Pre-teens: Clothes, class, and college tracking

[Gendenwitha]

So my value system has always been one that eschews name-brands, popularity, going with the crowd, etc. I buy my clothes, and my kid's clothes at Value Village, maybe some new clothes at the local small-town store which has t-shirts with cute animals on them, and plain jeans in amongst fishing gear, plumbing tools and hunting knives.

Now, I'm reading this book that makes two interesting observations. One, that students social cliques are representations of class-structure, typically of their parents, but also of what class structure they are headed for. ie the reason the popular kids in their name-brand clothing are more accepted by the administration than the kids on the fringe in their rebel clothing or hair, is that (point two) these kids in the "right" clothes must be on their way to college and middle-class lifestyles (and are therefore placed in, or encouraged towards courses that fit accordingly).

Now I am suddenly looking at school clothes shopping in a new light... not as it has been a mix of what they like and how will my child be perceived by their peers but now I am looking at how they will be perceived by their teachers. I still don't want to raise children to follow the crowd, but I do want them to value a college education.

Have you ever considered this, and how would it affect the way you encourage or allow your child to dress?

[doctorjen]

This is something I have puzzled about quite a bit. I have a ds who will be 19 next week, and a 12 yr old dd - they are my only 2 for whom clothes and appearance have been an issue so far. In general, I'm quite fond of teenagers and interact with quite a few professionally. I was a "misfit" type of kid myself and never got into the cliques that existed in my day. I've always let my kids pretty much dress and cut their hair how they liked, and didn't think much of it. When my ds was in early high school he decided to grow his hair long, which I didn't think much about at all - it's his hair, after all. It was a big shock to me, then, to see the big difference in how he tended to be treated by other adults. One memorable occasion was when he was out on a long run during a cross country practice. He and the kid he was running with stopped for a drink of water at the outdoor drinking fountain at the local country club. The guy in the pro shop came running out and ordered my ds off the property! As near as we can tell, this was entirely due to his long haired appearance, as he was merely drinking water, and then they were going to take off running again, and he and the other kid were wearing obvious team gear, and the country club had always allowed kids to stop in for a drink. Teachers also seemed to automatically respond more negatively to him - and he'd always been a teachers' favorite kind of kid. He started noticing this himself, and made the decision to cut his hair on his own, and we talked about how sad it was that people judge based on appearances. It was a very odd realization to see that people couldn't see my kind, respectful, social kid past his hair! He's always been the type of kid adults like, and interacted very well with adults, and to suddenly have people assuming the worst of him was very disturbing.
My dd, at 12, tends to dress in dark colors, and hangs with kind of a misfit bunch. On the one hand, I'm starting to see that teachers make assumptions about her abilities and future prospects that just aren't accurate. On the other hand, I don't want to tell her what to wear - I want everybody else to stop judging her based on her clothes or her hair, or her eyeliner!
I haven't fully decided how to handle this situation and I'd love to hear what other people are doing.

[MillingNome]

Personally, I've always been kind of in awe of those rare teens that throw all caution to the wind and do pink hair, funky clothes and more holes that a strainer...

But alas, they do get judged by most other people very harshly. It is unfair but there is something very scary to some people about a person so willing to buck the system. I think some of the judgment is the person judging feels they "played by the rules" and this wild looking teen does not deserve to have so much fun and still get ahead, imo.

Another thing is people seem to usually like predictability. Most the time it seems to me, they like to fit what they see in a certain box so they feel they know something about that person's behavior and future actions. When something or someone doesn't fit into their "typical" boxes, it's like the footing is knocked out beneath them.

My dd goes to a school that has uniforms. It is very small. The expectation is that not only will all the kids graduate high school, but they will also go on to college or other post-secondary training. The clothes don't matter because they are all in uniforms. And since the school is so small (just 14 kids in her class), I think the teachers get a fairly good chance to get to know each kid...

