or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Childhood and Beyond › Preteens and Teens › Anyone randomly drug test your teen?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Anyone randomly drug test your teen? - Page 3

post #41 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanbaby View Post
I have an entirely different viewpoint about this. First of all, I don't punish my children. So right there we are going to be approaching this differently. I can't think of a single person I knew in highschool whose drug/alcohol related behavior changed by being grounded. They just got better at lying.

As far how to do something that is illegal responsibly? I don't live my life based on what is legal or not. I do what I think is right for me and my family, and I want my children to learn to use their best judgement based on what is happening for them at any given time, not on whatever the ever changing screwed up idiots in charge happen to say is okay. So yes, drinking/doing drugs responsibily will be a huge discussion in our house in the upcoming years. I think there is a big distinction between smoking a joint at a friend's house and smoking crack. I think there is a big difference between having a beer when at home watching a movie and drunk driving. There is a big difference between taking mushrooms when out camping with friends and taking them at a concert in a big city. There's a big difference between buying a bag of weed on the streetcorner and buying from a friend you know well who grows it himself.

I don't subscribe to the Just Say No campaign to end drug use, and I don't subscribe to abstinence as a way to prevent teen pregnancy. I think both are completely useless at best, and probably do more harm than good since they mainly serve to put a wall up between teenagers and the adults that could be guiding them. The vast majority of teenagers, no matter how they are raised or how "good" they are, are going to try drugs/alcohol/sex at some point. I much prefer that I be of use in guiding in them in making smart, responsible choices when they do, rather than having them lie to me because they are afraid of being punished. They are in far less danger when they call me to pick them up drunk or high from a party than if they get into a drunk/high friend's car to get home.

My primary job as their parent is to keep them safe. And I can only do that if we have a completely open and non punitive dialogue about anything that is going on in their life.
Yes and more yes to this post. I am so glad to finally find this level of thinking on this board.


In the book Siddartha, there is a chapter on The Son -- when Siddartha has to accept the path that his son has chosen. It is so very difficult sometimes when we parents think we know what is best for our kids and witness them making choices that scare us for them.

Alaskan Teach: I do not believe your statement that the felon kids of whom you speak came from families that were not punitive. It is just a blanket statement that is not based on truth. People do what people do.

Punishment really makes relationships with people very negative. I do not punish -- and all of my dss' friends who get punished have some very clever ways of getting around their parents. I call them the Eddie Haskels'. Their parents have an illusion of control. Punishing has taught them to be very good at hiding "evidence". It also creates so much resentment.

A good book that questions this idea of punishing is Alfie Kohn's book "Punished by Rewards".
post #42 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog View Post
: I am shocked by this thread. My parents were paranoid and controlling and even they never went this far, and yet, the people in this thread do NOT seem as paranoid and controlling as my parents...and they think this is normal and OK parenting? I am honestly lost and confused by the logic being put forth here.

I am not someone who takes the issue of drugs and alcohol lightly or thinks it's no big deal, either. I basically lost one of the most awesome friends I have ever had to addiction, and I have a very close family member who seems to be struggling with those issues as we speak. I've never even done pot. But I find the idea of random drug testing to be so dehumanizing and demoralizing. I cannot imagine doing that to my kid. If I felt she had a problem, I'd find a better, more effective way of helping her. I don't think that kind of "GOTCHA!" thing ever helps kids. It just shames them.

I am NOT paranoid or controllingbut was a very worried and concerned parent who was going through a rough patch with her teen.

Honestly when my son started royally screwing up at school, fighting everyone and anyone, started jumping out of his bedroom window in the middle of the night which then progressed to him being gone for DAYS, constantly getting phone calls from the police about him for this reason or that, talk about maybe being initiated into a gang and most of all totally disrespecting the family unit that gave me every right to do whatever I could to figure out what the heck was going on. Also, are people assuming that we just did a random drug test and grounded our children and that’s it?!?! I hope not because that would be extremely insulting to me. The testing was just one tool and let me tell ya I was yanking tools out of my parenting toolbox left, right and centre. Anyway I don’t test anymore and haven’t as there isn’t a need anymore but at the time we had no idea what exactly we were dealing with and I felt I was out to save my child’s life.
post #43 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrugglingMomX's2 View Post
I am NOT paranoid or controllingbut was a very worried and concerned parent who was going through a rough patch with her teen.

