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Non-AP family members? (a little long)  

post #1 of 49
Thread Starter 
hello everyone My name is Lindsay, and I am a new member here, and I am looking for some advice. I am the proud AP momma of 3 boys. Because DH and I married young (I was 19, DH was 22) I was the first of my generation of family members to have children. However, recently my cousin gave birth to twin boys. Now when she first found out she was pregnant, she wanted to know all about AP parenting. She asked about breastfeeding, I took her to several LLL meetings with me, and I gave her all these resources on co-sleeping, not circ'ing and other stuff. Remember, SHE ASKED ME for all this stuff, I was planning to talk to her about all of it, however I didn't want to overwhelm her, what with this being her pregnancy and her being pregnant with twins and all. Now she seemed all excited about AP parenting and her husband was also very, very supportive.

Two weeks before her due date, I ran into her midwife (this midwife is the same one who delivered all three of my boys at home) and I asked about my cousin, and the midwife said "Oh she changed her mind about the homebirth, she is going to give birth at the hospital". Well I thought that maybe she was just nervous because it was her first pregnancy. Then I found out that she chose to have an elective c-section (herself, her husband and even her doctor all admitted that there was no need for a c-setion, that there were no problems and the twins could have been born vaginally) She also told me that she was so heavily medicated that she doesn't even remember the birth at all She said she opted for an elective c-section because labor sounded too hard and she didn't want any pain/tearing etc. This was the first time I visited her at the hospital, and just after she told me this the babies were fussing b/c they were hungry and so she called for her husband who brought in some formula in bottles : I asked her why she wasn't breastfeeding and again she said it was too hard, and she was having latching issues and stuff. I told her I would help her, or that I could contact someone from LLL or a lactation consultant, and she firmly said "No thank-you" I left the hospital very upset. I couldn't believe she gave up on breastfeeding after only trying it once! I decided to try and not let it get to me, however when she brought the babies home from the hospital I found out she and her husband had gotten them circ'ed : They had told me they weren't gonna do that. I couldn't believe it I was so upset I almost cried. Still, I thought she was family so once again I tried so hard to give her the benefit of the doubt. Well a few days later my mother told me that my cousin put the babies in daycare with total strangers and returned to work one week after giving birth She chose not to take any maternity leave (or her husband paternity leave) because she the babies were driving her crazy when she stayed home with them! (for a total of 3 days) All of this caused a major rift in our relationship, and over the next few months we rarely spoke.

Things finally came to a head last at a family gathering. A bunch of my family members (including my cousin, her husband and the babies) came to stay with us. My cousin prepared formula for them (the first time formula was ever EVER prepared under my roof...I bf'ed my boys until just before they turned 4) and on the first night I found out they were using cry-it-out and NOT co-sleeping like they were originally going to do. For nights I had to listen to these babies cry all through the night while their parents purposely ignored them Even my boys asked why the parents just let the babies cry and didn't go to them. On the third day I also found out the babies were vaxed and also that my cousin and her husband had blanket trained them!!! That was the last straw for me, I couldn't believe they hit babies so young (not that hitting older children is right either) and when I confronted her she admitted it though she and her husband used the word "tap" We had a big fight that ended with me throwing them out/them leaving. The kicker is that the rest of my family is on their side! They say that they never judged my parenting methods (which is true, they were nothing but supportive) and so I shouldn't judge hers.

My heart breaks for her little boys. She has moved so far away from being AP that she is on the opposite end of the AP spectrum (if there was such a thing) Now I am trying so hard not to judge her and her husband, but after she KNOWINGLY chose things like formula feeding, circ'ing etc after KNOWING all the facts I am not so sure. The blanket training thing is the worst. Babies are naturally hard wired to move around their environment to learn and explore, and these babies did not move at all, they just sat still, I could almost see the fear in their eyes. I don't know what to do about this. I am so lonely, this has put a real strain on my relationship with them, I haven't spoken to ANY of them in months, including my parents. DH has no living relatives so holidays are stuff are really lonely. My family has said that I have to accept my cousin and her choices or else or relationship will remained the way it is, however I just cannot bring myself to no matter how hard I try. I have tried talking to her, giving her resources etc however she won't listen. Is there anything I can say or do that will make my cousin change her mind? Or should I just accept her choices unconditionally like my family wants? I am feeling really alone right now, and I need some advice and support for other AP parents...Thank-you for letting me vent.
post #2 of 49
Her Lindsay! Welcome!

