Formula Frenzy outside of the US? - Page 2

[erika978]

Ireland has horrendously low rates of breastfeeding. Less than half of mothers are bf leaving the hospital and most have stopped by 3 months.

"not enough milk" is the usual reason given. But to be honest, the support and information is deplorable. I was given so much differing information from the midwives, paeds and PHNs. In the hospital, the midwives were run of thier feet but complained when you needed their help and then would look down their noses at the mothers who asked for formula.

And the amount of times I heard bad advice given to new mums by the public health nurses. A friend of mine, who really wanted to bf, ended up pumping to feed her baby and then supplementing because the PHN told her this was the only way to increase her supply. Needless to say, by 4 months her baby was on formula.

NIP is protected by law but there are many places where you would be treated badly for NIP. I don't care and just zone out people. But many new mums don't feel comfortable doing it (that said some bottlefeeders say the same thing. go figure).

We have good things in place - the law, a bad on advertising for formula for babies 6 months and under, no free samples and fairly good maternity leave. THis should help. But there is such bad one on one support, so much misinformation and a general culture that sees breastfeeding as "vile and disgusting". Its frustrating to say the least.

[Onemagicmummy]

you can and do get some formula samples over here is the UK but its thru signing up to formaula compaines websites for "feeding advice" i signed up to ow and GAte when i had one of the kids and recieved 20 sachets of follow on milk and im sure i got some 1st stage milk adn baby rice. you can get formual samples, baby food samples in the "bounty progress pack" but i thinkthis may have changed since i had may youngest.

we are very formula is good here but more and more people are BFing.

when i had DS2 i had formaul in the house "jsut in case" and it did come in usefull when i was so sick i could not move off the loo riht around feeding time so Dh fed teh aby a bottle to tide him over till i was better again. turned out it was just that one feed.

what annoyes me is the so calleed Health Porfessionals who think they know best when they are woefully undertrained and know nowt really.

DS2 was starting to shallow a bit in his weight at 5 an half months(right around crawling and a growth spurt adn introduction of solids" i was TOLD i had to give him bottles to get his weight up as i was going to damage his brain if i didnt. i did the FF dance to please them and hated myself every second of the time iwas forcing my son to drink they nasty crap. he hated it, i was in tears DH was beside himself unable to help me or DS, we tried 3 or 4 different bottles 3 differetn milks and he still hated it. i lived with this for 2 weeks my milk went funny and DS was forcing down 3 bottels a day adn jsut using me as top up.
i changed my mind. the "professionals" were nothappy about this and truly expectedme to fai but i researched, bought fenugreek, a breast pump, got advice from a breast feeding councelor, fed him loads n loads, and after a couple of weeks i was producing so much milk my DD was havingthe spare in a cup. DS2 weight stayed onthe same %tile line steadliy. he is now 20 month old (no longer BF weaned at14 motnhs) and weights MORE than hsi sister who is 12 month OLDER than him

the pressure i felt to "give him a bottle" was awful, why couldnt they have refered me to a breastfeeding councilor? or reasured me that all i need to do was feed him more. whats scary is my Health Visitor event told me i knew more about brastfeeding than her, that bodes well

i have a new HV now and have told her straight i will not be giving new baby formula unless i deem it necesarry(like i am so ill i cant get off loo and i have no other alternitive)and taht i dont go off babys weight to asertain healthyness, she seems OK with that.

we have come a long way since i had DS1 5 years ago but there is still so much more can be done.

Kiz

[Demeter9]

BF rates in Canada are about equivalent as the US.

I is becoming far more common for people to try to BF. Hospitals are getting very pro-BF.

I think that it might change faster here than in the US. We are more liberal in general. Our populace is more likely to "Mind their business" than to say something to people who are nursing, and the culture at large isn't nearly as vehemently anti-bf. And we get a year mat leave, and that is slowly (very slowly) working.

[EVC]

In Ukraine (where dh is from) it is seen as an absolute TRAGEDY if a mother can't breasfeed for some reason....And in Armenia (where I had dd) it's pretty much the same--breastfeeding is the default option for feeding. It is just assumed that a new mother will bf. No one EVER asked me whether I planned to bf or ff--it was simply taken for granted that I would bf.

[pumpkinhead]

Breastfeeding rates are higher in Canada than in the US. We have a much higher initiation rate, but only slightly better duration rates.

http://www.kellymom.com/writings/bf-numbers.html

[EdnaMarie]

Where I am, most women breastfeed. In the larger cities, formula is catching on because it is a sign of affluence, and also because people believe that breastfeeding gives you droopy breasts and they are not aware of the health dangers of formula.

