Mothering › Forums › Parenting › 'The mistake...is we never set any boundaries.'
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

'The mistake...is we never set any boundaries.'  

post #1 of 42
Thread Starter 
Did you all watch the Jack Osbourne interview last night on MTV (or read the transcript)? His parents:

Quote:
"The mistake that Sharon and I both made, and we both agree on this, is we never set any boundaries," the Osbourne patriarch told MTV News, addressing his son Jack's recent stint in rehab. "We never said, 'You must be in the house by a certain time.' We just let them have the freedom. Sharon and I are still learning. We're not the parents that say, 'We're always right,' because we're not."
I'll be the first to admit that I am kinda bummed the parents conclude this way. Why? Because I don't think there are any guarantees in any parenting method. I know (and was myself sheltered) kids who grew up in very strict households and if they felt the need for substance abuse, they filled this need. All the strictness in their home perhaps delayed certain abuses or the frequency, but could not prevent it.

The kids I know from rigid homes with 'boundaries' and curfews, drug testing, learned how to sneak and lie and hide. The kids I know from more freedom-oriented homes didn't sneak and lie and hide. But both types of homes unfortunately had kids who had substance abuse issues.

I think that what is implied in Ozzy's statement is that he and Sharon feel (in hindsight) that if they had been more strict, Jack would not have chosen the path he did. It is my opinion that if Ozzy and Sharon were more strict, that could not have prevented Jack's addiction to substances like alcohol and prescription drugs.

I just don't think it's that simple.

Ozzy statement
post #2 of 42
I see where you are coming from frogertgrl. But I must disagree. From what I know of the Osbournes they had very very few rules in their household. So, yes, I do think if they had been *more* strict with the kids this *could* have been averted.

Quote:
I just don't think it's that simple.
I don't either. I believe the tendency to use has a strong hereditary base, and poor Jack was the recipient of some pretty solid addictive genes.

That whole show made me very sad last night. He's just a seventeen year old kid, for God's sake. I hope his life takes a turn for the better.
post #3 of 42
I completely agree with you Frogert!!
post #4 of 42
I would strongly disagree that they were wrong to say this. I actually stopped watching the show because it was so annoying how spoiled and reckless the kids would act while the Osbourne parents stood there telling them they shouldn't do things in a weak tone of voice. I remember on one episode, Jack and his friends were partying & playing pool at 3 AM on a weeknight and Sharon came in and gently asked them to turn down the stereo that was blasting. They were so disrespectful and practically laughed at her, then turned the stereo down slightly. I remember thinking , "How did they let these brats become the bosses of the house???" That said, I think its sweet how much Ozzy & Sharon love each other and their kids. But I agree that they needed more boundaries, esp for Jack. Maybe he would have gotten out of control anyway but at least they wouldn't have to feel like they contributed to it.
post #5 of 42
We don't have TV, so I didn't see the show, but I did watch the first season. I was very sad to hear about Jack's drug problem.
I think there's a big difference between setting some boundaries and enforcing a strict authroitarian disciplinarian style. I don't see the Osbournes ever becomign strict authoritarians and actually, I don't think that a lack of boundaries was really the issue for the Osbournes- what I saw several times on the show was that a boundary was set, and then crossed, but then there was no follow through. I mean, if you're goign to set boundaries, then there has to be a consequence to breaking them.
However, I don't think that a more consistent style of interraction with the kids woudl necessarily have "saved" Jack from his problem. He does have the genetic pre-disposition and access as well as having grown up around a lot of drug use.
post #6 of 42

I think setting no boundaries/limits

is extremely detrimental to kids. As parents we are responsible for shaping our kids - at least to an extent. I believe that it is my role as their parent to set some guidelines, and enforce some rules. That doesn't mean that I have an authoritarian style that doesn't allow for disagreement or questions. However, there are issues that I will not budge on, and I think my kids will be the better for it in the long run.

My number one goal as a parent is to raise respectful kids. I treat them with respect, and I require it in return. I want them to understand that there are certain rules that we need to follow in this society, as well as this house, and those are not flexible whether they like them or not. (Meaning that they aren't allowed to steal, it's not acceptable to hurt others, they must say please and thank you, etc.) I don't expect anything from them that I don't/won't do myself.

