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I need HELP!!!!

post #1 of 171
Thread Starter 
I have two sons that are circumcised and I just had a third son. My husband and I are in debate over the circumcision...and at this point he is so frustrated with me that he is "throwing his hands up". I have done ALL the research I can possibly do. The last day that my insurance will pay for the procedure is at the end of this week, so we have to make a decision. I wanted to ask you fellow mothers about the long term effects of NOT circing. I have been so distraught by this decision that I have been emotionally a mess and I can't even eat.

While I now know all of the effects of circing...I am concerned on the last leg about how my boy will grow up being the minority. Can you guys tell me how your boys were affected by being different? Did they want to be circed later? Please help me here....the clock is ticking.
post #2 of 171
Where do you live?

I live in the east coast, and I wasn't circumcised and I never had any problems. Medically or socially.

There are no "long-term" effects of not circing. That's the norm, the default. That's like asking what of the long-term effects of not removing your eyelids.
post #3 of 171
Quote:
I wanted to ask you fellow mothers about the long term effects of NOT circing.
Um, there are no negative ones. At all. Are you having negative affects because of your foreskin as an adult? No? It's pretty likely your son won't either.

Quote:
I am concerned on the last leg about how my boy will grow up being the minority. Can you guys tell me how your boys were affected by being different? Did they want to be circed later?
While most of us have boys too young to answer these, I can talk to you about a survey I read...I'm not positive where it was from and I want to say Men's Health but I can't for sure.

Of the respondants who were cut, about 20% were unhappy with it (extremely high for a cosmetic surgery). Of the guys who weren't cut, 3% were unhappy with it.

The difference between the two groups? The intact guys have the freedom to do something about it if they feel so inclined that doesn't involve years of wearing a device on their penis for a mere facsimile.

Answer me this: How does your son having a foreskin affect YOU. It doesn't. It affects HIM for his entire life.

Trust me, as someone who suffered for over 6 years because of my mother in law deciding to butt in her son's sex life, I can tell you this - stay out of your son and his future partner's bed.

ETA:

Answer me this too: Would you remove your daughters foreskin? Yep, girls have them too. And they have smegma and "higher HIV risks" just like a boys. And some think the vaginal area looks nicer without a foreskin. Does that make you want to run out and circumcise a female child? If not, then maybe you should question why you want to do the same thing to a male child.

Also with the circumcision rate (nationally) below 60% (below 30% on the west coast) your kid won't be alone. At all.

And there's plenty of threads on how to explain why brothers are different.
post #4 of 171
Depends where you are, but from what I hear, intact boys are NOT in the minority in many states now, rates are around 50% overall. So any child being spared circ these days will certainly not be alone.
I'm in the UK so it does not really apply to us, circ is virtually unheard of. But physically certainly my boys have no problems with being intact. Men over here aren't queuing up to get disease ridden foreskins cut off.

I would say that there are FAR more long term consequences of circing than not circing and they are far more important than the locker room. http://www.circumstitions.com/Complic.html
post #5 of 171
Since 80% of the worlds population is intact and almost 50% of those are in the USA (if you live here) your ds will not really be in the minority.

Please leave your little one intact he deserves the right to enjoy his whole body.

Like a pp said there are no down sides to being intact. It is how men were supposed to be made or they wouldnt be born with a foreskin.

Your dh will get over it and ask him if he ever set down and compaired genitals with his dad. I bet the answer will be no. And if it comes up with your other ds's then you explain to them that you thought you were doing what was right at the time but now you know it was wrong and appologize to them.

You said you have done all the research you can do. Have you watched the video linked to here what circ is like?
Have you learned that to preform the circ the dr actually stimulates a erection to do the cut? So the boys first sexual experiance is with this stranger?
Have you learned that the foreskin is fused to the head of the penis like the fingernail is to the nail bed and has to be ripped apart?
Have you learned that 10% of boys who are circed have complications that need surgery later?
Have you learned that no anesthesia is used?
Have you learned that it isnt your body to cut on?
It belongs to your son no one else has the right to do cosmetic surgery on him.