It's so unfair that kids who look slightly different have so many judgments heaped unjustly on them

[UUMom]

I dunno, I am sure there is something to that. However, all the theater.musical.artistic kids I know are very creative in their personal styles and most go to college, or work at what they enjoy. I know plenty of pink and blue haired kids studying literature, music etc. We have a couple of funky friends with kids studying engineering, and law, and I've stopped counting their peircings. I think later, some people tone it down, or whatever. It's true you don't see all that many midwives or stockbrokers with tons of peircings for everyday, but is that a symptom of age or conformity, or a bit of both? Or do the piercings just go under the clothes? I know a couple of biologists with many tattos.

As for VV, which is Saver's in the US, that place is Abercrombie and Fitch etc central in my area. There's nothing you can't buy there. Ralph Lauren to Doc Marten. All the name brands, looking new, or all the funky retro stuff you can put together. The teens around here swarm Savers-- and they range from preppy to goth to whatever.

[maya44]

Originally Posted by UUMom

As for VV, which is Saver's in the US,

I don't believe it's "Savers" in Oregon or Washington. I think it is VV

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by maya44

I don't believe it's "Savers" in Oregon or Washington. I think it is VV

I think you're right. I know I've been VV in CN.

[Gendenwitha]

Originally Posted by doctorjen

When my ds was in early high school he decided to grow his hair long, which I didn't think much about at all - it's his hair, after all. It was a big shock to me, then, to see the big difference in how he tended to be treated by other adults.
... I want everybody else to stop judging dd based on her clothes or her hair, or her eyeliner!
I haven't fully decided how to handle this situation and I'd love to hear what other people are doing.

Re the hair: My long-haired dh still gets that. He's a network administrator for a large building and every time they get a new guy at the security desk he goes through more hassle than other co-workers (of course he looks young too). The other day someone asked him where the loading dock was because they assumed he worked in the warehouse. It's unfair, but I also recognize that it's part of white privilege that he has the option of not being treated this way by cutting his hair. I've heard similar stories from black friends who don't have that option.

As to what we're doing, my kids are younger, but ds in 2nd & 3rd grade was teased that 'he smelled' when he didn't. I thought of it as a random thing to pick on someone for, but now I'm thinking it may have been a childish way of saying "your clothes aren't new, you're poor". 4th grade at new school was better, but not great.

So this year, (since we have the money this year to even have this as an option) we're going to buy "school clothes" new. (which get changed out of before playing outside at home). Even the higher end of the socio-economic scale in this area tend to shop Walmart, so it's not a fortune on name-brand mall stuff, just Target instead of second-hand. My thinking is that if we do it subtly any difference (if any at all) he'll attribute to his bettering social skills. If we wait and there came a time that we did the same thing at his request, he would attribute any change to the clothes, which I think would really set us up for instilling wrong values...

..but I'm still unsure about this plan.

[Gendenwitha]

Originally Posted by UUMom

It's true you don't see all that many midwives or stockbrokers with tons of peircings for everyday, but is that a symptom of age or conformity, or a bit of both? Or do the piercings just go under the clothes? I know a couple of biologists with many tattos.

Personally I just got too busy to do wild hair and makeup. Plus I'm conscious of trying to "look young" or be seen as pathetic for trying to dress younger than I am, or than my body should be wearing for my current size.

[UUMom]

Long, bushy hair is in the height of fashion where we live. In fact, I noticed that all the college- age sailing instructors in town have incredibly long, wild hair (most attend college). (Maybe it's an athelete thing?) Both my boys have crazy hair. *Crazy*. (My oldest is starting college and has crazy hair a long time). Maybe it's a blue state thing not to care about hair.

Note to self: *Never* *ever* move.

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by Gendenwitha

Personally I just got too busy to do wild hair and makeup. Plus I'm conscious of trying to "look young" or be seen as pathetic for trying to dress younger than I am, or than my body should be wearing for my current size.

Practical works for me.

