Bitchy, Diva Attitude - Page 3

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by silly_scout

Hell, here are some of the infant onesies I've seen lately:
Does this diaper make my butt look big?
High Maintenance
Future American Beauty Queen (sidebar: almost vomited when I saw this one)

And to me, at least, this seems like the height of misogyny here -- completely reducing women (even INFANT women) to self-indulgent personifications of vanity ("Does this diaper make my butt look big?"), economic and emotional dependence on others, especially men ("High Maintenance") and someone whose only value is in appearance ("FABQ").

Have you read Backlash by... Susan Something-or-other... can't think of her name right now.

Faludi. Yes, years ago. You're right on the money. This theory you're floating comes as close as anything I can think of to an answer to my original question. It has the feel of being the right answer, if you know what I mean.

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by jennnk

if you like math, because boys don't like girls who like math, boys like PRETTY girls who like PRETTY things, and boys like girls who can get "freaky" and bend like pretzels, they don't care about whether or not you know the periodic table - they can talk to their FRIENDS about that.

I'm just : about why people actually buy this for their girls.

It's not funny to joke about poisoning your friends, it's not funny or cute to put a baby in a onesie that says "hung like a third grader" or "jail bait," it's not cute for a four-year-old to wear a halter top & miniskirt and a THONG. And it sure as hell isn't ok to reinforce these notions that being smart is something to be looked down upon, which is what these g-d d*mned things do. Does anyone else remember talking Barbie? "Math is hard, let's go to the mall." I shot that b*tch through the electronic voicebox with a .22.

I am not an advocate of violence, but man...

[bigeyes]

And ftr, I am as sarcastic as they come, I love evil humor, but I am trying to keep my children away from it. I really notice a difference in the way they behave when they are exposed to people who are mean and snotty just for the sake of being mean and snotty.

At least when they're older they will know when it's appropriate. At 9 and 10 they don't. Which is why we watch Mind of Mencia after they are in bed.

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by rupiezum

Well, here's the thing - they're pretending like it's all about girl power and strong females. But it's just more subservient spun in a different way. Because then they can still be like, "Aw, isn't that cute, the widdle girl pretending she's tough." Mind you, these are the people who are marketing thongs to six year olds.

I just got Packaging Girlhood out of the library. Looking forward to reading it.

Yes, I agree -- it's co-opting what SHOULD be a good idea (girl power) and one that empowers women, as a PP was arguing (IMHO, incorrectly) that it does. It should, but what it comes down to is that "girl power" basically means "the power to shop."

That's not power. Especially not when the t-shirts and their ilk imply that the money gotten for shopping was acquired through strategic deployment of sexuality. That's not much better (nor much different) than prostitution.

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by bigeyes

Faludi

There is another one I can't recall the author or the exact title of, but it was a bizarrely interesting connection between football and violence against women.
If anyone can help me out with that one, please do.

Interesting! I remember reading that violence against women really goes up during the Super Bowl, but I didn't know there was a book on the subject.

[jennnk]

Originally Posted by Meg Murry.

I'm just : about why people actually buy this for their girls.


I am not an advocate of violence, but man...

It was the only time I've ever shot a gun. The fact that I hit her, especially where I did, freaked me out so badly I threw up. My dad called me "Annie Oakley" for a week. But I made my little political statement, and got a lot more respect from my dad (at least temporarily) for that much. It's too bad so many girls don't get it, and part of the reason is because of the intense marketing such as that we're talking about here. The opening line of Full Frontal Feminism is "You're a hardcore feminist. I swear." But really there are so many girls/young women who don't get angry at what she talks about as the reasons for why we're all feminists (you can get turned down for birth control, victims get blamed for their own rapes, etc.), and it makes me really sad.

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by Meg Murry.

Interesting! I remember reading that violence against women really goes up during the Super Bowl, but I didn't know there was a book on the subject.

It wasn't exactly that, it was more about the attitude that football players and fans have about women, and violent tendencies in football players. IIRC. it's gonna drive me nuts that I can't think of it.

[CaraNicole]

i had a great big long post and it was crunched. maybe it was ment to be b/c the more i read this thread the more i get the impression you just wanted people to agree with you not answer your questions. i lost track of who said stephen colbert was ok but just so you know on wed. show he had a great big running skit about vicodin painting himself as an addict, if happy bunny upsets you than i'm sure that will to. i guess this is where we agree to disagree b/c i'm just not seeing how all of this is such a big deal it's ment as a funny and if you take it all personal i guess it's your cup of tea. honestly some of these posts have really made me : so many blanket statements. well i'm done but please click the links below...


http://www.blackjackinc.com/index.as...ROD&ProdID=645


http://www.blackjackinc.com/index.as...OD&ProdID=1510


http://www.blackjackinc.com/index.as...OD&ProdID=1652





yep he's all evil i tell you!