Your dh will get over it mine has and if he dosnt then he isnt the man you thought he was. I dont mean any of the above to be snarky they are facts and I want you to know them if you dont already. I have to assume you dont know them or you wouldnt still be considering doing this to your helpless newborn.

to you and I will pray you make the right decision.
post #6 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by TryingMyBest View Post
I am concerned on the last leg about how my boy will grow up being the minority. Can you guys tell me how your boys were affected by being different? Did they want to be circed later? Please help me here....the clock is ticking.
80% of the world's men are intact...circ'd is the minority!
My husband is circ'd, all of our boys are intact. They've never asked him about why he is "different" since little boy penises (intact or cut) don't look anything like adult penises. As for comparing with siblings, my boys do that even though they're all intact: the oldest has a very tight short foreskin, the middle is partly retractable with a long foreskin he likes to play with and stretch like taffy, and the baby actually looks quite long compared to his brothers and already retracts somewhat when he handles his own penis. At least you'll be able to give a concrete reason why they look different, I just have to pull the old "everybody's different" card.
No way should you circ him now that you are more educated about it!
post #7 of 171
Please read this thread....

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=728522


Alot of people share their stories on "minority" status here:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...light=matching

I applaude you for finding the courage to embrace the notion that your son will be born perfect. I will bet you that he will not only thank you for leaving his body alone, but he will be happy that you "gave him" the gift of genital integrity.
post #8 of 171
Thread Starter 

....response and still reading

I am still reading the answers..there are so many so fast! I really appreciate you guys getting back to me so quick. I didn't write very much about myself or my family in the original post but will after I am done reading. The only thing I want to beg of you when you reply is PLEASE PLEASE be sensitive to how I feel right now. I pulled my son off of the circumstraint in the hospital at the last minute strictly on maternal instinct and a strange gut wrenching desire to climb out of my skin and go to him....

I didn't know ANYTHING about circumsion other than that I had two circed boys before that. This is all BRAND NEW to me...and as you can imagine...it's odd to stomach all of it. I have literally tortured myself by listening to the their screams online..knowing how bad the guilt would riddle me but searching for the therapeutic push to make this decision. I want to have support with this last niggling concern. I am scared to death that my son will say...WOW Mom, thanks SO much for not circumcising me...dripping with sarcasm. I am afraid that he will just want to be like everyone else but be too old to want to do the surgery because it IS such an undertaking for an older person.

These are my fears. It has nothing to do with the locker room. It has to do with accountability for his future feelings. He might not like being intact...as he might not like being circed. I know that a boy can decide later to be circed..but the truth is most don't. That can either be by satisfaction (I HOPE!!!) or fear of the procedure.

Anyway, please just remember that I am here....and literally I have been torn up and crying for days...over this. I can't handle being chastised for coming for help, KWIM? Sent with love...thank you again!
post #9 of 171
mama if your son is raised knowing what the foreskin is and why he still has his I doubt very seriously he will ever be upset about being intact. I intend to tell both my ds and dd how lucky they are to be intact and let them both know the valuable function of the foreskin.

Education goes a very long way in how a person feels about themselves no matter what the issue is. Many mom's here have had to explain to a older son why their younger brother is different and had to appologize for having them cut.

Many mom's here have grown sons who were taught growing up about the foreskin and are very thankful that they still have theirs.

I would rather have my ds come to me and ask why he was still intact than have him come to me and ask why I cut part of his penis off and took away his right to choose.

If someone is so upset about being intact they will have it done but like I said before if they know growing up how valuable the foreskin is they will never choose to have a procedure that will forever deminish their sex lives. The main thing about having it done as a adult is they can have the right pain relief and they dont have to sit with a open wound in pee and poo. A baby goes thru just as much pain as a adult only they cant tell you about it. Some say well it dosnt matter because they cant remember but everything that ever happens to us stays in our brain somewere and even if it isnt a contious memory it affects our lives.

I am so sorry that you are having a hard time with this and I honestly didnt mean in my pp to imply you were bad in any way or to criticize you. I just want you to know that you will be doing the very best thing for your son by leaving him intact.

