Babywise strikes again....grrr

[phreedom]

Not sure where this goes. More of a vent I guess. I just want to say I HATE that book. When I was pg with dd I bought it, without even reading it and finding out what it was all about. Needless to say I never used it. But apparently there are people who still read it...I'm dealing with some parents of a NICU baby that are determined to "babywise" their baby starting NOW...did I mention the kid was STILL in the NICU?! It gets even better...they are also going to exclusively breastfeed...on a schedule. They are also adamant the baby is not to receive formula AT ALL. (I'll explain why this is becoming a problem...)

I have seen how difficult if can be for NICU mamas to keep thier supply up when being separated from thier babe. And I just want to say I commend the mamas who do it. But I'm afraid this mama is setting herself up for failure by trying to follow this babywise crap. When she was in the hospital we would call her to the unit when her baby was hungry so she could come nurse, several times she would refuse saying it's not "time" for him to eat yet. She has even been pumping on a schedule that she has determined he "should" be on when she can't come to the unit to nurse him (as in...she's not pumping at night...since that's when he "should" be sleeping). And when she does nurse him she nurses him for a specified amount of time on each breast (10-15 minutes). No more, no less. Consequently she isn't pumping a whole lot of milk. She brings in about an 1.5-2 ounces and expects us to "stretch" this for 12 hours. The baby is on ad lib/on demand feeds right now. So far he hasn't needed formula to supplement his feeds, but I'm afraid he's going to soon. He's starting to eat more and she's not producing. She has stated several times she does not want him to have formula. And for medical reasons he is going to be in the NICU for a while longer. If shes not pumping enough and will not come nurse then eventually the baby is going to have to get formula, whether she likes it or not. (I honestly don't know about a milkbank as an option...we don't have one around here, and I've never seen it used here)

The staff, the LC, everyone has tried to explain to her about supply and demand, the disadvantages of scheduling, not watching the clock ect. to no avail. I just feel so bad because she is already setting herself up for failure. She refuses to listen to anyone. Staff has done everything within our power to accomodate her BFing, but she won't have it. She seems very loving towards her child, so I don't know if it's PPD or what. Her husband is also very pushy about the schedule thing. When anyone tries to offer to help he shoos them away and tells us they know what they are doing.

I'm just worried for this baby when he goes home. I'm afraid he has FTT written all over him. Any other suggestions on how we can get through to this mother. I really just want to come out and tell her that BabyWise is crap.

[ibbit]

That is SO sad. That poor baby. Ok, I shouldn't read posts like this when I'm pregnant, because I'm crying. Over a baby who's still getting fed right now... I'm crying over his future.. geez.. hormones! Anyways, I hope she sooner or later gets it.

Would it work for someone to tell her it MIGHT be ok to schedule a full term baby or her baby once he's out of the nicu, but she needs to be flexible at least for now? Maybe it would work towards changing her mind.

[AutumnMama]

That poor babe, that is so horrible!
I once babysat for a person like that, it was very upsetting knowing I wasn't supposed to be feeding him when he was still hungry.

[phreedom]

That stupid book gives such extreme examples. They make it sound like if you BF on demand it's this horrible crippling experience. You won't be able to do anything, because your kid is going to be hanging off of your boob 24/7...oh and they will also grow up to be self centered brats that rob banks and torture kittens for fun (okay kidding about the last 2 parts).

The book seems to emphasize how putting your babe on a schedule like this will allow the mom more freedom because she won't be catering to the demands on her infant. I actually find the opposite to be true. Instead "catering to the demands" of your infant, you are a slave to that stupid "schedule".

I allowed my dd to nurse on demand and after a few weeks she just kind of naturally fell into her own schedule. Some days she nursed more frequently than others. But after a few weeks she became very efficient at nursing and was done quickly. By about 5.5 months she was sleeping for 7-8 stretches on her own. I didn't schedule her or do CIO, I just let her to her thing. She does sleep in her own crib though.

[elmh23]

YIKES! Has anyone approached her with that maybe this would work for a baby who isn't in the NICU (aka healthy) but for sick babies it will just lead to ftt? Also, is this their first baby?

Good luck and I'll keep that little baby in my prayers.

[Decca]

I refuse to believe that even Ezzo would advise scheduled feeding for a NICU baby. This sounds like the parents in question have grossly misunderstood the book.

Do you think the situation might escalate to the point of calling CPS?

[Emmeline II]

I don't have time to check out the links, but maybe there is info there to help you.