I think your heart is set on the right place, you want the best for those boys. But I don't think you can change their mind specially if you are not in good terms with them. So yeah I would say, let them be, maybe she'll change her mind later.

I can imagine how hard it is on you, I have friends mainstream and it's hard to have and adult conversation without comming to disagreeements

hugs to you mama!
post #3 of 49
Welcome to MDC! Your heart is in the right place. I'm sorry about the lack of contact with everyone. :
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindsay_mommaof3 View Post
My family has said that I have to accept my cousin and her choices or else or relationship will remained the way it is, however I just cannot bring myself to no matter how hard I try.
Your parents are correct. If you cannot, then you cannot. You kicked them out of your home! Of course they aren't going to have any contact with you (would you want to have contact with anyone because you dared to BF in their home and then got into a fight with you and kicked you out?) and everyone is angry. I am not defending their practices. Ugh. The hitting IS the last straw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindsay_mommaof3 View Post
I have tried talking to her, giving her resources etc however she won't listen. Is there anything I can say or do that will make my cousin change her mind?
That's a shame she won't listen, but that's life. I wouldn't listen to someone who gave me resources about the "benefits" of vaxxing, weaning early, or of circumcizing either. :

The only resource I would try to give her now is advice AGAINST punitive discipline (and possibly anti-CIO stuff). The rest is water under the bridge. She can't have a natural birth back, they can't undue the circumcision, etc... (And honestly, I wouldn't bother giving her any more info. She's done with it. Sad but true.)

Perhaps someone else put the FEAR OF GOD into them over all those topics. (If I don't CIO now, I will never get sleep. ) A lot of people believe : that you have to be mean to children to get them to mind, which is so crazy and destructive and people truly do not see the results down the line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lindsay_mommaof3 View Post
Or should I just accept her choices unconditionally like my family wants? I am feeling really alone right now, and I need some advice and support for other AP parents...Thank-you for letting me vent.
I don't think you should do anything that isn't in your heart. If you can't accept their choices, then do not. How do you force that?

I don't see how this relationship will end well down the road...

On the one hand, you can swallow your anger, "accept" it unconditionally and just pray that the way YOU parent can be the right example. That you don't have to hit to see positive discipline. Etc... But.... down the line those babies will grow up to be possibly abusive towards your own children (nothing wide open either, it will be hidden and sneaky) and then you'll be the one cutting them off because of the chaos they inflict on your children/family. And you'll be lonely again.

So... since you are finding it hard to accept them (no judgement, it's pretty bad and it just got worse and worse) I would let it go. Stop trying to change their minds since they simply aren't OPEN anymore (for whatever reason.)

You can just be civil and polite around them (at gatherings) and that's the end of it.

As far as your parents not talking to you either, that's horrible. I'm sorry.
post #4 of 49
I know those of us that are AP really believe we are doing the best and right things for our children. I hate to see children who aren't worn at least some, spanked, CIO (though I do sometimes) and formula fed (I even BF my adopted daughter!)

However there are many MANY fine and productive members of society that were raised the way your cousin is raising her children. She has made different choices for her children. While you may not approve of them, it doesn't mean she doesn't love her children and want the best for them, she is just making different choices in the way she has raised them.

I'm the only AP member of my family, and I get told all the time that I wear her to much, am to gentle on her, should have already started with spankings (she is 13 m/o) They truly worry for her, however I won't be changed, and neither will they. They are just trying to tell me what they believe is best for my daughter, the way you told your cousin. And she listened to you, but decided to follow a different path.

It is hard when we give someone what we consider to be great advice and they follow a different path.
post #5 of 49
I am so sorry that that is all happening. That makes me so sad to know that those boys are went and are going through that type of thing. What exactly is blanket training? I'm not too keen on the subject.
post #6 of 49
I am so sorry you have to witness this, and I am sorry for those babies. I don't think there is anything you can do unfortunately - they don't exactly sound like they were ready to be parents. Back to work in a week???