That took real courage to go with your gut instinct and save your ds at the hospital. What it all comes down to is your mama bear is telling you this is wrong and going with that. We were given these instincts for a reason. Rely on them and you can never go wrong.
post #10 of 171
Mama

I PM'd you some stuff
post #11 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by TryingMyBest View Post
I pulled my son off of the circumstraint in the hospital at the last minute strictly on maternal instinct and a strange gut wrenching desire to climb out of my skin and go to him....
Wow, good for you listening to your gut! It must have been hard being surrounded by people who wanted to cut your son.
I agree that if he really (I doubt) wants to be circ'd later in his adult life he can, and he can have proper pain relief. But restoring a removed foreskin is a very very long process, also uncomfortable, and still doesn't equal the real thing. You are most definitely doing the right thing by leaving the choice up to him someday when he is a consenting adult. Right now the surgery would be painful cosmetic surgery on an unconsenting minor; later as an adult I'm sure he will understand the difference and why you made the choice you did for him.
post #12 of 171
Just three words: DON'T DO IT.

You know the consequence and pain of having it done. Trust your initial instinct!!!!

I wish I had listened to my gut when my (now 4 year old) son was born!! I came here to post a question because he's complaining that his penis hurts, and I saw your post and had to respond!!! I pray my son's circumcision doesn't have complications!! You, on the other hand, don't have to worry that your son will have painful erections or worse. Babies can die on the circ table too, as I'm sure you're incredibly aware. Why in blazes would you risk it? For social standing???? Teach him to strongly shun social trend because they're often dangerous.

If anything, you'll be explaining to your circ'd boys why you made the mistake of having them cut!! You can't take back a circumcision; but he can always have it done in the future if he really wants to. Leave it be, and let him make the choice later in life....PLEASE.

(I know you won't do it. PM me if you need to.)
post #13 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by TryingMyBest View Post
The only thing I want to beg of you when you reply is PLEASE PLEASE be sensitive to how I feel right now. I pulled my son off of the circumstraint in the hospital at the last minute strictly on maternal instinct and a strange gut wrenching desire to climb out of my skin and go to him....
How scary that all must've been for both of you! But I think you had that feeling for a reason, mama.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TryingMyBest View Post
I am afraid that he will just want to be like everyone else but be too old to want to do the surgery because it IS such an undertaking for an older person.
This is a common fallacy. It is actually MUCH less of an undertaking for an older person. If a man past puberty decides to be circumcised, he gets anaesthetic and afterwards strong painkillers. He gets to make a decision about how much to have removed. The surgeon has the benefit of knowing exactly how much penis there is to work with, so there is no "surprise, we cut you as a newborn for a 6" penis and you grew up to have an 8" one, only there's not enough skin to go around so erections and intercourse will be painful". And most importantly, he knows exactly what's happening to him. He doesn't have to deal with the terror that a newborn does, thinking that he's going to die and never see his mother again.
post #14 of 171
I am so touched that you stood up to everyone and pulled him back to you. Bravo! : Thank you for posting and doing whatever it takes to protect your children.
post #15 of 171
I'm posting again because I read the other members posts above, and
4 years ago yesterday marks the 4th anniversary of the date that I subjected my own son to this.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X View Post
...the foreskin is fused to the head of the penis like the fingernail is to the nail bed and has to be ripped apart....
I wish someone had told me exactly this back then!!
I can't take back my mistakes, but...

YOU KNOW BETTER LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!
post #16 of 171
My bet is that intact men don't circ themselves as adults because they are quite happy having a fully functional penis with full sensitivity. You have to remember the circ'd penis does NOT function the way a normal penis does. It has been permanently denuded and desensitized.

An important part of this whole process (educating your son) will go a very long way to helping him understand why he was left intact. It is your responsibility to teach him about all the benefits of being intact and also to remind him that circumcised boys are somewhat less fortunate than he is. This info. will help him appreciate his status!

You CAN NOT undue a circ. Let your son make this decision for himself. IT is HIS penis. HE is the only one who should decide if he wants it modified permanently.
post #17 of 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by TryingMyBest View Post
I am scared to death that my son will say...WOW Mom, thanks SO much for not circumcising me...dripping with sarcasm. I am afraid that he will just want to be like everyone else but be too old to want to do the surgery because it IS such an undertaking for an older person.

