So apprehensive about bf'ing this time...

[beautiful_mama]

I know I should not be,...but I am.

A little background on me...

I have attempted to nurse all my kids (6 thus far) and every time with one exception I failed miserably because my kids got early jaundice, severe enough to go into the hospital and then LOST over a lb of birth weight and gained back slow until I supplemented and eventually quit within 2-3 months of age (if that for some of them).

Basically, after my last birth my awesome midwife sent to me a very knowledgeable LC in a local hospital (baby 6 was born at a BC) and come to find out all this time...I have breast hypoplasia.

It was hurtful to get the DX, but I was thankful too none the less to know that each time I had tried it wasn't because I was trying hard enough...it was because my body just does not function right.

I was able to wean DS (baby 6) off almost all his formula by age 4 months (coming out of his jaundice stay in hospital he was getting 75% formula daily and by 4 months he was getting less than 10% formula each day)

We ended up nursing until he was a year ( he self weaned after letting me know he was done by practically biting off moms nips a few times, yowchie!! )


Anyway, I used the Goat's Rue blend on Kerry' herbals last time,...

it worked like magic for me, my boobs even got one size bigger : It was lovely...

but again already this pg I have had a few people comment about how *small* my chest looks for being ready to deliver.

I know they mean well, but it's like a freaking stab to my heart everytime I am reminded of how inadequate I am as a woman in this regards
Granted I am glad I live in a day and age where my kids can survive despite this issue...but it still haunts me and has mr already questioning the first few weeks after this baby comes and HOW to go about supplementing as not to jeapordize the relationship of nursing (which is my absolute first priority...besides making sure baby survives of course )

I am kind of looking for suggestions on how you think I might proceed...I have to supplement, I am just not sure when I should start it because I don't know if there are still lasting effects from the Goat's Rue last time etc. (My breasts didn't shrink after ds weaned and even after I lost 45 lbs, they stayed relatively bigger than before, and they did get big initially when I first got pg but have not grown a ton since early pg...does this matter?)

2 things...first I do NOT have time to pump nor will I pump because it's not a *supply* issue...its a mammory issue which means you can't get something from what isn't already there so please dont' suggest I pump, also, I do not have time either...I have 6 other kids that need my attention too, etc. and pumping takes alot of time that I don't have.

Second, I am also apprehensive about using a SNS...only because again time constraints. Getting it out, filling it, hooking it up...yeah, loads of time. many of my kids are still small (I have ages 13,9,7,5,3 and will be two in Oct.) So I need to be able to feed baby and get up and chase a toddler if need be ( I have chased toddlers with baby latched on, yes I CAN multitask, I just cannot imagine needing to do that with another contraption attached so thats kind of not what i am looking at either)

I am just trying to figure out how old I should start the supplementing...and how much?

I hope I didn't put too many parameters in there, i just maybe need some support too and maybe others who have BTDT with this dx going into the nursing relationship and what they did, thanks so much

[2boyzmama]

First of all, good on you for keeping on trying after supposedly "failing" the first several times!!!

I don't know anything about breast hypoplasia (although I can intelligently define the parts of the word and make a pretty good assumption). BUT, I can answer one of your questions for sure: "How old should I start the supplementing, and how much?" Well, that seems easy to me: start when you can't produce enough milk. If baby is growing well, pooping/peeing, and not generally fussy, then you're producing enough milk for the time being. And when you do start supplementing, nurse first until baby pulls off frustrated that he/she's not getting enough, then give an ounce of formula (or donated breastmilk if you can find a local donor) Wait 10 minutes, if baby is still hungry, give another ounce. But be sure to always nurse first, that way baby gets his/her fill of however much breastmilk you can provide before getting the formula.

Again, I applaud you for trying so hard for so many years!!! And just think of how many moms don't even try at all but could have been great milkers?? I lactate like a veritable COW, which I'm very fortunate for, and make sure to share the wealth with friends who are in need. Hopefully you can find a compassionate mom who will help you out, too.

[beautiful_mama]

Originally Posted by 2boyzmama

First of all, good on you for keeping on trying after supposedly "failing" the first several times!!!

I don't know anything about breast hypoplasia (although I can intelligently define the parts of the word and make a pretty good assumption). BUT, I can answer one of your questions for sure: "How old should I start the supplementing, and how much?" Well, that seems easy to me: start when you can't produce enough milk. If baby is growing well, pooping/peeing, and not generally fussy, then you're producing enough milk for the time being. And when you do start supplementing, nurse first until baby pulls off frustrated that he/she's not getting enough, then give an ounce of formula (or donated breastmilk if you can find a local donor) Wait 10 minutes, if baby is still hungry, give another ounce. But be sure to always nurse first, that way baby gets his/her fill of however much breastmilk you can provide before getting the formula.