In York there is a problem with Babywise, 2nd edition. Conservative religious groups have embraced this book. The new book is toned down from the older version but does recommend limiting breastfeeding to encourage discipline. For info disputing Babywise see www.aap.org for a media alert from the AAP on Babywise or Dr. Matthew Aney's files at <http://www.ezzo.info/>www.ezzo.info or articles from the Christian Research Institute. Dr Dobson also has a reputable text. The coalition can include this topic in a future newsletter.

http://www.pabreastfeeding.org/meeti...ts/042401.html

My neighbor in Alaska who drove me to the airport (dh drove the ALCAN) gave me a Babywise lecture (for them it is religiously based); how the baby must sleep in another room after X number of weeks to preserve the marital relationship, yada yada yada .

[ksera05]

Y'all need to have a neonatologist sit down with her and tell her that if they are using that book, he will be FTT. Period. And then nicely point out that having a FTT baby is a very serious medical issue. And that he will be reluctant to release the baby if they aren't listening to the feeding advice given by the LC and the nurses.

Having had a NICU baby, I can't imagine blatantly disregarding people like that. It was made VERY CLEAR to me that my child would need to eat multiple times a night, etc. and that I needed to feed her at least X amount a day and that she needed to be gaining Y amount to be released, etc. And I was definitely one of those involved moms where things were done my way.

It sounds like that mom feels that her life is out of control right now and she's desperately trying to grab onto the one thing she can control, but unfortunately what she's trying to grab onto will injure her child and she is too blind to see that.

[thebarkingbird]

my experience w/ NICU was that my world was spinning out of controle and i was holding on to every idea i had about parenting trying to get it back. maybe that's the case for her. might be an angle from which to approach. let her know that it's normal to relax a bit and all the stress over doing things "right" won't help.

[phreedom]

It is their first baby. She seems to be a very intelligent well read woman. And I can see how this can be very confusing to her because the NICU IS very schedule oriented. On one hand mothers are being told to demand feed, but here a the baby's feeding times. Also the baby is term, so in her eyes he may not seem as susceptibe to FTT as a preemie. But he is sick. He is getting better though. And she has been encouraged to breastfeed on demand. I've told her the feeding schedules are mainly for the staff, so we can coordinate taking care of multiple babies. But no way are we going to let an infant cry because it's not "time" for them to eat.

The issue hasn't really come to a head yet, but I suspect it will once the baby has to start receiving formula. I just hope she listens. And I don't honestly seeing them releasing the baby without having having a clear picture on her level of understanding about breastfeeding and the possible need to supplement. At the very least a follow up with the LC.

[OllieMama]

What I find particularly upsetting about this book is that whenever I'm in the childcare section in barnes & noble or borders, this book is consistently the one with the most copies on the shelf. As in 10 or 15 copies. That says to unsuspecting parents that this is a reputable, popular book of value. I guess this is less of a gripe against ezzo as it is against the big book sellers, but still... I'm an adamant proponent of freedom of speech, but for this one, I'd almost be willing to look the other way, should somone decide to burn this book en masse... :

[melissakc]

I am surprised they are allowing her to do this. Maybe "allowing" is the wrong word. But when DD was in the NICU I was told how things are and what the schedule was. I was told that I had to supplement with formula until I was able to produce 25 ml of milk per feeding (that took a few days) and that I had to nurse her and then pump every 3 hours. (Looking back, I would have pushed for an on-demand set-up but what did I know then? Not much. And I was shell-shocked about being in the NICU at all.) Anyway, I tried for sooooooooo long to get them to release DD to the care of her ped so we could go home. I begged, I pleaded, I cried.... It took a lot to get her out of there. I can't imagine this NICU letting this baby go home if the stats aren't right. But I guess problems may not show up for a few weeks since babies are meant to last for 7-10 days with just colostrum and a little milk. (Geez, her supply is going to be shot if she keeps that up!)

And before they would release DD, the NICU nurses were required to sit me down and talk to me for a long time, going through a long list, about all the things I needed to know about caring for a NICU baby that others don't have to know. I hope some of that stuff will sink in with her. She sounds very stubborn, and with a preemie you have to be flexible! The books do not apply! Esp. that load of garbage.