Honestly when my son started royally screwing up at school, fighting everyone and anyone, started jumping out of his bedroom window in the middle of the night which then progressed to him being gone for DAYS, constantly getting phone calls from the police about him for this reason or that, talk about maybe being initiated into a gang and most of all totally disrespecting the family unit that gave me every right to do whatever I could to figure out what the heck was going on. Also, are people assuming that we just did a random drug test and grounded our children and that’s it?!?! I hope not because that would be extremely insulting to me. The testing was just one tool and let me tell ya I was yanking tools out of my parenting toolbox left, right and centre. Anyway I don’t test anymore and haven’t as there isn’t a need anymore but at the time we had no idea what exactly we were dealing with and I felt I was out to save my child’s life.


I commend you for doing everything you could during such a hard time. I don't see testing as anything but one more way to get information we need to help our kids.
post #44 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post
I can see specific situations in which random drug testing might be appropriate, but I wouldn't do it as a precautionary measure. I think the loss of trust from the testing could cause far more problems than it would solve- if the child is already very open and trusting with his or her parents.

However, if there was already a lack of trust between parent and child, and the child was showing signs of drug abuse, I can see how it can be appropriate.


That's what I think. In the majority of cases, not okay. But some situations it may be more understandable, but I am thinking that they would be few and far between.

I am very much against drug testing for jobs.

With that, I will say *puff puff* :
post #45 of 63
Thread Starter 
I want to thank everyone for their thoughtful responses. We never thought we'd be in a situation where we would even consider drug testing our child, but yet here we are. In our case, we would not be using the tests as a "Gotcha", or means to punish. We really feel the need to regain the trust that we've had with ds all of his life until this. The most devastating part of all of this is knowing that, despite our very open, trusting and loving relationship, ds still lied to us for 10 months. His occasional pot smoking escalated to several times a week and he had also been doing mushrooms. Many of his friends had escalated into much bigger problems. We need concrete information about what is going on with ds, and do not trust that we can get that info. from him right now. Hopefully, we'll be back to trusting soon but we can't take any chances with his health and safety while we work towards that. The fact that ds seems relieved to have been caught, and his seeing random testing as a positive thing makes it easier. We are not approaching it with a "If it comes back positive you are grounded for life" attitude. DS knows without a doubt that we love and support him. DS understands that we can't help and support him unless we know what we are really dealing with, and he understands that he needs to earn back our trust.

We are still working through this. We've bought at-home 12 panel tests, as well as the standing order at the lab. We haven't used either yet, but will if we feel the need. The tests are a parenting tool that we now feel the need to have on hand...even if we never feel the need to use them. There is nothing worse than having your beloved child look you in the eye and tell you something, and you can no longer believe it to be true automatically. Until we get back there, he may need to prove that he's telling the truth for a while. DS welcomes the chance, he says that he doesn't plan to go back to it, but even if he does it will be better knowing that he really has to tell us. He found sneaking around and lying to be very stressful, but just couldn't seem to tell us what was going on. He feels that knowing that a test could catch him in a lie will keep him honest. Honesty is the goal here, and if this is what it will take for a while, we will do it. DS is just too important to leave up to wishful thinking - at this point we need to feel confident that we are all on the right path together.

This thread has really helped us think through this issue. I'm sure how we deal with this will evolve as time goes on. I'm glad this started such a thoughtful discussion...hopefully it will help others who are in a similar situation now, or may be some day.
post #46 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by karina5 View Post
I am very much against drug testing for jobs.

With that, I will say *puff puff* :
My DH's company has random drug tests. His entire industry requires it -- it's considered a public safety issue. (He engineers airplanes, and for some odd reason, the FFA thinks that people who do that shouldn't use drugs.)
post #47 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
My DH's company has random drug tests. His entire industry requires it -- it's considered a public safety issue. (He engineers airplanes, and for some odd reason, the FFA thinks that people who do that shouldn't use drugs.)


I can see the range of jobs and drug testing, but really, I am against drug testing for pretty much all jobs.