I can't say for sure that the responsibility that I am trying to teach my young children will carry over into their later life, but I believe it will. The parents that I know who are totally permissive have rude, disrespectful children. Not only is it no good for the parents, but it is a disservice to their kids who won't be able to get away with such behavior in every situation (school, work, etc.)
post #7 of 42
I think that the mistake was in being sorta poor role models. I agree that an authoritarian approach is no protection against kids getting involved in substance abuse.
post #8 of 42
I agree with frogertgrl...........


If you spend a week in and family rehab program, you will hear parent after parent say, "My kid had strict boundries, we were firm parents, we had rules...How did this happen??"

I KNOW first hand that just as many kids with strict, controlling parents devloped drug problems as do kids with parent who are more permissive.......................... I believe in the disease aspect of addiction and I knowthat drug addiction crosses all barriers....socio economic, racial, religious and even parenting styles.....................

I have a younger brother, 29, who I am very close to and who has been in and out of rehab for almost 15 years...as of today he has been clean and sober for 2.5 years!!!!!!! I attended family week in Minnesota and Arizona...I met people from all walks of life and every parenting style...I have not seen any coalition in drug abuse and if a parent was strict or not. My parents were more mid stream. My brothers addiction began at 12 or 13.It quickly progressed from beer, to vodka, to pot, to heroin........
Our family has learend a great deal over the past 15 years. I feel that a person does not chose to become an addict but they do chose sobriety. The kids I have seen who have gotten clean and stayed clean were the ones who have parents who respected, honored and loved them thru the process.............

This is only my VERy humble opinion................


Granolamom
post #9 of 42
Having a so called hereditary link to "addiction" doesn't mean that a person will become an addict. In most cases genes play a small part in such things. Only 10% of people with the breast cancer gene get the disease, so I don't think that we should assume Jack would have become an addict and as such should have had stricter boundries.
post #10 of 42
here! here! jen and her girls
post #11 of 42
I agree with khrisday. I don't think it helped anything that the parents almost never followed through on the stuff they would say.
post #12 of 42
It's easy to say "kids need boundaries" and "kids without them are rude, disrespectful, etc" but for me, I'd like to see real evidence to support this, not anecdotes. For every "that kid had no boundaries and turned out bad" I have also heard "so-and-so always nursed their kids to sleep and they all have sleep problems" or "I smoked through my pregnancy and my kids are fine" or "all the kids I know with sleep problems were cosleepers"....you get my drift.

What granolamom says speaks to me: addiction does seem to cross a whole lot of barriers, and I'm sure that includes form of discipline.

This isn't to say I'm not going to raise my kids with boundaries. My gut says they need them. It's just my brain wonders why I feel that way, and what the evidence is that they are necessary. I think frogertgrl's OP raises this question effectively.

Look forward to hearing more...
post #13 of 42
Thread Starter 
I don't watch tv either, so I read the transcript of Jack's interview, fyi.

The Osbournes (tm?) is a tough family to use as an example, of course, as their commercialized selves have turned them into caricatures rather than flesh and blood persons. That aside, Jack seems like a sensitive soul and maybe that was not noticed by his family in the midst of massive upheavals (infamy, cancer, addictions).

When I read through Jack's explanation for why he believes he was addicted to alcohol, drugs, I see nothing that indicates he longed for boundaries. I am aware that when the Osbournes launched their first season, millions of teenagers watched and turned to their strict parents with, 'See? It works out!' and millions of parents rolled their eyes. The usual 'tsk, tsk, letting the kids run wild like that' from parents who pride themselves on setting 'boundaries'.

But Jack describes his life as pretty much fine before the show aired (first season). Said he planned on working his way up in the music business, 'just like (his) mom' and was happy with that. (Probably no surprise that he modeled his career after his mom, as she seems to walk and talk her animus in full consciousness!) He said it was physically jolting when the show took off and he lost what he had planned to do (in the music business). Further, people were shouting they hated him, wanted him voted out of the house and said he was the least liked Osbourne. His mom had multiple admittances to the ER from passing out due to pain. His dad was null and void due to relapse and his closest sibling was rocketing to stardom.

