China by exploited workers and full of lead-based paint.

*sigh* I just don't understand mainstream society.

[RedWine]

Originally Posted by loveandkindness

Stuff like this makes me glad my family lives in our own crunchy little bubble. I have no idea who Cartman and Happy Bunny are. And judging by the above, I don't want to know!

This is off the track from the OP, but from the one time I was in Claire's, my question would be: why would anyone buy JUNK? Most people don't need more stuff. Not to mention all that stuff is probably made in China by exploited workers and full of lead-based paint.

*sigh* I just don't understand mainstream society.

I hear ya.

[Dabble]

I have to agree that merchandise of this type is completely distasteful, and I would not buy it.

I hate seeing girls with words on their butts "Hot" and "Kiss This" - these girls are like twelve years old!

In a different vein, but sort of the same topic, I saw on an online baby boutique type of store that had an infant romper sized 6-12 months that said "Jail Bait" on it. I showed it to DH, and we both just stared at it open-mouthed and horror-stricken. I can't imagine someone in their right mind putting that on a child.

[annettemarie]

I mostly understand what you're saying, but it is really sad to me that you are using negative language towards females--"bitchy" and "diva"--to describe this stuff. Maybe it's just a sign of how ingrained it it in our collective consciousness to put down and negatively stereotype girls.

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by Meg Murry.

Yeah, I have. Again, why encourage thoughtless sexism? Can you imagine how up-in-arms people would be if a boy wore a shirt that said "Girls are dumb"?

The thing is, I understand very well that the purpose of the marketers is to make money. What I don't understand is why make money constructing and selling this identity? Why this identity?

I guess you haven't seen the shirts that say shut up stupid b***h

and no, I'm not joking.

These things have been accepted (in some circles) on men's tee shirts for a long time, now unfortunately it's showing up on girl's clothing as well. What progress, huh?

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by CaraNicole

I would really hope that I've raised my son to know the difference between a cartoon and the real world. I have more faith in humanity than for a child to say "I gave my friend poision cookies b/c happy bunny did it"
I have yet to read a news report about any child doing something b/c a cartoon sticker said so. I guess I am just missing why this is a big deal, If you dislike Cartman and Happy Bunny so much why not boycott, or start a group?

While I believe in free speech and all that, I have noticed a difference in my dd's behavior when she isn't exposed to smart alecky kids on tv. Maybe you are lucky and your children aren't affected by it. Most people, adults included, when exposed to rudeness often enough, are going to soak up some of it.

Do what you want, it's a free country. But I'm really tired of that 'I hope I've raised my child better than...' argument that pops up so often when people point these things out. When your humor is mean, what makes you think your child isn't going to be mean?

[Oriole]

I don't mean to offend anyone who likes this stuff... but seriously, if those statements are not statements of arrogance, than what is?!
They ARE mean sayings, and they DO intend to make you sound better than the rest in an arrogant way. So why would you chose it for your child? Or yourself for that matter?

They say that you can't dispute person's taste, at the same time, I just don't understand what would you consider poor taste if these t-shirts are ingood taste in your book? :

[silly_scout]

Originally Posted by mom2talus

I guess the Happy Bunny lipbalm I bought for a friend that said "<s>Poison</s> Lip Balm For Friends" wasn't funny.

Ummm, yes, it was.

You're right; that is crazy funny.

[/QUOTE]For too many years, girls were taught to be quiet and passive. And they let many bad things happen to them as a result. (I know this all too well.) I'm personally okay with girls being taught to be a bit more sassy, to have some attitude, and to stand up for themselves.[/QUOTE]

I agree to a certain extent. I like sass and intelligence; unfortunately, most of the phrases Meg Murry is speaking of are not that. They are bitchy and diva-like. Hell, here are some of the infant onesies I've seen lately:
Does this diaper make my butt look big?
High Maintenance
Future American Beauty Queen (sidebar: almost vomited when I saw this one)

Originally Posted by Meg Murry.

Conversely, statements like the one in my OP promote a stereotypical view of girls as competitive, backstabbing, materialistic, nasty, and dangerously narcissistic. I see no advantage to that. Why promote THAT identity?