But it does make more sense to me to drug test a person in your H's job than someone who works at Wal-Mart, which I think is ludicrous.
post #48 of 63
Off-topic:

As far as drug testing and safety at work goes, studies have shown that the greatest number of accidents in the workplace are caused by fatigue. This includes the biggies - airline pilots, bus drivers, etc. We would be much safer if we implemented "performance testing" (a brief test that happens every day or before every shift that shows that the person is able to perform their job safely, regardless of why they may be compromised) rather than drug testing. But everyone seems to embrace drug testing. Doesn't really make sense from a statistical standpoint.
post #49 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizafava View Post

Also, it doesn't take a wiz kid to pass a drug test. The internet is full of helpful information for people who need to pass drug tests. Plenty of chronic pot smokers pass piss tests simply by drinking lots of water.
Really? I always wondered about that, because I've worked in fields where drug testing was random and I knew people who should have been busted but never were. Inquiring minds want to know.

FTR, I have many years ago smoked with people who were on probation and subject to drug tests and they swore that drinking vinegar helped them beat the tests. I still don't get it.
post #50 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
My DH's company has random drug tests. His entire industry requires it -- it's considered a public safety issue. (He engineers airplanes, and for some odd reason, the FFA thinks that people who do that shouldn't use drugs.)
Just have a nice long talk with your DH about how to use illegal drugs safely and responsibly and he'll be all set....
post #51 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
My DH's company has random drug tests. His entire industry requires it -- it's considered a public safety issue. (He engineers airplanes, and for some odd reason, the FFA thinks that people who do that shouldn't use drugs.)
How do they feel about him taking vicodin? How do they feel about him drinking?

I am not saying that all drug usage is okay, go party it up and fly the plane the next day. I am pointing out that someone who smoked a joint last week is a whole lot safer than someone who only got 3 hours sleep the previous night.

Drug testing for workplace safety is illogical. Performance testing has been proven over and over to be what guarantees safety at the workplace.

And yes, I did pass a drug test when I was in college, and should not have. There was an herbal tea I bought at the local vitamin store. I drank a few quarts of it the day before the test, and no problems. What I find funny is that no one performed a background check for this job. It was a summer internship working at Pacific Bell, and while there was no safety issue involved, I had access to every single customer's entire phone history, credit history, credit/bank account, social security number, etc.
post #52 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusBirthMama View Post
Just have a nice long talk with your DH about how to use illegal drugs safely and responsibly and he'll be all set....
Do you think there is a responsible way to drink alcohol? Or is a glass of wine at dinner, waiting for an hour, and then driving, the same thing as 5 shots and then getting behind the wheel?

It's the same concept. I'm not sure why it's so hard to understand.

And with regard to teenagers: "Just Say No" campaigns, whether with respect to drugs or sex, don't work.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0423-04.htm

http://www.chiprowe.com/articles/just-say-no-dare.html
post #53 of 63
I agree with posters who have said that there is no logic w/ drug testing. I could care less if my airline pilot smoked pot last week. Better than the airline pilot who was so hungover he could barely function (I had 2 good friends who were flight attendants, and this was not uncommon).

So yeah, I am pretty much against drug testing for ALL jobs, as I don't find it keeps anyone any safer.
post #54 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceanbaby View Post
How do they feel about him taking vicodin? How do they feel about him drinking?

I am not saying that all drug usage is okay, go party it up and fly the plane the next day. I am pointing out that someone who smoked a joint last week is a whole lot safer than someone who only got 3 hours sleep the previous night.

Drug testing for workplace safety is illogical. Performance testing has been proven over and over to be what guarantees safety at the workplace.

And yes, I did pass a drug test when I was in college, and should not have. There was an herbal tea I bought at the local vitamin store. I drank a few quarts of it the day before the test, and no problems. What I find funny is that no one performed a background check for this job. It was a summer internship working at Pacific Bell, and while there was no safety issue involved, I had access to every single customer's entire phone history, credit history, credit/bank account, social security number, etc.
I worked for a SW Bell in the 80s when drug testing was not the norm. It was common practice for people to drink at lunch, smoke pot in bathrooms or on their lunch hours, drive company vehicles under the influence, you name it.
And yes, any random idiot had access to personal information. I went out with a guy who told me a story about being so messed up on the clock once that he hit a wrong way do not enter sign with a company vehicle and his boss covered it up because he was his party buddy.

