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There is NOT one God - Page 3

post #41 of 77
I have to agree with the giggle...since I was just running with the metaphors already brought up. I did add the prism to the mix. I'm pagan btw.

The definitions of religion and spiritual came straight out of the dictionary so bunk or not they're the word on the street so to speak. And I have to agree with the dictionary here... religion is an institution or structure based on spiritual beliefs. And any institution/organization/code created by people will interpret that spirit as best it can. But the prism does affect the way the light is seen...

Ooops, toddler calls...more later!
post #42 of 77
But... no... Wombat, you MUST be a Christian!

Personally I like your prism metaphor!
post #43 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshollyk View Post
this is going to sound totally crazy, but whatever, i'm not alone in this i think of g-d as being like a discoball. there are many, many facets that make up the whole, but it is ONE, throwing light all over the place it goes A LOT deeper than that, but that's the gist anyway.
This is essentially similar to my view.
post #44 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by wombatclay View Post
And I have to agree with the dictionary here... religion is an institution or structure based on spiritual beliefs. And any institution/organization/code created by people will interpret that spirit as best it can. But the prism does affect the way the light is seen...

Ooops, toddler calls...more later!

Too TRUE!!!!!
post #45 of 77

even the bible suports multiple gods

Let US create man in OUR immage.

Thy shalt not worship false Gods. says nothing about true Gods.

Thy shalt not worship any Gods before me . that says nothing about under or beside. There could be one suppreme God like the owner of the univers and then there could be manager gods and supervisor gods that take care of things the owner god dosnt want to do
post #46 of 77
The bible doesn't say there are many Gods.

"But you shall destory their altars, break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images (for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God)..." (Exodus 34:13-14).

“And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, 'See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.'” (Revelation 19:10).

"To you it was shown, that you might know that the LORD Himself is God; there is none other besides Him....Therefore know this day, and consider it in your heart, that the LORD Himself is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other." (Deuteronomy 4:35-39).

"'Now see that I, even I, am He, and there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; nor is there any who can deliver from My hand." (Deuteronomy 32:39).

"No one is holy like the LORD, for there is none besides You, nor is there any rock like our God." (1 Samuel 2:2).

"Therefore You are great, O Lord GOD. For there is none like You, nor is there any God besides You, according to all that we have heard with our ears." (2 Samuel 7:22).

"And may these words of mine, with which I have made supplication before the LORD, be near the LORD our God day and night, that He may maintain the cause of His servant and the cause of His people Israel, as each day may require, that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God; there is no other." (1 Kings 8:59-60).

"Then Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said: 'O LORD God of Israel, the One who dwells between the cherubim, You are God, You alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made heaven and earth. Incline Your ear, O LORD, and hear; open Your eyes, O LORD, and see; and hear the words of Sennacherib, which he has sent to reproach the living God. Truly, LORD, the kings of Assyria have laid waste the nations and their lands, and have cast their gods into the fire; for they were not gods, but the work of men’s hands - wood and stone. Therefore they destroyed them. Now therefore, O LORD our God, I pray, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that You are the LORD God, You alone.'" (2 Kings 19:15-19).

"Yet I am the LORD your God ever since the land of Egypt, and you shall know no God but Me; for there is no savior besides Me." (Hosea 13:4).

"Inasmuch as there is none like You, O LORD (You are great, and Your name is great in might), who would not fear You, O King of the nations?...But the LORD is the true God; He is the living God and the everlasting King. At His wrath the earth will tremble, and the nations will not be able to endure His indignation. Thus you shall say to them: 'The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under these heavens.'...Every metalsmith is put to shame by an image; for his molded image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them. They are futile, a work of errors; in the time of their punishment they shall perish. The Portion of Jacob is not like them, for He is the Maker of all things, and Israel is the tribe of His inheritance; the LORD of hosts is His name." (Jeremiah 10:6-16).

Need I say more???
post #47 of 77
I think the thing with the bible is...well...if you look at those quotes what they seem to say is that there ARE other gods. But that they are not REAL gods and so not worthy of worship. Which gets back to that pesky (christian? ) elephant metaphor and the idea that a person feeling the trunk may think the person feeling the ear isn't interpreting the elephant correctly or that they have misunderstood what constitutes the "real" elephant. The bible presents one interpretation of the divine, but it's not necessarily the only interpretation of that divine, and it seems that even within groups built upon the bible there are different interpretations.

As a pagan I don't see the bible as the literal word of a supreme being, so that colors my own interpretation of course...

And I think mike was maybe talking about the interesting plurality used in one portion of the biblical creation story...there are two versions in the same story, each with slightly different terms/emphasis. Some people feel the plural endings refer to the "three in one" mystery of christianity, others suggest a plural diety or more than one divine agent.
post #48 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike View Post

Let US create man in OUR immage.
Well I believe in the trinity so that's not a problem, but maybe God just uses the "royal we" like the queen of england? either way it's still just one God.

Quote:
Thy shalt not worship false Gods. says nothing about true Gods.


Thy shalt not worship any Gods before me . that says nothing about under or beside. There could be one suppreme God like the owner of the univers and then there could be manager gods and supervisor gods that take care of things the owner god dosnt want to do

My Bible does say "besides me," it just means "other than me." Like if I said "do you read anything besides the bible?" That doesn't mean "on the side of the bible," it means "other than the bible." And other "gods" are just man-made gods, it doesn't say there are other actual divine beings:

"You shall not have other gods besides me. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them."
post #49 of 77
This discussion on biblical justification or support for god vs gods is really sort of interesting considering the OP's original post/comment.
post #50 of 77
Quote:
religion is an institution or structure based on spiritual beliefs. And any institution/organization/code created by people will interpret that spirit as best it can.
Makes sense to me too.

