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UPSET re: new info on my delivery  

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 
my birth story is posted in the birth stories section. but basically, i ended up with a necessary c/s after a 12-hour natural labor (at home) plus 3+ hours of drug-free pushing in the hospital in all kinds of positions. i had had a previous abdominal surgery (bladder augmentation), which meant that the c/s i ended up with was very very complicated (due to all the scar tissue and adhesions), took over an hour, resulted in a 10-inch long vertical incision (which took me 8 weeks to feel mostly recovered from), and DD had meconium aspiration and could not room-in with me. i didn't even see her until 4 hours after the birth. luckily our BF relationship worked out fine despite the very much less-than-ideal conditions.

i asked my OB why DD would not come out, and he gave me the "small pelvis" reason and, when i asked whether it could have anything to do with my previous surgery, said a firm no. i believed him at first, even though my gut told me otherwise. since then, though, i have talked with a midwife (in practice with my OB, ironically enough) who said that yes, the abdominal surgery almost certainly influenced the outcome. still, i wasn't too upset until--

yesterday i saw a urologist about something unrelated. the topic of the birth came up and i explained what happened. he was completely unsurprised. he's familiar with my surgery and said there's a big debate in urology right now about whether women with my surgery can deliver vaginally or not, and if they should even try. apparently, often it is too risky/complicated, or just doesn't work. so many are recommending c/s to be standard for these women.

i guess what i'm upset about is that no one told me this. i spoke with my OB repeatedly about my condition and the operation, ordered the post-op report for him to read and put in my file, and he never indicated that any of it was worrisome. the urologist yesterday told me that the OB really should have known that if he had to do a c/s, it would be complicated and he'd need to go in up high (OB had to cut my uterus open at the top, but kept trying to get in lower--hence the very long incision).

so i feel like i am being told that i could've ended up with a much less traumatic birth experience and much less horrendous c/s had my OB simply done his homework. when i was still lying on the table at one point, he did say, "i really should have--" but then stopped himself. i've often wondered what he was about to say. i feel like he knows that he screwed up but has been very careful not to admit it to me for CYA reasons. now i even question if he has since realized i was not EVER going to be able to deliver vaginally no matter what, probably should have had a scheduled c/s, and is trying to cover up that mistake as well.

it wouldn't bother me so much, except that i feel like they barely got DD out in time. there was already meconium and distress before they even prepped me for surgery, and then the surgery took over an hour. DH asked DD's doctor later, "how serious was that? it looked really serious," and the doc said, "we were dealing with very limited time."

i could be overreacting; i don't know. but i feel like my OB screwed up due to laziness and failure to research my situation, and it almost injured or killed my daughter. and now he KNOWS he screwed up and is doing everything he can to divert my attention from the real problem by telling me i have a small pelvis, and my surgery had nothing to do with what happened on DD's birthday.

i plan to ask my DD's doc to process/narrate what happened from his perspective to see how in danger she really was during that, since i don't actually know. but aside from doing that, where do i go from here? i was just getting over this horrible experience, and now i feel like i've been punched in the gut. what the hell is wrong with these doctors? why did no one take care of me? why was it apparently up to ME, a layperson, to research the medical risks? can i ever trust them again? when they say the next birth, if there is one, will be better, more controlled (which my OB has said, even though when i was on the table he indicated maybe i shouldn't have more kids : )--can i believe that they actually will do their homework next time? find out what they need to know? what if they're ignorant about that, too?

i am so fuming mad about this and so hurt. i feel so betrayed.
post #2 of 7
MAS(meconium aspiration) happens long before birth not during birth- so that part of the trouble would not have been avoided-- that you labored and got to complete is also not a bad thing your baby got many of the things that help prepare a baby to be born -- I am not sure that your urologist was or is right-- I would think that the place that there would be a hang up would be in dilation - that you got to complete and 12 hrs of labor is an average length of labor so nothing there to indicate that you were going to have a problem-- the story of women pushing with out enough progress is common enough without the other componets- was your baby OP, occiput posterior? this would cause many babies to not decend-- or it could be that they had you push too soon- complete does not mean time to push it means now what is left is the baby needs to find it's way through the pelvis, her head needed to mold and grooves carved in your pelvic bones- this all takes time-- normally we don't have a woman push until she feels it -- I actually really like your ob doc it sounds like he did not expect you to just have a problem and do an automatic section --also where the un-knowledgable urologist suggest an OB put an incision is associated with a far greater risk of uterine rupture- and at the pushing point in your labor there is a large pumped up mass of muscle at the top of your uterus so even a more complicated surgery and very hard to pull a baby out of if it has been making it's way through the pelvis- think hard breech extraction- any how a fundal or near fundal incision not only carries a risk of uterine rupture during labor but also in pregnancy-- so not a wise thing to just do automatically-- your OB was trying to be conservative and protect you-- I see no betrayal in their actions that you had an unexpected outcome- is upsetting that your baby was sick also hard- but no way to prevent or predict that at this time-