Scary stuff.
post #55 of 63
Quote:
I really don't understand how a child with even mildly involved parents could be using coke (which is very expensive) or be an alcoholic without the parents having a clue.
Speaking from my own sordid past, it is very easy to do drugs and not pay for them. Everyone has a friend with some extra cash, and people dont like to get high or drunk on their own. So they give it to others. During my party years, I did every manner of illegal drug short of shooting up, and spent probably $100 on it in the entire 6 yr period. Most of my friends were the same way. I used to date/hang with a guy who never spent a single dime of his money on drugs yet was messed up a good 6 nights a week, the entire time that I knew him. And don't get me started on how easily someone could do drugs for free if they were selling them... So money can be part of it, but it doesnt have to be. Drugs can be a very scary thing. I am against drug use because of the scars it has left on me, thankfully more from seeing other's lives ruined than my own. But I am not so vemenently against it that I would ground my son for calling me too messed up to get home on his own. I would even let him have a drink if he wanted it some day. I talk to him a lot about being responsible about his choices, be it sex, drugs, etc.

As for the OP's question... I don't know. I have not been in your situation, but I do not have a trust relationship with my DS. He lies, he has always lied. No matter how much we love him or how much respect and autonomy we give him, he seems to have a pathalogical need to lie (his father, my ex, was the same way so sometimes I wonder if its a genetic predisposition).

I would like to say that I would not drug test, and thinking back at my high school years I would be incredibly hurt and offended if my parents did that to me, so I would hope that I would not do it. It would take something that effected a major paradigm shift for me to decide to drug test my child. But the OP's situation seems different, where they have actual proof that there was drug use already and the DS seems to truly want to have it done. I hope it all works out for you. What a tough situation.
post #56 of 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by

Lizafava
"Also, it doesn't take a wiz kid to pass a drug test. The internet is full of helpful information for people who need to pass drug tests. Plenty of chronic pot smokers pass piss tests simply by drinking lots of water." A kid might fool a parent by diluting urine tested with a local drug store kit. But, the chance of getting away with it using a professional kit is long passed. Even a cheap pro kit checks for proper pH (so much for drink vinegar or add tap water to the sample), temperature (so much for bringing along someone else's urine - unless you've stuffed it up an orafice to maintain temperature) and concentration (so much for drinking lots liquids beforehand). Likewise, the presence of additives is cheaply checked. An adulteration test strip to check for additives costs, on average, an extra $1.00 (retail, a strip is about $1.75 - here's one example http://www.meditests.com/drugadtes.html). Cost is hardly a deterrent to additive checking. Those concoctions available over the internet to "cleanse" before a test? Save your money. They're detectable too. It's not a perfect system, but urine testing has come a very long way in a few short years.

Blood tests are even better and some parents opt for this route because a physician is often involved in helping them deal with a child's drug use. (Few employers do blood testing because its more expensive and, physically, more invasive.)


To readers, I apologize for the following if your interest is limited to the original confines of the topic (testing children). But, the misinformation of drug testing in circumstances of employment stated in the various tangents begs for correction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by

karina5:

"

I could care less if my airline pilot smoked pot last week. Better than the airline pilot who was so hungover he could barely function ..." Most passengers would choose "c" - a pilot that is neither high nor impaired from alcohol while sitting in the cockpit. Either is a violation of a pilot's employment agreement and cause for dismissal - terms made clear from the onset.

Companies drug test applicants and employees because, on average, drug users cost companies more money. Concerns go beyond the liability of impaired employees operating potentially dangerous machinery (including airplanes). Abusers of presription drugs and users of illegal drugs are less productive, take more sick days, are more likely to go out on Worker's Compensation, use more health insurance benefits, damage more company equipment, are disproportionately responsible for theft of company property, and are more likely to hire other drug users. Shunning drug users in the workplace is not about morality, its about dollars. For similar reasons of cost, there are companies that refuse to higher tobacco smokers and auto insurance companies that charge tobacco smokers higher premiums (smokers are more likely to take risks while driving and the distraction of smoking rituals has been found to result in more accidents.). Sure, there are drug users who never miss a day of work and smokers who live to be 95 and drive with an abundance of caution. But, companies are concerned about likelihood, not exceptions.