Have you read Backlash by... Susan Something-or-other... can't think of her name right now. Anyhoo, the theory set forth by this book is that after a period of progression for women, there is an intentional "backlash" by marketers to put women back in their place. Voila:
First Wave Feminism (ala Seneca Falls/Suffragists): Vote obtained. 1920's saw sexual enlightenment for some women. B/C pill (like it or not) invented, freeing some women to have their sexy cake and eat it too. WWII and Rosie the Riveter show women their potential. Then: BAM! WWII is over and women are back in their places, arguably more oppressed than ever. Girdles make a comeback. Birth rights and breastfeeding (trusting your body) at an all-time low.
Second Wave Feminism: Women again organize, NOW, attempts to stop sexual harrassment, increase wages, huge steps taken, then BAM: fashions of the 1980's and marketing ploys become disgustingly sexual and demeaning. See the film "Killing Us Softly" as a reference. Hard core porn (which, IMO, is demeaning and abusive to women) becomes more accessible.
Third Wave Feminism (about the past ten years): Remember in the late 80s and early 90s how shirts actually went to the waist and the jeans actually didn't sit so low that you showed your thong? Remember when thongs weren't popular?! Okay, so the past 10-15 years has seen some more advancement for women... geez, we may be about to see the first female American president. Condaleeza Rice (like her or not)... more women in higher positions, kwim? More WOH mothers staying in their positions and getting wages previously never known to women. So, according to the theory of Backlash, it's time for an adjustment. Therefore, marketers try to do this through promoting a trashy, bitchy persona - a bitch eat bitch type of atmosphere.
Do I sound paranoid? Maybe. I don't know if all of this is done on purpose (like, are there ad execs dressed like villians with long twirly moustaches rubbing their hands together and laughing MWAH HA HA HA!? IDK.) But the subconscious idea is definitely there regardless. Kind of like the pattern of what is considered attractive in a female in antiquity. In time periods and cultures when there is universal hardship, a heavier women is considered attractive because she symbolizes "plenty" and "success". In a time of universal thriving and "success", a thin waif is considered attractive because she symbolizes "control".

[jennnk]

Unfortunately, being smart isn't cool. Never has been, for girls, as far as I know. Because when you're smart and everyone knows you're smart, not only are you branded a "nerd" and a "geek" and a number of other demeaning things, but people think that you think that you're better than them (projection/jealousy/insecurity) and you're bullied. This was my experience, and the experience of all the smart girls I knew. Plenty of men/boys are intimidated by smart women, by confident women, by assertive yet caring women. These stereotypes and classifications that we're letting our daughters slip into (princess/diva/slut) are a result of insecure men and women wanting to put the rest of us "in our place." They reinforce the patriarchal, sexist notions that you'll never get a boyfriend if you like math, because boys don't like girls who like math, boys like PRETTY girls who like PRETTY things, and boys like girls who can get "freaky" and bend like pretzels, they don't care about whether or not you know the periodic table - they can talk to their FRIENDS about that. It's not funny to joke about poisoning your friends, it's not funny or cute to put a baby in a onesie that says "hung like a third grader" or "jail bait," it's not cute for a four-year-old to wear a halter top & miniskirt and a THONG. And it sure as hell isn't ok to reinforce these notions that being smart is something to be looked down upon, which is what these g-d d*mned things do. Does anyone else remember talking Barbie? "Math is hard, let's go to the mall." I shot that b*tch through the electronic voicebox with a .22. I was 11. I understood then, and I understand more now. It's not okay to dumb ourselves down, to dumb our daughters down. It's BS and it needs to stop.

[silly_scout]

Oh yeah... remember the thongs that Abercrombie and Fitch marketed to 4-10 year olds a few years ago? They said things like "Wink Wink" and "Eye Candy". *Shudders*

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by silly_scout

You're right; that is crazy funny.

For too many years, girls were taught to be quiet and passive. And they let many bad things happen to them as a result. (I know this all too well.) I'm personally okay with girls being taught to be a bit more sassy, to have some attitude, and to stand up for themselves.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, I couldn't find the original post you quoted this from. :

Girls were not taught to be quiet and passive, they were taught to be passive aggressive. That is much worse, and that is exactly what those shirts and other things are examples of. Standing up for yourself isn't being mean and sneaky, it's being assertive. Big difference.

[jennnk]

Originally Posted by silly_scout

Oh yeah... remember the thongs that Abercrombie and Fitch marketed to 4-10 year olds a few years ago? They said things like "Wink Wink" and "Eye Candy". *Shudders*

I hate abercrombie. I hate abercrombie with the passion and fire of one thousand burning suns.