I am a very practical person. Say I was told that a bikini wax ('landing strip') was the coolest thing ever (and I know it is in places) and say I was told that having perfectly blond highlighted hair was the coolest thing (which it is in some places) or say I was told wearing a nose and tongue ring was the coolest thing ever (and I know it is in some places) , or that biying a 2K Marc Jacobs bag was the coolest thing ever (which ,wow, it is in some places) I would have to say, Huh? Whaaaaaaaat?

Waaaaaaaaay too $$, waaaaaaaaay too time consuming, and waaaaaaaaay impractical for my 'go with the flow' lifestyle.

So, yeah, whatever is easiest, lowest maintenence has my vote. And given my ds' wild hair, it's also cheap. No hair cuts is saving us money.

Not that I couldn't stumble onto the Dark Side and groove on good bags, good hair, good highlights and a nice bikini wax.

[ShaggyDaddy]

I just moved from TX to CA and I can tell you a shaggy daddy even in a ritzy plastic surgery area of CA has an easier time in CA for sure. Also our DS gets assumed a girl due to his long hair A LOT less here...

It is very strange going to stores and stuff and having employees approach you and try to help you instead of just ignoring or glaring. It's like I have short hair all over again, but I get to keep my long hair

[DiannaK]

Originally Posted by Gendenwitha

So my value system has always been one that eschews name-brands, popularity, going with the crowd, etc.

Now, I'm reading this book that makes two interesting observations. One, that students social cliques are representations of class-structure, typically of their parents, but also of what class structure they are headed for. ie the reason the popular kids in their name-brand clothing are more accepted by the administration than the kids on the fringe in their rebel clothing or hair, is that (point two) these kids in the "right" clothes must be on their way to college and middle-class lifestyles (and are therefore placed in, or encouraged towards courses that fit accordingly).

Now I am suddenly looking at school clothes shopping in a new light... not as it has been a mix of what they like and how will my child be perceived by their peers but now I am looking at how they will be perceived by their teachers. I still don't want to raise children to follow the crowd, but I do want them to value a college education.

Have you ever considered this, and how would it affect the way you encourage or allow your child to dress?

What book was this? My husband has a book called Class, which discusses social structure, and, in my experience, is dead on. It's also hysterically funny.

I have a 12 year old girl, and I never had to give any thought to brands of clothing until last year. She's even in a Catholic school -- with uniforms. Part of the reasons for uniforms is to take some of the pressure off to dress a certain way ... in Abby's school, purses/shoes are the big thing.

I don't know that I agree with the statement that kids who wear the "right" clothes were necessarily going on to college, etc. I knew girls in my high school that were dressed to the nines ... didn't necessarily mean that they had their head on straight. I was on the "fringe" of nice clothes, and I'm college educated, with a very successful career.


I try to downplay the whole class/brands things with my girls. Yes, the baby wears Gymboree ... but I get that at Target prices. Yes, DD#1 wears Abercrombie and Hollister, but we buy it at a consignment shop. No one knows the difference. I wear Ann Taylor .. bought on sale, consignment shop, or on Ebay, and it lasts me for years.

I try to stress to Abby that she's so much more than what she looks like on the outside ... having said that, I'm dreading these next few years.


Dianna

[Gendenwitha]

The book was called Women Without Class, but I believe she referenced another study when talking about the clothes/college thing, because it was mentioned as a given. She did her observing not long after I graduated, and I think maybe you're interpreting it as the expensive brand-names, as opposed to the style of those brands. Whereas she was more observing that the "rockers" and girls who dressed provocatively, were from working-class families who didn't have the "cultural capital" to pass on of how to prepare for college. This compounded with the idea that the guidance counselors assumed certain things about their sexual mores, and interest in school (vs. their interest in boys for example) and they get placed or encouraged towards vocational classes. Whereas the "preppy" kids (the ones who have a certain style, that usually accompanies a certain brand-name) usually come from middle-class homes who's parents had that knowledge to pass on about college, and were encouraged both at home and by administration to go into college prep courses.