IMO, ain't no boundary or limit going to touch that boy's pain in that situation. No strict discipline approach can come close to getting inside the mind of a teenage boy who has lost his dream and is losing touch with his family. He had to find a way to call back his spirit.

When Jack's parents 'laid down the law' and threw a bag at him and declared he was rehab-bound, he ran away and downed substances, got a hotel room, says he doesn't remember much.

Like all of us who have been in addiction, some part in us, however small, has to want change. I don't care how intervention-esque and militant the approach toward an addict, if the addict isn't ready, then any solution is going to be temporary and for the wrong reasons, by definition.

Jack decided to go to rehab and things turned around for his life (hopefully for always, too).

I think it's easy and safe for parents who are more classically 'strict' and 'set the rules', to look at the Osbournes and say, 'Yep, that's what happens when kids aren't given boundaries. Kids need to know who is boss.' I think it's also easy and safe for Ozzy and Sharon to say they should have set boundaries. It is much more frightening, imo, to admit that even with boundaries, their child might have been addicted to substances. Even with church attendance, school admission, curfews and room checks, their son still might have been suicidal. Of course, there is also nothing Ozzy and Sharon can implement at this time as the limits were never there and it appears to be too late (they are also going into a third season of their show, despite Sharon and other family members saying it's been very hard on their family). So it's safe for them to have this regret in parenting and not change very much. I don't wish regret on any parent, no way. But it is a safe route to blame the opposite in this case and know that Pandora's box was opened so long ago, nothing need change.

Thanks, granolamom for reminding me that addiction is not chosen.

I still maintain there are no guarantees and while I feel accountable to mother in the best way I can, I try not to feel too confident about the outcome. I can cling to pages of Sears books and quote the five B's and Continuum-Concept and be the Mistress of AP and still, my child may struggle tremendously with self-worth and loss of identity (like I feel Jack did/does). These things are in the ethers, I feel. Like when I hear a lot of folks say, 'Michael Jordan breastfed until he was three!' as if that is some kind of boost to one's choice to extended breastfeed. I don't often hear, 'Did you know that John Walker-Lindh breastfed until he was four?' (true) There are no guarantees or proof, I don't believe, in a lot of parenting practices. Like I said, I am incapable of mothering in a way I feel is less than what I'm doing but I don't believe I can keep my child from addiction even with boundaries.

Hope some of this rambling made sense.
post #14 of 42
Frogertgrl,

I agree with you and thank you for your heart felt post.

Granolamom,

I also appreciate your post and like how you say that addiction is not chosen but sobriety is.
post #15 of 42
I think boundaries would've HELPED. And "boundaries" doesn't have to me strict authoritarian discipline. Boundaries could've meant making him go to school (he's a drop out), not letting him get high in the house (as he admitted to), and not letting a 15 year old stay out all night going to point unknown (frequently part of the plot of the show). Boundaries are a good thing. Adults can't always make the right choices to keep from hurting themselves. Of course children need some guidance.
post #16 of 42
I too believe addiction can catch up with anyone, but I also believe in setting boundaries (we don't hit people, we don't play in the street, etc.) and making sure they're followed. There's a wide range of what boundaries people consider acceptable, but I personally think it does a child a disservice to never let them experience the consequences of their actions. And this DOESN'T mean natural consequences in the sense of "let them get hit by a car if they play in the street"! That's my $.02.
post #17 of 42
I am not impling that children should not be given any guidlines what so ever...............

I am only stating that from my experiance, just as many kids with strict, moderate or no guidlines, develop the type of drug problem that Jack has......................


I spent one hour ,one on one with the head of the youth unit from Hazeldon, most likely the top rehab center in the world.
I asked him what was the one thing he saw that all the kids who came through there had in common. He did not say a word about family values, two vs one parent house holds, economic levels, parenting styles.....the only connection he found was a group of kids who had somehow never learned to love themselves...........