[bigeyes]

Originally Posted by CaraNicole

i had a great big long post and it was crunched. maybe it was ment to be b/c the more i read this thread the more i get the impression you just wanted people to agree with you not answer your questions. i lost track of who said stephen colbert was ok but just so you know on wed. show he had a great big running skit about vicodin painting himself as an addict, if happy bunny upsets you than i'm sure that will to. i guess this is where we agree to disagree b/c i'm just not seeing how all of this is such a big deal it's ment as a funny and if you take it all personal i guess it's your cup of tea. honestly some of these posts have really made me : so many blanket statements. well i'm done but please click the links below...


yep he's all evil i tell you!

I don't think any of those were even remotely like the stuff we were talking about. Except for the fact that they have the bunny on them, I mean.

We were talking about perpetuating the girl on girl hatred and sexualization of little girls. I don't see that in the examples you gave.

:

But it's kind of funny you characterize yourself as a badass streetwalker.

[AmyY]

Originally Posted by bigeyes

It wasn't exactly that, it was more about the attitude that football players and fans have about women, and violent tendencies in football players. IIRC. it's gonna drive me nuts that I can't think of it.

The Stronger Women Get, the More Men Love Football.
http://www.amazon.com/Stronger-Women...6310410&sr=1-1

I agree with all of the above about the mysogyny and backlash element to these items.

Also, I spent like the first two years of my girls' lives strollering them through the mall, and I observed that there is a related phenomenon when it comes to teens and now children (soon I will be forced to call them tweens but for now I resist ). The mall is completely enclosed space. There is no sense of the passage of times and seasons. No idea really of what time of day it is. Piped in music (if you can call it that). Store after store after store after store showing enormous photos of extraordinarily tall, frighteningly thin, desperately happy young girls (and some young boys as well). These photos display merchandise as the way to happiness, and, more key, I think, as the way to rebellion against authority. In other words, impressionable young teens are being told that they can buy their way into rebellion against - what? Something undefined, perhaps parents but it seems to go beyond that into an expectation that PURCHASING SOMETHING AT THE MALL will make you into your own person.

I've never heard of this happy bunny stuff, but the one that strikes me as the most ironic is the store Hot Topic. It's all set up to imitate a garage sale in a mechanic shop, and the products there are certainly enough to make many parents' eyes bug out, but it's clearly fake. There's no real rebellion. When you buy this stuff you're buying corporate culture sold to you as if it was there to help you rebel against corporate culture.

I agree with the deeper, more troubling mysogyny involved in the products many of you have mentioned above. I would also like to point out that there is an element of "cool" to them that suggests that the purchaser/user of them has some sort of edgy sense of humor, some sort of insight about life, some sort of "wink wink" to other purchasers of these products that "we get each other" - when in fact, there are enormous corporations behind these products, and buying them involves no humor, no rebellion, no cool whatsoever. Teens and children are being hoodwinked, and parents may be as well, which is sad. Corporations can congratulate themselves at the success involved in getting people to mass-purchase products that enrich the corporation under the guise of rebelling against corporate culture.

[aussiemum]

Originally Posted by loveandkindness

Stuff like this makes me glad my family lives in our own crunchy little bubble. I have no idea who Cartman and Happy Bunny are. And judging by the above, I don't want to know!

This is off the track from the OP, but from the one time I was in Claire's, my question would be: why would anyone buy JUNK? Most people don't need more stuff. Not to mention all that stuff is probably made in China by exploited workers and full of lead-based paint.

*sigh* I just don't understand mainstream society.

Hey, your family resembles my family! We get a little bit of mainstream exposure, but not much. My family's influence, mostly. Besides, my darling DD does a good enough diva impersonation without learning any pat phrases & expressions.

[maya44]

Originally Posted by Meg Murry.

YAY!!! One of the many reasons I love this board.:

EDITED: WAIT!!! Did anyone notice that the "Math Rocks" t-shirt was from men's apparel?

Thankfully, "Math Goddess" wasn't.

"Math Rocks" comes in girls/women's styles http://www.cafepress.com/buy/math+ro..._/fpt_/c_360/#

And there are more cool "math girl" shirts!