Malnutrition and poverty do mean that some women have vitamin deficiencies and poor supplies, so breastfeeding is dropping off earlier and earlier as people get poorer and poorer (especially with iodine deficiencies and the resulting thyroid problems). They supplement with whatever they can get- white flour mixed with tapwater is common among the poor, with cow's milk mixed with farina considered the "ideal" for those who cannot afford infant formula.

Binkies are also really popular, and mixed with the special swaddling cradles, they use this to calm a hungry baby (the grandmother or another person rocks while the mom attends to chores). So in effect there is some schedule feeding.

Muslim tradition still mandates breastfeeding but many women are unaware that this is actually written in the Qu'ran. A lot of young women see that women in the cities formula feed and believe that this is actually better.

In our family, my MIL is very pro-breastfeeding and my daughter actually gets more breastmilk than any of her cousins. MIL is very happy about this. But we're in the city. I haven't been to a lot of villages lately.

[grumpybear]

Philippines

The Philippines has very low breastfeeding rates especially among those with lower incomes (ironic, isn't it?) and less education.
The government and advocates however are starting to be more proactive in encouraging and campaigning for breastfeeding.
One of the newest and biggest malls there actually have breastfeeding stations in different areas of the mall. It's pretty nice albeit I'd still worry about the cleanliness. I saw a cockroach in there when trying to breastfeed.
It's still not very common to nurse in public. I tried to do my part in the advocacy by not drawing the curtains in so people could see that women actually NIP. I felt a little bit like a circus attraction with stares and fingers pointed towards my direction though.

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by RoundAbout

Does anyone know about New Zealand? Just curious because I will be heading there for Christmas when my DS is a 12 month old.

NIP is normal. Parent's rooms there ROCK - they are everywhere and have a containment device for older kids (like a cot or play area), changing table, microwave, power point. You're expected to change your child there or heat food, not nurse.

rates aren't stellar but are good - 80-90% initiate, down to 50% at 6 months. Race is a predictor of continued BFing.

[Can Dance]

Originally Posted by erika978

Ireland has horrendously low rates of breastfeeding. Less than half of mothers are bf leaving the hospital and most have stopped by 3 months.

"not enough milk" is the usual reason given. But to be honest, the support and information is deplorable. I was given so much differing information from the midwives, paeds and PHNs. In the hospital, the midwives were run of thier feet but complained when you needed their help and then would look down their noses at the mothers who asked for formula.

And the amount of times I heard bad advice given to new mums by the public health nurses. A friend of mine, who really wanted to bf, ended up pumping to feed her baby and then supplementing because the PHN told her this was the only way to increase her supply. Needless to say, by 4 months her baby was on formula.

NIP is protected by law but there are many places where you would be treated badly for NIP. I don't care and just zone out people. But many new mums don't feel comfortable doing it (that said some bottlefeeders say the same thing. go figure).

We have good things in place - the law, a bad on advertising for formula for babies 6 months and under, no free samples and fairly good maternity leave. THis should help. But there is such bad one on one support, so much misinformation and a general culture that sees breastfeeding as "vile and disgusting". Its frustrating to say the least.

I am going to Ireland in a month. I will have to NIP my 15 month old

[EdnaMarie]

The Philippines has very low breastfeeding rates especially among those with lower incomes (ironic, isn't it?) and less education.

Al Jazeera just did a report on this. It's not on the website yet, though.

[Peppermint Poppies]

I would agree with wannabe. Breastfeeding is the norm in Australia, although FF is certainly very common too. I think the rates are something like 85-90% mums breastfeed when they leave hospital, and 50% of mums are still b/feeding at 6 months. NIP is totally normal and is specifically protected by our Anti-Discrimination legislation. Infant formula is not allowed to be advertised, in line with the WHO code, although toddler formulas are.

Whilst a lot of mums FF over here, most at least give b/feeding a try. There is a lot of emphasis at the moment on finding out what sort of supports are needed to encourage women to breastfeed for longer.

In my mothers group of 10 women, there is only 1 woman who FF from birth. Everybody else is still breastfeeding so far, and our babes are all around 4 months old.

[MilkTrance]

Originally Posted by Demeter9

we get a year mat leave [in canada], and that is slowly (very slowly) working.

Yes, I think that is an important factor. It's easier to maintain BF when you can stay home with your LO.