Granolamom
post #18 of 42
I just felt the need to jump in here, because it is an interesting discussion. I agree that the Osbournes are an extreme. They are not only addicts themselves, but live a lifestyle that most of us probably don't understand, the celebrity and attention they receive. I also don't believe there are any guarentees in our parenting. That said, I can not leave it up to chance either.
I agree with Jen and her girls about teaching, and above all, modeling respect for others as well as yourself. I have seen many children who are basically allowed to treat other children and their own parents any way they feel like. These children are rarely told "no" or redirected in some way. These children aren't happy kids. I have always felt it was my job to encourage positive behaviors in my kids, not by force, but because they need to get along with others. I can love them all over, but if no one else likes them, I have done them a disservice. I see lots of kids that don't say "thank you" or "goodbye" when their friend says goodbye to them. I am sorry this sounds like a rant, but it bothers me. My children are polite and kind to others, and I see alot of kids not reciprocating and it being excused as "they are just kids".
I just think that children need boundaries and some limits to feel comfortable in the world. Everything can be so overwhelming when you are little. I f you don't give them that when they are young, when do you start? I hope my children feel a sense of family, of belonging and responsibility as they grow up. I also plan to be open about drugs and alcohol, in our family and in general, as the kids are ready. Thanks for the thought provoking discussion.
post #19 of 42

I think we have 2 different issues in the same thread....

One being that kids need/don't need boundaries and rules and another about the causes of drug addiction.

I can't say that had the Osbournes been more strict with Jack that he would have escaped a drug addiction. I also believe that to some extent addiction is genetic, not just a choice. But perhaps, had the Osbournes had some guidelines and rules for Jack to follow he would not have been hanging out with kids who were drinking, smoking, doing drugs. If he had had a curfew or been required to account for where he was going then *maybe* he would have had less of a chance of getting into such situations without any consequences.

And I do believe that kids with rules imposed by parents who respect thier individuality tend to be better behaved. Of course, I have no scientific proof of this, I have my own experience and that of other parents around me. In my house I was the first, and the only girl. I was the one who had all the rules. I was not allowed to drink in high school, and the few times that I did I got in trouble. I was not allowed to speed, my license was taken away when I got a ticket. I was made to treat my parents and others with respect. I was a pretty good kid, and I would consider myself an exemplary adult. However, my two younger brothers were a different story. My parents stopped enforcing the rules after me - my brothers got away with murder. My youngest brother was allowed to go out drinking with his friends, he was smoking pot while driving around on a pretty regular basis, he basically failed all of his classes in high school. There was more than one occasion when he would come home on a school night and my mom and I would have to take him to the hospital to have his stomach pumped. He was definitely on the road to nowhere, and my parents didn't do a damn thing about it. Boys will be boys, we're just glad he has friends, blah blah blah! After the night he was in a car accident because he was drinking and driving I decided that I was going to have to fix the problem. So I sat him down and told him that he was throwing his life away. I explained that with as much alcoholism as we have in our family that he could not afford to be drinking so recklessly, and that if he didn't get his act together he was going to be a useless burnout for the rest of his life. In response to that he stopped drinking so much, cut down on his pot usage, and started studying with my help. He was able to graduate high school without the alcholism monkey on his back, he had a GPA, and he went to college. He is now totally straight, is married and has a family of his own. Thanks in no part to my parents.

So there is my evidence. Two kids raised in the same family with two different sets of rules, and two totally different paths.

Sure, if a kid is genetically predispositioned to become an alcoholic, then you won't necessarily be able to stop it. But you certainly can increase their chances of overcoming it if you give them a good example to follow and some reasonable guidelines to live by.
post #20 of 42
Of course the idea of bounderies is simplified! I even think that the Osborns interview is a news bite, ulta simplified, peared down version of their own reality. I don't watch the show. It drives me crazy!!! After I watch it, I feel like I should be stting them all down and doing some family modeling therapy.

I do believe in setting some limits but I also understand that as a child grows it is their job to cross those limits and learn from the exsperience. I don't think limits would have kept the kid clean. He has way to much othe sh*t going on that contribute to his need to "get away."

I also agree with Granolamom that there isn't any gaurantees due to parenting style. And that isn't just for drugs, it is anything. Last January, a AP raised, homeschooled 22 yr old kid kidnapped and murdered a 19 yr old kid in my town.
Yuck!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Parenting
This thread is locked  
Mothering › Forums › Parenting › 'The mistake...is we never set any boundaries.'