Again, I applaud you for trying so hard for so many years!!! And just think of how many moms don't even try at all but could have been great milkers?? I lactate like a veritable COW, which I'm very fortunate for, and make sure to share the wealth with friends who are in need. Hopefully you can find a compassionate mom who will help you out, too.

good advice.
Yeah I think my greatest concern is avoiding the jaundice and hospital stays...they are RUTHLESS at our local hospital when itcomes to bf'ing (ok, scratch that they are evil when it comes to bf'ing...with ds, when I took him for addmission at 11 days old...his billi was 22 ...I left him overnight and gave them specific instructions NOT give him more than 1-2 ounces MAX...I come back the next morning to nurse him, and the nurse said he was spitting up a bunch...hmmm....come to find out they were giving my baby...ready for this, ... 4 OUNCES of formula (because he would drink it they said : )
I was soo freaking mad!!) And when I did nurse him that morning they came in eveyr 5 minutes to see if I was giving him his bottle yet. I said NO I will nurse him for an hour,...THEN give him his bottle, leave me alone ya stupid nurse! geesh!! Like I am going to let my baby starve for crying out loud!!

Anyway, my biggest goal is to avoid having jaundice come at all, and since last time I didn't even get the dx until that day (day 11 when the LC was like...um...your baby is YELLOW ( I was in bf'ing denial what can I say ) I am HOPING or rather thinking that if I see even the slightest TINGE of yellow...I'll start the supplementing right away.


Thats awesome that you share with other mamas I wish I had a close by mama whom I could trust and could get some from. Formula is the nastee!!! :Puke

[Electra375]

Well, I was going to suggest a SNS or Lactaid. I hear better things about a Lactaid.
I have a SNS and I do completely understand running after kids is difficult, although not impossible with the SNS, just more "practice" I would say. The tubing once in place w the tape isn't going anywhere if baby is latched on, the only down side I can see in a scenario is if baby unlatches, milk tends to continue to pour out of the SNS tubes until you cut it off with the top/ bottom of the lid thing. Maybe the Lactaid does not do that???

Maybe use a SNS for when you can have help with the other kiddos, like when dh is home, or the oldest has agreed to help watch the littles for 20 minnutes, somthing like that, maybe???

It could just be working toward accepting what you've done before is what works for your family, which I understood to be that baby will nurse some and get some breastmilk and be supplemented with a bottle to complete the feeding session? I have to say bottles do have a small benefit, someone else can feed the baby, I have my 3yr old dd feeding her brother when I'm pumping or need to finish dinner and baby "can't" wait. I think all of my kids have "tried" holding the bottle for the baby. But my dd loves do help in that way the most.

I nurse, pump, fortify ebm and feed in bottles, baby became FTT. It's very time consuming w other children underfoot. It was one thing to just nurse, adding the other stuff well, we are loosing time together -- Mommy and the kids. I tried to use the SNS and nurse, but I needed to quantify intake of fortified EBM for myself and for the docs. I devised a plan that worked for me -- I could nurse AM to wake and PM to sleep and then quantify EBM fortifieds during the day. I just was not up to pumping at night when I needed to sleep, so we nurse at night. And I get one pumping session in after he's been asleep for an hour or so.

I am just trying to figure out how old I should start the supplementing...and how much?

I don't know how to answer this for you. I don't completely understand your condition. I would say supplement when the baby shows signs that the baby needs supplementing. If in the past it has been in the early months, then start at birth to ensure the jaundice is only bf jaundice and not the serious jaundice that landed your LO in the hospital.

Oh, that just made me remember, Feeding Cup. A newborn can drink milk from a cup to avoid nipple confusion. It takes practice to learn, but it is effective.

http://www.breastfeeding.org/articles/cup.html
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/a...e-feeding.html
http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/speci...g.html#babycup (pictures of feeding cup and soft feeder)

I suppose if I were to supplement a newborn again (did 1st child), I would first try a SNS or Lactaid b/c of the nipple confusion issue and need for breast stimulation to get that working as best it can.
My 2nd try would be a cup feeder or soft feeder to avoid nipple confusion. I did give my ds3 at age 5 mo in the hospital his supplements through a cut off nipple b/c he would not suck on the round hard nipples. I cut it off and made a spout - worked great, but a bit messy, we lost some milk to a rag in the learning process. (The hospital we were at did not have orthodontic nipples accept for physical therapy use!!! And they did not have cups for feeding. It was a nightmare stay.)

I use the nice old Gerber NUK nipples for my baby, I did for my 1st child. I like them the best. The Playtex orthodontic style is another one I will use. I think the ortho shapped nips are best, my nipples never look round coming out of any of my babes mouth, they are flatish, smooshed, etc. You know... So if I were just not up to the challenge of the SNS, or cup, I would definitely go with ortho shaped nipples for your bottle feedings.

And the how much? Well, my IBCLC gave me a mathematical formula that I was never able to give to ds3. But here it goes --
Weight of baby in ouces only divided by 6 = number of oz per day that baby needs, divide that by feeding fequency say every 3 hours which is 8 times per day = a feeding need of 4.4 oz

13.7 lbs =215oz /6 = 35.83 oz per day
=4.478/ 3hours 8X / day
4.478*20cal=90
90*8= 720 total calories

My baby at 6 mo old still only takes 3oz per feeding. So I was struggling to meet a standard my baby could not meet.

HTH