[sweetieberlin]

here in berlin, I have seen tons of formula feeding..

in fact on my wbv book, that I got when discharged from hospital with ds at 4 days old, was a formula advertisement!!!

[erika978]

Originally Posted by Can Dance

I am going to Ireland in a month. I will have to NIP my 15 month old

Brilliant! NIP, enjoy and remember that if anyone complains, the owner and employees of the business have to support you, not the complainer. The law is on your side and you cannot be asked to leave or told to stop.

The only place you may not be allowed have your children is in pubs after 9 (or 7, I can't remember which).

[Celery]

Originally Posted by Can Dance

I am going to Ireland in a month. I will have to NIP my 15 month old

BTDT, with a 2 year old.

Hold you head high, be proud and TRY not to laugh in the face of some of the HORRIFIED looks you'll get. I BF all over the place for several weeks, but my two personal bests were sitting next to an old lady with sleeping/nursing toddler and chatting away. She peered at her face several times, so she must have realised, but never once missed a beat, which my friends tell me was amazing.

And then a meltdown in a big mall in Dublin, where I picked her up and carried her (nursing) out to the car. You would have thought I was dragging her by one leg facedown from the looks of horror. It was the funniest thing I've ever seen. One woman was dragging two screaming kids with one hand and a cigarette with the other, and she scowled at me!!!!! No-one said anything, though.

My friend lives there and nurses her two year old 20+ times a day and has never had a comment - dirty looks, but not comments.

[AstridS]

Here in Denmark, nursing is very much the norm. In fact, we have a 97% breastfeedning initiation rate. However, nursing past one year is absolutely not expected and I get a lot of curious looks, when I'm nursing my 2 year old.
There is this very annoying myth, that I'm constantly trying to debunk, that you can't continue nursing when you go back to work. So when the one year maternity leave ends, most babies are weaned : . The WHO-code is followed, but all that means is, that nestle promotes their jarred babyfood and baby cereal instead of formula. That way they can work around the code and still make their name known :. While I was pregnant I got no formula samples but lots of baby cereal samples labeled "+4 months". So the formulaindustry still tries to get to babies as young as possible . In general hospitals no not give out samples of any kind. But the pp nurse did give me som lansinoh samples to take home, to help with my sore and bleeding nipples, when she saw that my nursingpads were soaked in blood rahter than milk .
Only regular formula is sold at supermarkets. You have to get a prescription, to get the hypoallergenic kind, like nutramigen and profylac.
Nursing is considered the norm of infant feeding. When I gave birth to DD1 in the hospital, i had 24-7 access to an LC. When I gave birth to DD2 at home, with a cnm from the local hospital, an LC stopped by the next day and the cnm called me every day for the first week to check up on how everything, including bresatfeeding was working out.
All in all it's very breastfeeding-friendly here, but of course nestle is doing all it can to sabotage it.

[pixiemammy]

Originally Posted by erika978
Ireland has horrendously low rates of breastfeeding. Less than half of mothers are bf leaving the hospital and most have stopped by 3 months.
.....
But there is such bad one on one support, so much misinformation and a general culture that sees breastfeeding as "vile and disgusting". Its frustrating to say the least.

Agree with everything erika said! Also I had DD in one of the main Dublin Maternity hospitals where, bizarrely, in my ward 4 out of the 6 mothers said they had to FF as their baby wasn't able to latch on (is the human race forgetting how to feed itself, or perhaps the midwives need more training in helping mothers get started?) ;-)

In any case, in the room where we changed the nappies was a cupboard full of those premade formula bottles free for the taking! That interests me because in a country where formula companies can't advertise, there must be big competition to get your brand into the hospital!

Personally, DD is 9 1/2 months, and we've NIP'ed everywhere, people just look away, they mostly get embarrassed.

Originally Posted by Can Dance View Post
I am going to Ireland in a month. I will have to NIP my 15 month old

Can Dance, if you're interested, there's a little pdf booklet here about your rights in Ireland, handy to read!

[PoshPants]

UK hospitals have the cabinet with milk. Since they are not allowed to suggest one over another mothers aren't told which are "better" milks. Also I saw mothers go between all the brands! : mainly cause they were told they were all the same (which isn't true) and they wanted to know which one baby would like

[erika978]

OT but pixiemammy, which hospital were you at? I gave birth in the Coombe. Some of the midwives were wonderful and a great help with breastfeeding, others had me in tears. DD was in SCBU for 8 days and one nurse was my godsend. She was so calm with me and really gave me back my confidence. Breastfeeding took off because of her wonderful guidance. And I'm not even sure she had children herself!