What is blanket training? I have never heard of that, perhaps I don't want to know.
post #7 of 49
Maybe you don't know the whole story about the mat leave, in particular. Maybe they have money issues you don't know about. And daycare isn't evil, if you have the right caregivers. There are lots of AP mamas on this board who leave their kids with "total strangers" who are actually very loving. Personally, I trust my daycare provider to care for DD over most of my family members. She doesn't believe in hitting, CIO, etc.
post #8 of 49
i am so sorry for those lil boys if they are being hit i really hope that the mama and dad have the children's best interest at heart... maybe even though they have heard of other ways to parent - this is the only way the know how (sorry - not NOT saying it's ok - just trying to rationazlie it to myself).

Also - what is blanket training - i've never heard of it....
post #9 of 49
What is blanket training? I have never heard of it.

This sounds like such a terrible situation. Those poor poor babies.
post #10 of 49
just a quick search - but is blanket training is "time out" on a blanket? that is the only thing i seem to have found.. not time out as in punishment - but that the child/baby has to stay/play on the blanket while the parent does "x-y-z".. or using blankets as a way to "block" off an area without physically using something (ie baby gates).... it seems like SO MANY variables to this "blanket training"
post #11 of 49
more info on blanket training - found a whole blog about it:

http://inashoe.blogspot.com/2007/08/...revisited.html

here's some key points:

Blanket Training: a definition

/blanket training/: the act of teaching a baby or toddler to stay within the bounds of a blanket which has been spread upon the floor or ground. The blanket and practice may vary widely among users. Often, but not exclusively, practiced in large families.

Blanket Training Misconceptions

Blanket training does not mean that the baby never explores freely; it does not mean that the baby lives on the blanket; it does not mean that the baby cries alone on the blanket while the rest of the family turns up the volume on the television.
Like a playpen, blanket training provides a clear boundary for the baby for those times when you don't want your baby to wander freely. This does not take the place of holding, snuggling, tickling, feeding or any other form of attention. Even when we did blanket one of our babies, she spent very little time on the blanket - just as our babies now spend very little time confined in any way.
post #12 of 49
oh my goodness people!

Most of us are AP here, we are doing it because we think it is what is best for our kids. BUT there are many other people out there who aren't AP because they don't think it is best for their kids. Their children are NOT to be pitied because they aren't being raised in an AP manner. Most kids in this country are not raised in an AP way, and are just fine. Who are we to feel pity because we have made different choices. Are we stepping up and saying that others are bad parents because they don't BF or don't co-sleep or circumcise, or whatever. These aren't abuse issues, they are making some very different parenting choices, but they aren't abusing their kids. It think it is FAR FAR worse to get up on our high horse and proclaim that our parenting choices are wiser and better.
post #13 of 49
Hi Lindsay! Your heart is so definitely in the right place.....and when we find a wonderful way of parenting we want to share it with everyone....forgetting that not everyone wants it. My guess is she did all those things because it was "easier," rather than better.

I have a friend who is pregnant with her first....thankfully she's somewhat holistic-minded. I've sent her tons of info on vaxes, co-sleeping, babywearing, I've given her Dr. Sears books, I try to drop stuff here and there but I have to remember this is her baby and she has to find her way. I guess it's the same with your cousin.....she has to find her way, even if it's not such a great way. People can change and people can learn and educate themselves....sometimes it takes a while. I don't think there's much you can do either but simply let things cool. I've had to do that with a former aquaintence of mine......I don't mind people doing things differently but she did things TOO differently and wasn't tolerant of my choices. I would simply just choose not to be around her, in situations where you can't avoid it, be civil, polite, don't bring up anything unless she asks you for advice. I think that's honestly the best you can do.
post #14 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by erin_d_a View Post
Are we stepping up and saying that others are bad parents because they don't BF or don't co-sleep or circumcise, or whatever. These aren't abuse issues, they are making some very different parenting choices, but they aren't abusing their kids. It think it is FAR FAR worse to get up on our high horse and proclaim that our parenting choices are wiser and better.
You should visit the circ board sometime. Saying that there won't fly.
post #15 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by erin_d_a View Post
I know those of us that are AP really believe we are doing the best and right things for our children. I hate to see children who aren't worn at least some, spanked, CIO (though I do sometimes) and formula fed (I even BF my adopted daughter!)

However there are many MANY fine and productive members of society that were raised the way your cousin is raising her children. She has made different choices for her children. While you may not approve of them, it doesn't mean she doesn't love her children and want the best for them, she is just making different choices in the way she has raised them.