I looked at the studies on bladder augmentation

here is a conclusion from one of the studies---I want you to note that it did not say 100% c-section rate it said increased need--

Pregnancy has no long-term effect on renal function and does not compromise reconstruction. Although there is a substantial complication rate and an increased need for Caesarean section, pregnancy in women with lower urinary tract reconstruction for congenital urological abnormalities is ultimately safe for both mother and baby.

---------------
and another quote about why a urologist is going to recommend c-section over vaginal birth- mostly having to do with maternal status after the birth and damage that could occur in certain types of repair/reconstruction

"As a consequence of this study, we recommend that patients who have had an enterocystoplasty alone should not be at an increased risk for incontinence from a vaginal delivery. Conversely, patients who have undergone augmentation cystoplasty and either vesical neck reconstruction or placement of an artificial genitourinary sphincter to attain continence should undergo cesarean section delivery to avoid the potential for disruption of the continence mechanism."
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and here is a link to an abstract you might want to read-

http://www.springerlink.com/content/j7lppv213301w063/

I am sorry that you had a rough postpartum and disturbing things around the birth but- I am not finding fault in the behavior of your OB as far as waiting for you to have the baby vaginally--
post #3 of 7
Thread Starter 
[QUOTE=mwherbs;8879084]MAS(meconium aspiration) happens long before birth not during birth

-->when does it happen? in labor? at what point? he broke my water after he checked me and told me i was complete. at that point, there was no meconium visible in the water at all. does that relate at all?

I would think that the place that there would be a hang up would be in dilation - that you got to complete and 12 hrs of labor is an average length of labor so nothing there to indicate that you were going to have a problem--

-->why would the problem happen in dilation? just curious your reasoning here. i think the idea i'm being told is that abdominal scar tissue can disrupt descent and cause the baby to get hung up up high (she never moved past 0 station). is this not true?

was your baby OP, occiput posterior? this would cause many babies to not decend-- or it could be that they had you push too soon- complete does not mean time to push it means now what is left is the baby needs to find it's way through the pelvis, her head needed to mold and grooves carved in your pelvic bones- this all takes time-- normally we don't have a woman push until she feels it --

-->i don't know her position. i asked after the fact, and the doctor didn't know. because of how he pulled her out, i guess he didn't get to really see how her head was wedged into the pelvis? he did do a cervical check and felt the head, though, so i don't know why he has no idea.

any how a fundal or near fundal incision not only carries a risk of uterine rupture during labor but also in pregnancy-- so not a wise thing to just do automatically

-->okay, so why has no one told me this either? i guess what i would've wanted is the basic information about possible complications. i looked up studies, was able to find 2, but neither of them focused on my particular surgery (my exact type of bladder augmentation). these surgeries are not super common and have not been around a really long time. many of the girls who had them are just starting to have babies now.

i appreciate your perspective. it is helpful to hear. i just feel like no one warned me about ANY of this. it's all out of left field. had i been adequately informed, i might have made different decisions. maybe not, but even if i had done everything the same, i would have known what i was getting into. there is no reason that i had to know so little about this--except that i don't think my OB knew, because he didn't bother to find out. granted, he handled the situation well when it arose, but i don't see why he couldn't have better prepared in advance, in case this happened.

