Shaming Grandma *Update

[transformed]

*update-I tried to talkk to my mom abot the use of shaming in their home. She had no idea what I was talking about. When I told her that it wasnt ok with us for her to talk about a person in front of them like that, she laughed at me and said "I dont think I scarred him for life." I told her it always hurt my feelings when I was a child and she talked about how bad I was. She didnt care-she blew me off. :-(

She ended up hanging up on me after I told her that if we couldnt resolve this that their time together would be limited. She felt threatened and frankly, she was being threatened.

I wish I had a different mom. My mom wouldnt know what love was if it bit her in the ass. And I guess she is never going to "get it." :

I am having a huge dilema. My parents are crappy parents but I know they love my kids so much. I also use them for childcare often because the kids love them and they are in town...

My mom however, in particular, damaged me emotionally as a kid and I can never put my finger on exactly what she has done wrong but I am guessing its a series of events like the following:

Yesterday my 4 year old pooped while swiming in their pool. (I was not there) From the info I gather, my mom threw a fit and said some words like "This kid isnt swimming any more in my pool unless he learns to shit in the toilet!" Sounds just like mom. It angers me that my son is now upset about it and I dont know what to do!!! He is not toilet trained and my mom thinks I am a bad mother for letting him go so long, and I think she yelled at HIM! (Or probably yelled at my dad in front of him. I heard alot of her saying "What the He** is WRONG with my kids!" as a kid...)

My desire is to cut them off completley but honestly, I dont know how to do that. They always make me feel like I am so "extreme" in my tactics and honestly make me feel stupid.

They really suck at being my parents and they suck at dealing with children sometimes-but so do I sometimes!!! (They have gotten better but still are uneducated and no interest in being educated) They are completley not nurturing-my mom doesnt have a "loving" bone in her body. :-( But I think I wouldnt survive without the great help they have given me! And they are in love with their grandkids too. They seem to do ok with the littler ones...

Furthermore-how do you deal with strangers that use shaming on your kids? or friends? People just talk in a language that isnt appropriate for kids, IMO and I dont always have a good response for them.

I am so mad.

[StephandOwen]

If that were me I would not remove Grandma from your dc's life completely. I would, however, really limit to the time they spend together so that I supervised it all. Remember how you felt as a child hearing your mom yelling like that? You ds probably felt that same way yesterday. It's your responsibility to protect him from that, even if it's hard for you.

[transformed]

Originally Posted by StephandOwen

If that were me I would not remove Grandma from your dc's life completely. I would, however, really limit to the time they spend together so that I supervised it all. Remember how you felt as a child hearing your mom yelling like that? You ds probably felt that same way yesterday. It's your responsibility to protect him from that, even if it's hard for you.

I completley agree-thank you for your advice.

A follow up, if I may-

Would you address the situation with mom? Would you state that the time is going to be supervised? Or just let it "end up" there?

[mamazee]

My mom is big on shaming and was when I was a kid too - that was her primary mode of discipline.

I just quietly am there when my daughter is there and don't leave her alone there. There are other issues in my family that make me uncomfortable leaving my daughter alone there too, but I don't bring it up.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by transformed

I completley agree-thank you for your advice.

A follow up, if I may-

Would you address the situation with mom? Would you state that the time is going to be supervised? Or just let it "end up" there?

How do you think your mom would react if you sat down and had a conversation explaining why your dc will not be there unsupervised? Will she flip out and it'll cause a huge family *thing*? Or will she be willing to actually talk about it? If she'll talk about it then I'd go that route. If she'll just get all defensive and isn't going to be willing to change her behavior I'd just start being there all the time the kids are, no explaination needed. If she asks then tell her truthfully.

[GranoLLLy-girl]

What your mom is doing to your son is really damaging. If you can afford another type of care situation, I'd do that and then make up an excuse--like dh suggested that you all do that, take the stress off of her, etc. Whatever you can. Things are not going to change so what's the use of being honest with her? What she is doing to your child isn't worth all the money in the world. I cannot imagine how that child must feel after being shamed for having an accident. I'd have a fit if my mother said that to my child.