I'm the only AP member of my family, and I get told all the time that I wear her to much, am to gentle on her, should have already started with spankings (she is 13 m/o) They truly worry for her, however I won't be changed, and neither will they. They are just trying to tell me what they believe is best for my daughter, the way you told your cousin. And she listened to you, but decided to follow a different path.

It is hard when we give someone what we consider to be great advice and they follow a different path.
Quote:
She chose not to take any maternity leave (or her husband paternity leave) because she the babies were driving her crazy when she stayed home with them! (for a total of 3 days) All of this caused a major rift in our relationship, and over the next few months we rarely spoke.
I hate to disagree, but what mom gives up after 3 days with her babies and goes back to work? Why have babies if one can't handle being with them? Is that really loving them? Or am I just not seeing the love the way you do?

I can't imagine not being with my babies (esp as newborns and young infants) and I can't fathom having someone else raise my children for me (the day care).

I'm all for not judging how people raise their kids, I chose to parent AP\GD, no vax, no circ, bf and babywearing just as much as OP's cousin choses to circ, vax, not babywear, ect (some of the ect's I so don't agree with, but who am I to say anything about it, I wasn't always AP\GD until I started researching alternative parenting methods).

I just don't see the love for her children but then again I'm not part of her household day in and day out and only have information that was given.

To the OP: you did what you could, you can bring a horse to water but you cannot force that horse to drink kwim? Your heart IS in the right place and I'm sorry about what her choices are doing to you emotionally.
post #16 of 49
Quote:
I hate to disagree, but what mom gives up after 3 days with her babies and goes back to work? Why have babies if one can't handle being with them? Is that really loving them? Or am I just not seeing the love the way you do?
This doesn't seem loving, BUT BUT BUT, I know many moms who suffer from PPD who distance themselves from their children. WE don't know the whole story here.
post #17 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by erin_d_a View Post
This doesn't seem loving, BUT BUT BUT, I know many moms who suffer from PPD who distance themselves from their children. WE don't know the whole story here.
That's what I said, my point exactly. I don't know anymore than what OP posted.

Sheal
post #18 of 49
Parenting issues can really cause true rifts in relationships; it's hard! People become very passionate about parenting. You can believe in what you are doing so wholeheartedly, it's almost like a religion. And then you are expected to turn that off and ignore behavior you see other parents demonstrating - people who you care about - and not think at all about long-term consequences being inflected on children you know deserve better.

You're not wrong to feel strongly about these issues, but you aren't going to change her. I doubt you'll ever be pals again. You DO need real life friends who parent like you for support and commraderie - seek them out - go to LLL meetings - hang out with them as much as possible. Your cousin will never be that pal to you, unless you can completely leave parenting out of the equation or just ... wait it out until all the kids are much older and the non-AP choices aren't in your face as much...

It seems to me that you should just be polite and friendly at family functions and let your relationship go other than that. Don't invite her to stay in your home again, don't try arguing or providing her with more AP education. This isn't an issue that is going to change. Protect your emotions and sanity. Do what is right for your family. Don't emotionally invest in her, basically. It's sad, but reality for many people once they become parents... Parenting can and does change relationships.
post #19 of 49
I understand. My brother and his girlfriend are pg. I really want us to have a connection with parenting and for it to bring us close as a family. I won't be able to talk with them if they're talking about vaxxing, circing, CIO, formula feeding. It'll be tough. I think that they like my parenting from what they've seen, so hopefully, the'll listen to at least some of my advice about natural parenting. I just know I'll be hurt if I find out they circ and vax on schedule or cry it out. I also know it's a real possibility so I better learn to deal with it.

What I tell myself is this: They love their children and they're doing what they do out of love. Maybe she chose all those things out of fear or insecurity, or maybe she really considered those things and thought they'd be the best for the children's future. You have to assume that she loves her children and wants to be a good mother. If you go off of that assumption, maybe you can learn to tolerate their ways. They wouldn't be using CIO in my house anymore though, they'd have to go to a hotel. You have the right to draw your own boundaries as well.

Lisa
post #20 of 49
I think you need to accept that your cousin's choices are her choices to make, just as yours are yours to make. If her parenting bothers you that much to watch, don't invite her to your home. But if you expect your family to unconditionally accept your parenting practices, you should have the same courtesty toward your family members whose parenting practices differ from your own.
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