and there's no good reason that no one has mentioned to me this rupture risk. i've asked my OB repeatedly about future pregnancies and he's never mentioned this. i mean, should i just rule out future pregnancies? this is important to know. my husband and i need to move on with our lives.
post #4 of 7
I could not say at what point your baby had MAS- the newer studies say that suctioning a baby that will breathe will not change outcome MAS has already occured- what suctioning a non-breathing baby will do is prevent meconium from being pushed in that may not have been there before-- the numbers on babies born with mec is between 5-20% and 10% of those babies will have MAS-- so the numbers would be out of 100 births between 5 and 20 will be born with meconium present and of that between 1/2 a baby to 2 babies will have MAS. babies start early breathing movements in pregnancy and then stop before labor- the guesses are that either MAS occurs while the breathing movements were still going on before labor- or that some sort of distressing even occurs and the baby poops and gasps it in-- that the fore waters were clear- say that when the head enguaged that water was trapped and was clear- but I still don't know at what point your baby was exposed to mec in the lungs-- most likely after 34 weeks but no promises on that--
yes the scar tissue could have prevented decent- but the bladder and the uterus are attached and if the scar tissue were to be that much of a problem then I would be thinking it would prevent the cervix from opening fully-just from not even allowing the muscles to contract properly -- once you are complete then the soft tissues have moved out of the way and the baby navigates the bony pelvis- 0 station is even with the ischial spines where the bones of your bottom poke out-- so if a baby has gotten to that point of decent I am having trouble seeing how the bladder surgery held things up-
so in reading over your birth story you were complete maybe 5 hrs? I would have to had to have been there to have a feel for what you had going on-- was your baby's head molded? and it sounds like from the story that the baby was given antibiotics- was your baby intubated or other things? or exposure to meconium and resuscitation needed at birth- true MAS was diagnosed what do your baby's records say?
post #5 of 7
Thread Starter 
hmmm...i had no idea that was how MAS worked. very informative to know. i haven't checked her records to see what she was diagnosed with. i was so out of it after the birth, i could barely keep up with what they were doing with her. i was on a morphine pump for the first 48 hours.

yeah, i was complete at about 7:30 am, started pushing maybe 45 min-an hour later. i DID feel the urge to push by then. i guess it could've had nothing to do with the surgery why she wouldn't come out, but it was certainly strange in everyone's experience (my doula, the L&D nurse) how labor could go that well and then pushing go absolutely nowhere at all.

no, her head was not molded. it looked like a perfect "c/s head." the only clue i got about her positioning was one ear (left ear) was folded over after birth. all the pain when i was pushing was on the left side of my pelvis. that seemed to be where she was stuck. i did all kinds of OFP exercises, saw a chiro, etc. in the month leading up to the birth. so she could've been OP, but i always felt like she was not.

it's just weird to me that she never moved at all. she was at 0 in the week before i went into labor, and that's as far as she ever got. like she wasn't moving at all.

FWIW, i was a mec baby too. i had really bad MAS, but i was also low birthweight and had congenital problems (the bladder, among others). is it genetic?

i still think it's weird no one has mentioned the risk of rupture to me for future pregnancies. how high is the risk with a fundal/close to fundal incision? thanks for all your help.
post #6 of 7
I would just like to point out that when your urologist said there is a big debate, remember that means that there are people on both sides of the fence with research, personal experience, and studies to back them up. It could very well be that your OB casually consulted a urologist and/or did some personal research and came to the exact opposite conclusion as your urologist, with good studies, statistics, and resources to back up his conclusion.

I'm sorry things didn't go as you expected them. I hope you continue to heal.
post #7 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwherbs View Post
that you labored and got to complete is also not a bad thing your baby got many of the things that help prepare a baby to be born
: I can't comment on the more technical aspects of your post, but I can post in agreement that it was a very good thing that you got to labor prior to your c/s. You know that baby was ready to be born. The flip side of the coin could be that you scheduled your c/s and u/s dating was off so you could have been separated from your baby due to respitory distress. Scheduling the c/s would have been no guarantee that there would have been no complications.

I know there are some women who say that they were up and feeling like themselves post c/s in just a few days. I had a low transverse incision on my uterus and a vertical skin incision and it too took me at least 8 wks to feel mostly like myself. I would say that your healing expereience was very much "normal".

You should be very proud of yourself for being able to establish a breastfeeding relationship in light of everything you went through! I for one am very jealous b/c after my scheduled c/s and separation from my son for most of his first day of life after the surgery was not as lucky.

You are one very strong mama and I admire you for your tenacity in looking for the answers you feel you need. Keep up the search!
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