[AngelBee]

It is hard when it is family.

[transformed]

Originally Posted by AngelBee

It is hard when it is family.

The situation with my mom is unfortunate and sad, and unacceptable. I think I will try to have them over to MY home more-but that will be hard cause they always want us to come over there.

Also, I will talk to dh about another care situation-I am thinking of a mothers helper anyways a few hours a week. (high school girl I know)

Do 4 year olds that are "potty trained" have accidents? Just wondering.

Thank you guys

Jenny

[pibblestiltskin@ma]

Gee, I could hear those words coming straight from my mom's mouth!

My $.02 are to see if you can eliminate the alone time with your mom and find another care giver. If she is as difficult as my mom she'll turn it around on you anyway if you try to explain that you want to limit unsupervised visits.

FWIW my 4.5 year old still has peeing accidents under certain circumstances, but not poop. He is very regular though, first thing in the AM - nothing like waking up to a kid yelling "Mommy I pooped and I need help!"

[mamazee]

Originally Posted by transformed

Do 4 year olds that are "potty trained" have accidents? Just wondering.

Yes. Absolutely.

[thebee321]

Originally Posted by transformed

Do 4 year olds that are "potty trained" have accidents? Just wondering.

Thank you guys

Jenny

My 4 year old is what I consider potty-trained, but he does have accidents. Usually at least once a week. Especially if he is really having fun and involved in something he doesn't want to stop.

[newmommy]

Originally Posted by transformed

My mom however, in particular, damaged me emotionally as a kid and I can never put my finger on exactly what she has done wrong but I am guessing its a series of events like the following:

my mom threw a fit and said "This kid isnt swimming any more in my pool unless he learns to shit in the toilet!"

her saying "What the He** is WRONG with my kids!" as a kid...)

*I* don't talk to my child this way. What your Mom said above is completely and utterly disrespectful...not only to you but to DS as well!

I don't care if she said it directly or indirectly.

Personally, I'd call my Mom (and this is the type of relationship we have) and tell her "we need to talk ASAP...woman to woman " and have a discussion about how she will be treating my child going forward "if you want to continue having a relationship with Me or him".

And then, Mom is going to apologize to DS in my presence. Actually, that's first on the agenda!

By the time I'm done with her...Mom will have clear expectations on how she treats DS. Because I'm going to teach Mom how I expect my family to be treated...and I have a ZERO policy for anything less.

Now, if she don't like it and feels she doesn't have to change...then so be it. I WILL cut off contact with my parents (oh yeah, Dad needs to be in on the conv as well).

What do you have to lose?? Especially if they have been emotionally damaging YOU all your life!!

Remember, you are your child's advocate.

[lilyka]

your mother obviously isn't comfortable with some of the choices you have made. to be completely honest I wouldn't be comfortable caring for a 4 year old who wasn't full potty trained, especially if they were still having poop accidents regularly. However I would not put that on the child. I would be honest with the parents and not be in a position where I had to deal with that. (I am not comfortable touching the private parts on older kids that aren't mine for any reason).

i would approach your mother this way "I can see you are not comfortable with this. I am sorry I put you in such an uncomfortable position by asking you to watch him. I will not be leaving him with you again until he is at a place where you are comfortable caring for him. From now on if you have a problem with the way I parent I would prefer that you came to me and just told me. it is never ok for you to treat the kids poorly because of my choices. " She knew he wasn't potty trained and still let him in the pool. This was bound to happen. she needs to make peace with her boundaries and expectations and own them. she didn't want to be the bad grandma so she let him swim but then freaks out when he pooped in the pool. well what did she expect to happen? If she wants to make a rule that you can't swim in the pool until you can be sure you aren't' going to poop in it that is her business. but to say you can swim in the pool when she doesn't really mean just because she doesn't want to be the bad guy is wrong.


I also think you bear some of the responsibility though.