I know that a boy can decide later to be circed..but the truth is most don't. That can either be by satisfaction (I HOPE!!!) or fear of the procedure.
These aren't things to worry about. As you said, most intact males DON'T do it later because most of them wouldn't dream of it. For the ones that toy with the idea, I suspect most of them don't because they KNOW there will trade-offs for whatever positive they may perceive...and it has very little to do with fear of the actual surgery itself. I have read accounts of a FEW teens and adult men who do get it done, usually for psychological/social conformity reasons. Those that do make the choice for THEMSELVES are usually pleased with it and don't describe it as the horrendous experience that all the folklore would have you believe. Personally, I survived a re-circ at the age of six. I have very little recall of the "pain", though I know it wasn't exactly a fun thing, and the only life-long scarring I received was physical, not mental.

And the other thing to consider is that this generation is incredibly computer/internet savvy and much more informed on this issue than the last couple of generations of cut men. Even among teens now I've come across discussion of this issue and some are even restoring at that young age. The awareness is incredible and will surely keep growing. Even among the few that have chosen to get circ'd later, many will still express gratitude that their parents left the choice to them.
post #18 of 171
Just reading yours now; and.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by TryingMyBest View Post
....I know that a boy can decide later to be circed..but the truth is most don't. That can either be by satisfaction...or fear of the procedure....
Ummm...out of curiosity... what makes you think that if an infant boy had the capacity to understand the procedure that he wouldn't fear it as well?!!?!?!?!?!?!

I know you asked for sensitivity; but I really don't think this is logical. If you've done your research, there shouldn't even be a shred of doubt; because you could teach your son what you know about the evils of circ when the situation arises.
post #19 of 171
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papai View Post
Where do you live?

I live in the east coast, and I wasn't circumcised and I never had any problems. Medically or socially.

There are no "long-term" effects of not circing. That's the norm, the default. That's like asking what of the long-term effects of not removing your eyelids.
We are in Georgia. Apparently the caucasian circ rate here is pretty high. CDC said like 84% at one point. Anyone have any better data than that?
post #20 of 171
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fi. View Post
Um, there are no negative ones. At all. Are you having negative affects because of your foreskin as an adult? No? It's pretty likely your son won't either.



While most of us have boys too young to answer these, I can talk to you about a survey I read...I'm not positive where it was from and I want to say Men's Health but I can't for sure.

Of the respondants who were cut, about 20% were unhappy with it (extremely high for a cosmetic surgery). Of the guys who weren't cut, 3% were unhappy with it.

The difference between the two groups? The intact guys have the freedom to do something about it if they feel so inclined that doesn't involve years of wearing a device on their penis for a mere facsimile.

Answer me this: How does your son having a foreskin affect YOU. It doesn't. It affects HIM for his entire life.


Trust me, as someone who suffered for over 6 years because of my mother in law deciding to butt in her son's sex life, I can tell you this - stay out of your son and his future partner's bed.

ETA:

Answer me this too: Would you remove your daughters foreskin? Yep, girls have them too. And they have smegma and "higher HIV risks" just like a boys. And some think the vaginal area looks nicer without a foreskin. Does that make you want to run out and circumcise a female child? If not, then maybe you should question why you want to do the same thing to a male child.

Also with the circumcision rate (nationally) below 60% (below 30% on the west coast) your kid won't be alone. At all.

And there's plenty of threads on how to explain why brothers are different.
You are exactly right about his foreskin not affecting me. I am not concerned about myself in this decision. I am not one to focus on if I am judged as a mother for not circing by traditionalist. I am only concerned about him.

Again, this is all brand new to me. Two weeks ago...I didn't know anything about the topic. I do not WANT to circumcize anyone, I just assumed that he might be miserable with a foreskin...because he would be the minority among his peers in our state. I know of women that say they would "run" from an uncirced penis. I am not one of them...and I can say that I probably wouldn't want him dating one of those girls anyway..however, that would again be his call.

Thank you for the response!
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