Now, you might find an employer who purchased junk test kits, or who tells employees a week ahead so they can run out and buy 10 detox kits in the hope the adulteration test doesn't take account of at least one of those concoctions, or who allows "donation" in privacy (so the employee can pull a clean urine sample keep hidden up their butt in case of such occassions). But, I wouldn't bet a penny, nevermind my job, on any of those possibilities.

Government and union employees often have more "rights" concerning testing for drugs. But, private employers are - for the most part - free to test and higher/firer for any positive or questionable result.

And, before another person steps on the soapbox about abuse of prescription drugs - it is common for employers to test for those too. Vicodin, Xanax and Valium are part of many employment panels today and people are denied employment and fired for their use too. But, because they can have legitimate uses, employees are usually given an opportunity beforehand to disclose and follow-up may be done to determine whether usage is problematic or within therapeutic bounds. More to the point, it defies logic to imply employers should accept the financial risks and burdens of hiring and retaining employees who use illegal drugs just because there are employees who abuse presecription drugs too.
post #57 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naturalyst View Post


Originally Posted by

karina5:

"

I could care less if my airline pilot smoked pot last week. Better than the airline pilot who was so hungover he could barely function ..." Most passengers would choose "c" - a pilot that is neither high nor impaired from alcohol while sitting in the cockpit. Either is a violation of a pilot's employment agreement and cause for dismissal - terms made clear from the onset.

.


Well of course. The point I was trying to make is that someone that smoked pot last week won't be high on pot today, yet they would fail a drug test.

I don't think that's right.
post #58 of 63
not to mention the fact that a poppy seed muffin can fail you, but prescription tranquilizers won't. I've worked with people who were so zoned out on tranqs that it was ridiculous.
post #59 of 63
WRT workplace drug testing - it's the people who use occasionally who tend to get caught. The person who took one hit of the bong at a party and then gets a random drug test a couple weeks later is more likely to fail than someone who habitually uses illegal drugs. Someone who habitually uses illegal drugs and works at a job where he/she knows there will be random drug tests is generally prepared for the possibility of being tested whereas someone who is clean most of the time generally hasn't prepared for the possibility of being tested while not clean.

I would not drug test a child of mine or an employee of mine. I believe that it undermines relationships. Employees should be judged based on performance and not what they may or may not do on the weekends My children will know what constitutes responsible drug use (I'm including caffeine and alcohol in this statement since they're drugs as well). Considering that I have an extensive drug library and know a great deal about this topic, I trust that they will feel comfortable asking me questions and if not, they are welcome to read the numerous books on drugs and what drugs do to people (both physiologically and psychologically) that are on our bookshelves.

Although if my child *wanted* to be tested then by all means I would do so.

love and peace.
post #60 of 63
I haven't read all the posts so this is just in response to the OP. I did have my 16yo ds tested once. We have very open communication and he has told me that he smoked pot a few times when he was around 14 but doesn't do it anymore. We sort of have a running joke about him being on drugs whenever he acts silly the way teenagers do sometimes. He teases me often about using drugs with his friends. I'm not so naive that I think he never does now and never will again use any drugs. I just hope he doesn't because I think they are dangerous. My friends and I used enough of them in my teen years to know first hand. So, when it came time for him to start driving I had him tested for safety reasons. I got an order from my doctor to have his blood drawn rather than using one of those drugstore urine tests. He came back negative on everything. That being said, I don't know every single drug that it tested for and I don't know if the new designer drugs would even show up on those tests. I have no idea how long something like ecstasy is in the system. I have had other parents suggest I get some drugstore tests like they do but I haven't had any reason to test him again. We talk openly about drugs so I don't know what good it would do to test him. What would I do with the info? If he had a problem with drugs, I think I'd know without testing and that I would try to do something about.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Preteens and Teens
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Childhood and Beyond › Preteens and Teens › Anyone randomly drug test your teen?