Sounds just like mom.. . . ."What the He** is WRONG with my kids!". . . .They really suck at being my parents and they suck at dealing with children sometimes. . . .completely not nurturing-my mom doesn't have a "loving" bone in her body

you sent your kids into this environment what did you expect to happen? Hopefully you can talk to your mom about taking things up with you and not the kids but she doesn't really sounds like the kind of woman who thinks before she speaks so I don't know how much that will help. I don't mean to be harsh. I know about sucking up princials and ideals so i can get some help from my parents and in-laws. I also know I can't expect them to change and that "free" childcare, help, and sanity comes with a pretty high price sometimes and always with compromise.

[pranamama]

what do you tell your child, and does he "get it" .

I wouldn't leave my kids with someone that did that unless I thought the child was clear that the person shaming them was in the wrong for trying to hurt their feelings and that they were good kids.

any doubts, I would delay leaving my child there until they were able to understand that.

[transformed]

Originally Posted by lilyka

Hopefully you can talk to your mom about taking things up with you and not the kids but she doesn't really sounds like the kind of woman who thinks before she speaks so I don't know how much that will help. I don't mean to be harsh. I know about sucking up princials and ideals so i can get some help from my parents and in-laws. I also know I can't expect them to change and that "free" childcare, help, and sanity comes with a pretty high price sometimes and always with compromise.

Yeah, I can talk to her about it but she will feel attacked (And I probably WILL be attacking her because I think she is SO wrong)

Its just how my parent ARE....just last night my dad was over and was sweetly saying to my 19m old "Awwwww, dont you want to go with (4 yr old) he is soooooooooooo lonley." They parent by shaming. They dont know any better. My mom doesnt control her temper and seems to have no desire to do so.

[AngelBee]

Originally Posted by transformed

Do 4 year olds that are "potty trained" have accidents? Just wondering.

My 5yr daughter just had an accident in the morning less then a week ago. SHe could not make it to the bathroom in time when she woke up. Well.....she actually pretty much made it but could not get undressed fast enough So yes....it happens.

[AngelBee]

Originally Posted by transformed

Yeah, I can talk to her about it but she will feel attacked (And I probably WILL be attacking her because I think she is SO wrong)

Its just how my parent ARE....just last night my dad was over and was sweetly saying to my 19m old "Awwwww, dont you want to go with (4 yr old) he is soooooooooooo lonley." They parent by shaming. They dont know any better. My mom doesnt control her temper and seems to have no desire to do so.

I think you should talk to them though. It will at least put it in the back of their minds.

I will be :

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by transformed

Yeah, I can talk to her about it but she will feel attacked (And I probably WILL be attacking her because I think she is SO wrong)

Its just how my parent ARE....just last night my dad was over and was sweetly saying to my 19m old "Awwwww, don't you want to go with (4 yr old) he is soooooooooooo lonely." They parent by shaming. They don't know any better. My mom doesn't control her temper and seems to have no desire to do so.

If this is the case you really need to stop sending them over there. You know who they are and that they will do this. It is up to you to protect your kids.

[paquerette]

I think that it's important not to leave them alone with her anymore, and that if something like this happens in your presence in the future, you need to right then and there, tell your child that what his grandmother is doing is wrong and why, so that both of them can hear it. He needs to know that it's okay to learn to use the potty on his body's own schedule, that there's nothing wrong with him, and that it is not acceptable to speak to anyone the way that his grandmother is speaking to him. Use the sorts of words and phrases that a counsellor would use in a therapy setting. If your mother tries to engage you in an argument over what you're saying to your son, keep your cool and refuse to escalate things.

[angelpie545]

Your mother was way out of line with the way she handled it. I personally would not send my kid into a situation where he would be talked to like that, at all. I *do* understand your mother's frustration with a four year old who is not completely potty-trained, however. I know that accidents do happen, but I do think that at that age it's important to talk to the child after an accident-let them know while you aren't blaming them, it IS very important to let you know when they have to go potty. I've seen some older children who won't go potty simply because they know that their parents will just assume it's an "age" thing, or they tell their parents it's an "accident" when in fact it's not. NOT that it is happening with your son, I'm just saying I understand the frustration.

I would also have a talk with your mother, and establish clear cut boundaries with what she can and cannot say to your child, and what discipline methods are appropriate and inappropriate. If she cannot respect your wishes, then she should not have any unsupervised contact with your son.