[silly_scout]

Originally Posted by bigeyes

Girls were not taught to be quiet and passive, they were taught to be passive aggressive. That is much worse, and that is exactly what those shirts and other things are examples of. Standing up for yourself isn't being mean and sneaky, it's being assertive. Big difference.

These t-shirts should say "I've been with the company for a decade now and I deserve the same raise Mr. Jones just got" not "Your boyfriend is looking at me!"


Okay, both of those tee shirts suck. I'm still kinda lovin' the chapstick previously mentioned.

[rupiezum]

Originally Posted by Meg Murry.

Well, okay, but why in the world would a mother want to have her daughter express an attitude like, "Gold Digger" or "Hottt" or "Boys make good pets"?

Well, here's the thing - they're pretending like it's all about girl power and strong females. But it's just more subservient spun in a different way. Because then they can still be like, "Aw, isn't that cute, the widdle girl pretending she's tough." Mind you, these are the people who are marketing thongs to six year olds.

I just got Packaging Girlhood out of the library. Looking forward to reading it.

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by silly_scout

Y
Future American Beauty Queen (sidebar: almost vomited when I saw this one)



Have you read Backlash by... Susan Something-or-other... can't think of her name right now.

Faludi

There is another one I can't recall the author or the exact title of, but it was a bizarrely interesting connection between football and violence against women.
If anyone can help me out with that one, please do.

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by Adastra

I I\ think you are confusing pg-13 semi-sick humor with something else that I agree is disgusting, which is the seducing of our daughters into commercialized, princessy, materialistic, and entitled diva-hood. It's as if the corporate industrial complex took the little girl princess complex and twisted and spun it until they'd made it the ideal consumer - entitled, self-centered, and too snotty to listen to anyone else.

They're not identical, of course, but especially in statements like, "It's all about me, deal with it," it's clearly crossing over.

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by LilyGrace

Ahem -
Math Rocks!
and
Math Goddess

YAY!!! One of the many reasons I love this board.:

EDITED: WAIT!!! Did anyone notice that the "Math Rocks" t-shirt was from men's apparel?

Thankfully, "Math Goddess" wasn't.

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by Chimpmandee

I have to agree that merchandise of this type is completely distasteful, and I would not buy it.

I hate seeing girls with words on their butts "Hot" and "Kiss This" - these girls are like twelve years old!

In a different vein, but sort of the same topic, I saw on an online baby boutique type of store that had an infant romper sized 6-12 months that said "Jail Bait" on it. I showed it to DH, and we both just stared at it open-mouthed and horror-stricken. I can't imagine someone in their right mind putting that on a child.

And yet, I'm sure there's at least one person who's excusing it by saying it's tongue-in-cheek and no one could possibly take that seriously.

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I mostly understand what you're saying, but it is really sad to me that you are using negative language towards females--"bitchy" and "diva"--to describe this stuff. Maybe it's just a sign of how ingrained it it in our collective consciousness to put down and negatively stereotype girls.

There's a major difference, IMHO, between an intelligent, assertive woman who knows her own mind and the stereotype (and I've referred to it as such in previous posts) of the bitchy diva.

I have no problem with (for example) t-shirts extolling the virtues of intelligent, assertive women, even ones whom I personally dislike and disagree with (e.g., Hillary, Condoleezza, Margaret Thatcher). There's a world of difference between, say, Hillary Clinton and the stereotype that says, "Buy Me Things - I'm Worth It."

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by bigeyes

While I believe in free speech and all that, I have noticed a difference in my dd's behavior when she isn't exposed to smart alecky kids on tv. Maybe you are lucky and your children aren't affected by it. Most people, adults included, when exposed to rudeness often enough, are going to soak up some of it.

Do what you want, it's a free country. But I'm really tired of that 'I hope I've raised my child better than...' argument that pops up so often when people point these things out. When your humor is mean, what makes you think your child isn't going to be mean?

And just to chime in here agreeing with you -- and FWIW, this is not an attack on the PP who liked Happy Bunny -- I think part of raising your child well is keeping the negative attitude to which they're exposed to a minimum. We don't live in a bubble, even a crunchy one, but we do try to keep our dd away from shows, shirts, programs, and people who are essentially mean-spirited in attitude. That doesn't make me a perfect parent -- far from it -- but I think keeping kids attitude-free for as long as possible is a worthwhile (and somewhat achievable) goal.