[dancindoula]

Originally Posted by OllieMama

What I find particularly upsetting about this book is that whenever I'm in the childcare section in barnes & noble or borders, this book is consistently the one with the most copies on the shelf. As in 10 or 15 copies. That says to unsuspecting parents that this is a reputable, popular book of value. I guess this is less of a gripe against ezzo as it is against the big book sellers, but still... I'm an adamant proponent of freedom of speech, but for this one, I'd almost be willing to look the other way, should somone decide to burn this book en masse... :

Last time I was in the book store I realized someone had accidentally mis-shelved the Ezzo books in the baby section, so I decided to be Little Miss Helpful and re-shelve them in the proper section: Science Fiction. Y'know, anything to be of service. :

[CorasMama]

Originally Posted by dancindoula

Last time I was in the book store I realized someone had accidentally mis-shelved the Ezzo books in the baby section, so I decided to be Little Miss Helpful and re-shelve them in the proper section: Science Fiction. Y'know, anything to be of service. :

Omg!!! We do that, too! Even my 9-year-old gets in on the action. :

[OllieMama]

Last time I was in the book store I realized someone had accidentally mis-shelved the Ezzo books in the baby section, so I decided to be Little Miss Helpful and re-shelve them in the proper section: Science Fiction. Y'know, anything to be of service.

okay, that may be the most hilarious and awesome bit of subversive activism i've heard of in a while. yay for mischief with a cause

[Googy]

Originally Posted by dancindoula

Last time I was in the book store I realized someone had accidentally mis-shelved the Ezzo books in the baby section, so I decided to be Little Miss Helpful and re-shelve them in the proper section: Science Fiction. Y'know, anything to be of service. :

That is the coolest thing I have ever heard! I'm going to have to try that one! Maybe I will put the Ferber books there too...

Seriously, though, I am a professor of early childhood/child development and I come across this while Ezzo kind of thinking all the time. It drives me up my tree. I purposely give lectures on the necessities for proper brain development--touch and constant responsiveness being the two most important factors. I teach about attachment theory and the importance of breastfeeding, etc. I can only hope that the young women in my class (they are almost all women in this major) will remember some of this, take away pieces with them and hold this information dear when they have their own children. I keep hoping that perhaps I can work to create a few less Ezzo and Ferber followers in this world...a girl can dream!

Seriously, though OP, I am so sorry that you are dealing with this. It must be absolutely heartbreaking and I truly admire your dedication and resolve.

[Meiri]

Can you print out the information from the sites that refute Ezzo's claims, including his religious ones?

Have the doctor sit down with them and put it in black and white: if you do this, you will be harming your child, and we will be forced to report you to CPS for neglect. I do not make that suggestion lightly, but maybe the 2x4 to the head of "babies die from not being fed" will wake them up to the reality of their situation?

[RootSnort]

Here's where the AAP says that Babywise is associated with FTT.
http://www.ezzo.info/Aney/aneyaap.htm
This man must be stopped.

My ds sets our schedule. He decides when to eat and when to sleep. We may make suggestions, but he is in charge and has shown excellent judgement. I am so proud of our smart, happy little one!

[Googy]

Do you know WHY this couple is so enamored with babywise? Is it for theological reasons or just philosophical ones? If it is for theological reasons, you could print out material from well-known Christian groups who do NOT support Ezzo and GFI, like Focus on Family. If they are just following Babywise because they think Ezzo is some great parenting expert, I would mention that Ezzo has NO medical training (or theological training for that matter) and show them that the AAP has a whole website dedicated to why this book is so damaging. Not to mention sleep experts like James McKenna, who is the director of the Mother-Baby Sleep Lab at the University of Notre Dame have written extensively about the fallacies of this program. If you need more academic information on this, please let me know and I can send you links to research articles.

[Evie]

Originally Posted by Decca

I refuse to believe that even Ezzo would advise scheduled feeding for a NICU baby. This sounds like the parents in question have grossly misunderstood the book.

I agree.

I'm certainly no fan of Babywise, though I did read the book because I think it's important to know the opposing viewpoint. (I checked it out from the library so as not to give Ezzo any of my money.) Granted, I read the most recent edition (2006, maybe?), but even he suggested that parents not look at the clock for the first few weeks. Now, my understanding is that earlier editions of the book were more radical, leading to some very defensive posturing in the latest version. (Don't even get me started on his oft-repeated assertion that it is on-demand feeding, not Babywise scheduling, that often causes FTT.) Perhaps these parents are relying on an older edition of the book? At any rate, I am also surprised that they are being "allowed" to do this, given what I know about managed care.

I hope someone gets through to them soon so that their hopes of exclusively breastfeeding are not dashed.