There's pleanty more 'girly' math shirts as in http://www.cafepress.com/buy/math/-/...t_/fpt_/c_360/

[aussiemum]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I mostly understand what you're saying, but it is really sad to me that you are using negative language towards females--"bitchy" and "diva"--to describe this stuff. Maybe it's just a sign of how ingrained it it in our collective consciousness to put down and negatively stereotype girls.

Honestly Annettemarie, I'd use the words bitchy or diva or just plain bloody ignorant towards anyone who used words like 'Boys are stupid' or 'Jailbait' for babies, regardless of whether they were male, female, or hermaphrodite. To me, no one is 'inferior', & the way I read alot of the merchandise language here is that it is trying to put certain people down, ie. suggest inferiority, kiwm?

I guess you all would probably guess that I'm not a South Park fan, either?

Okay, I'll keep reading on......

[aussiemum]

And lest you all think I am completely humourless, whilst reading this....

That's Queen Bitch to You


I laughed so hard I just about needed Depends. If you are a mum with a semi-warped sense of humour I think you'll like it. ANd it (mostly) leaves the kids out of it.

[chicagomom]

Originally Posted by silly_scout

Okay, so the past 10-15 years has seen some more advancement for women... More WOH mothers staying in their positions and getting wages previously never known to women.

It's sad and frustrating that on mothering.com this is considered "advancement for women".

WOH is not "advancement".

[Equuskia]

Originally Posted by chicagomom

It's sad and frustrating that on mothering.com this is considered "advancement for women".

WOH is not "advancement".

Why not? Some women actually *gasp* like to work outside the home, while daddy stays home.

As for hot topic, there's a few here in PR, and I've mostly seen college students and adults shopping there, almost never kids.

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by CaraNicole

i had a great big long post and it was crunched. maybe it was ment to be b/c the more i read this thread the more i get the impression you just wanted people to agree with you not answer your questions. i lost track of who said stephen colbert was ok but just so you know on wed. show he had a great big running skit about vicodin painting himself as an addict, if happy bunny upsets you than i'm sure that will to.

Well, let me see.
Is my daughter wearing a t-shirt that says, "I am a Vicodin addict" or "I love Colbert the Vicodin addict"? If so, then yeah. Otherwise, you are comparing apples to oranges. One is a product marketed specifically to girls and is sold in shops patronized largely by tweens and teens (Claire's); the other is a comedy program on Comedy Central whose audience is largely an adult one and is intended to be such. Again, since apparently I have failed to make my point clear, I have no objection to black humor. I have an objection to girls, including my daughter, being sold only one of three possible identities: Bitch Diva, Princess, and Slut.

Moreover, the previous poster was so right I'd like to say it again: Let's not forget anytime soon that Happy Bunny and its ilk are produced by a corporation who did enough focus marketing to decide that mean-spirited statements are somehow "ironic" when coming out of the mouth of a bunny and will sell to tween girls chafing against the other two identities offered to them. It's faux-rebellion at its finest: "Look, I bought this; look at how edgy I am!"

And thanks, Caranicole, for also providing the web page source for these links:

Future Diva

Future Princess

Future Slut

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by maya44

"Math Rocks" comes in girls/women's styles http://www.cafepress.com/buy/math+ro..._/fpt_/c_360/#

And there are more cool "math girl" shirts!

There's pleanty more 'girly' math shirts as in http://www.cafepress.com/buy/math/-/...t_/fpt_/c_360/

By the way, I'm lovin' cafepress.

[silly_scout]

Originally Posted by chicagomom

It's sad and frustrating that on mothering.com this is considered "advancement for women".

WOH is not "advancement".

Uh oh, I've upset someone's delicate sensibilitiies.
Shall I reword so as to comfort you?
Women can now CHOOSE to stay in high paying positions.
So sorry I thought seeing female CEOs and women making six figures was "advancement".
ETA: Now that I think of it, I think it's "sad and frustrating" that on mothering.com women are still bickering about WOH vs. SAHM. Thought we were a little above that.

[Oriole]

Once, I had a professor who pointed out that there were studies done on how much better people do on presentations if they dress up... What we wear affects us, consciously or subconsciously. That's that...

So.. if you wear things like:

"Can't listen, you are dumb"
"It's all about me, deal with it"

I'll think of you a certain way... I'll make certain judgments about parents who dress up their kids in certain things (and I'm not talking about princesses or even Disney characters here, but things that make vulgar statements). I think as a parent, you have to make sure your daughter understands that many will think of her as a selfish, self-centered being if she walks out of the house like that.

Why? Because those are selfish and self-centered statements, and obviously, she endorces them by wearing them.

Just because it is funny to you, doesn't mean it's not mean-spirited.
Humor doesn't have to be mean-spirited.