And yeah, using the bible to prove Christianity to people that don't take the Bible as fact/literal or "the word of God" or to prove that other religions or Gods are false isn't really all that helpful IME.
post #51 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benji'sMom View Post
Well I believe in the trinity so that's not a problem, but maybe God just uses the "royal we" like the queen of england? either way it's still just one God.




My Bible does say "besides me," it just means "other than me." Like if I said "do you read anything besides the bible?" That doesn't mean "on the side of the bible," it means "other than the bible." And other "gods" are just man-made gods, it doesn't say there are other actual divine beings:

"You shall not have other gods besides me. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them."
I was trying to remember that verse, but couldn't, must be momma brain, lol!
post #52 of 77
[QUOTE]
And yeah, using the bible to prove Christianity to people that don't take the Bible as fact/literal or "the word of God" or to prove that other religions or Gods are false isn't really all that helpful IME. [QUOTE]

ditto.
post #53 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommato5 View Post

"But you shall destory their altars, break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images (for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God)..." (Exodus 34:13-14).
The thing that gets me about that part is that even if God of the Torah is a jealous God ( and I don't it doubt he is given his actions and words), if he is almighty why be jealous of false Gods?
post #54 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by rootzdawta View Post
And this struck me so forcefully the other day. I guess for the longest time I had the idea that there was one God/creator/universe (if one believes) and different interpretations of that God/creator/universe. But an experience I had a few weeks ago with a Christian made me realize that it simply can't be. Your interpretation or idea of what God is is actually what God really is. Does that make sense? In other words, God is so individual to each person (and sometimes to a group of people in the case of organized religion) that in actuality, the God a Christian serves is in no way related to the God I serve. How did my experience with a Christian let me know this? I, working under the idea of "one God/different interpretations" never have had issues praying with a Christian and someone of another faith. But the reverse is not true and the disdain/disrespect they had for my prayer was just overwhelming. Then, while listening to some evangelism in the park the other day, I repeatedly heard the minister talking about "our God" and "their God" and it just completely blew me away for some reason. I finally realize that I can't expect that a person whose God is different than mine and who they ultimately believe is THE ONE AND ONLY God to respect my vision of God. I guess the bigger problem is that all of my family (mother, father, etc.) is Christian and I am the only one who is not. That is a huge wedge between us and so this realization really made me feel that wedge as insurmountable. Anyway, any opinions?
I have come to conclude and believe deeply in one God. But its not a 'my God vs. their God' crap. I try to stay far away from that sort of thing.
post #55 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotmamacita View Post
I have come to conclude and believe deeply in one God. But its not a 'my God vs. their God' crap. I try to stay far away from that sort of thing.
Yep. I am monotheistic (and a whole host of other things...) at the heart of it, but I don't much care if my neighbor is. I still think her God is right for her however she knows God to be.
post #56 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna View Post
The thing that gets me about that part is that even if God of the Torah is a jealous God ( and I don't it doubt he is given his actions and words), if he is almighty why be jealous of false Gods?
The word in the Hebrew could also be read as "zealous" or "ardent." The root is thought to have been originally connected to intense colors; you can imagine a person whose face darkens or reddens with emotion. I think of these phrases as describing God as an ardent lover who wants our undivided attention.
post #57 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamagotchi View Post
The word in the Hebrew could also be read as "zealous" or "ardent." The root is thought to have been originally connected to intense colors; you can imagine a person whose face darkens or reddens with emotion. I think of these phrases as describing God as an ardent lover who wants our undivided attention.
I agree. There are several scriptural passages which (depending on interpretation) use the metaphor of a spouse or lover to describe the relationship between God and His people, and the worship of false gods as a kind of adultery. The Song of Solomon is maybe the best known.
post #58 of 77
Fascinating thread.

I tend to agree with the op, though I found myself nodding at many of the other posts. I love the Divine Disco Ball metaphor.

I see God as something within each person, rather than something outside of us. In my view, spiritual growth is about finding the divine within yourself. I'm not quite sure how organized religion fits into my concept of spirituality. I am finding that Christianity, the religion I grew up with, really doesn't speak to me anymore, though I have yet to do much exploration of other religions.
post #59 of 77
While a pagan myself, for those of the Christian persuasion, I would like to direct you to here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim

It talks about the etymology of a common word for God in the Old Testament. Here is the other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

In my eyes, the word elohim supports a polytheistic viewpoint of the early Israelites. Given their surrounding peoples, this hardly seems a stretch.

But I think if we're going to throw Bible verses around, particularly on the nature of God, we need to look at what was originally written, not translations thereof.
post #60 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verity View Post
I see God as something within each person, rather than something outside of us. In my view, spiritual growth is about finding the divine within yourself. I'm not quite sure how organized religion fits into my concept of spirituality. I am finding that Christianity, the religion I grew up with, really doesn't speak to me anymore, though I have yet to do much exploration of other religions.
ITA. Part of Jewish theology is that there's a spark of the Divine in each and every human being, and that makes each and every one of us connected to G-d Himself (/Herself/Itself) as well as to each other.

Does that make sense? It's not that the Divine Spark is a substitute for the big "one G-d of all Creation" but rather that both (G-d inside as well as G-d outside) exist simultaneously, because G-d is infinite and can be in all places (and times) at once.
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