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post #141 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by embers View Post

Ad for the comment "what are you going to do when your 13 year old wants to explore crack?"... This just seems so far fetched to me. Some of my largest fears as a parent (especially to a sensory-seeking "balls-to-the-walls" explorer like my oldest) is that my child would become addicted to hard drugs or get involved in a "scene" that would hurt or kill. I have tried to design a family dynamic that would allow for intervention BEFORE things went so far, because we are all connected and collected and communicate openly.
I've read the thread from beginning to end, and I am really curious about this part. What kind of intervention would you design, Embers? Right here is the point before (or immediately after) things have gone too far. You have a history of addiction in your family that you've tried to explain to the boys, yet one is already smoking. It is really hard to keep a blind eye and a watchful one at the same time. What is dangerous becomes harder to see when you're already thick in the middle of it and on the slope.
I don't understand why exploring crack would be so far fetched. It's another step. Your family history says that you don't know how far this is going to go.

I definitely believe in keeping open communication and giving our kids information, but there has to be a firm, family boundary that keeps everyone safe and respected. You are not respecting your children. Not at this point. You are letting them do something illegal that if caught, will break up the family as CPS intervenes. You are letting them harm their bodies in a way where the damage may never be undone.
post #142 of 177
I'm certainly no experts on drugs in general or MJ specifically. I can only comment on my own experiences. I don't know what, if any, other substances the other kids I knew tried first. I honestly don't remember if I had had any caffiene before trying MJ. I was very young, only 10 years old. Sodas and iced tea were not around in my house and I don't know when I first had either one. I do remember that I didn't try coffee until I was in high school. I started drinking alcohol around the same time as trying MJ and I can't say which one came first for me. I had tried cigs much younger and was what I'd consider a regular smoker by the time I was 10, buying my own when I could. When I was partying with my friends after trying MJ for the first time there was only MJ and alcohol available until I was a much older teen, as far as I was aware. I can say that the feeling that I got from MJ was much different and much more intense than the feeling I got from from nicotine or caffiene. I would not put those in the same class as MJ. Nicotine and caffiene do not affect motor skills, judgement and reasoning the way that MJ does, at least not for me. We could, if we wanted, classify everything that we ingest and inhale as a drug since the broadest definition is any substance that causes a chemical reaction in the body. Water does that.
post #143 of 177
I'm about to get a tad long-winded and I apologize, but it is so important for parents to learn the truth about drugs as much as possible so we can accurately prepare our children for these issues.

http://www.drugwatch.org/Alcohol%20&...ay%20Drugs.htm

Quote:
Dr. John Slade reported at the 1989 National Conference on Nicotine Dependence in San Diego, California, that tobacco smoking teaches drug acquisition skills to the youth. He said, "For the most part, they're illegal for kids to buy. In addition, kids who smoke get firsthand experience in using a substance to adjust emotional states." Slade reports that tobacco use teaches drug-taking skills and that tobacco use promotes an attitude that fosters other drug taking behaviors.

Compounding the problem is the relative ease with which youth can access alcohol and tobacco. Both drugs are widely available, inexpensive and heavily marketed, making them especially attractive to youth, who are the most price-sensitive consumer age group.
Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding your post in any way:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
I'm certainly no experts on drugs in general or MJ specifically. I can only comment on my own experiences......
......I had tried cigs much younger and was what I'd consider a regular smoker by the time I was 10, buying my own when I could. When I was partying with my friends after trying MJ for the first time there was only MJ and alcohol available until I was a much older teen, as far as I was aware. I can say that the feeling that I got from MJ was much different and much more intense than the feeling I got from from nicotine or caffiene. I would not put those in the same class as MJ. Nicotine and caffiene do not affect motor skills, judgement and reasoning the way that MJ does, at least not for me. We could, if we wanted, classify everything that we ingest and inhale as a drug since the broadest definition is any substance that causes a chemical reaction in the body. Water does that.
I'm not seeing anywhere in your experiences, as you have related them here, that MJ was a gateway to using other drugs. Even folks who use legalistic terms to define "drugs" admit that tobacco is one and you tried that well before MJ. Regardless of how it made you feel, nicotine is a potent and addictive drug that alters the way your brain works.

Tobacco, alcohol, and caffeine have all been illegal before in different places and times in history because of their addictive and mind-altering properties. All have been used specifically *for* their mind-altering effects. I have friends who seriously abused Mountain Dew during college so they could cram for exams and party all night between exams. I've been quite high and incoherent on caffeine before, myself... working at Starbucks and having to taste all the different types of drinks in two days will do that, I guess... I don't use caffeine often and apparently it affects me a lot when I do.

Also I'm curious (and amused and joking a bit here to hopefully lighten the mood . You seem to be saying that, by your definition, water could be the real gateway drug? Dh considers that breastmilk is much more likely to be the gateway drug by your definition And since light causes chemical reactions in our eyes then we're on drugs all the time! (that last bit was from dh as well : he's a nerd )

I couldn't find your definition anywhere though...

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?drug
Quote:
Main Entry: drug
Pronunciation: 'dr&ug
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English drogge
1 a obsolete : a substance used in dyeing or chemical operations b : a substance used as a medication or in the preparation of medication c according to the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (1) : a substance recognized in an official pharmacopoeia or formulary (2) : a substance intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease (3) : a substance other than food intended to affect the structure or function of the body (4) : a substance intended for use as a component of a medicine but not a device or a component, part, or accessory of a device
2 : a commodity that is not salable or for which there is no demand -- used in the phrase drug on the market
3 : something and often an illegal substance that causes addiction, habituation, or a marked change in consciousness
I'm not continuing this to get into an argument or to belittle anyone's experiences. I just hate to see MJ take all the blame for being a "gateway drug" when the majority of people who go on to use hard drugs (or even MJ itself!) used tobacco or alcohol first. This is important information that tends to get lost in the "OMG, MJ is a gateway drug and is illegal and horrible and evil" shpiel that gets brought into these discussions.

I have a friend who is a heroin junky *because* she was told that MJ was terrible and horrible and "just as bad as heroin" (which I'm certain none of you will tell your children 'cause that's obviously a lie). Some of her friends tried MJ and she saw that nothing terrible happened to them so she tried it too. At that point she'd been smoking cigarettes and drinking for several years (her father was an alcoholic - AND a cop...).

Nothing terrible happened to her when she tried MJ. She then assumed that since she'd been lied to about MJ then everything she was told about all the harder drugs must have been a lie as well. So she went on to try everything else too. You could say that MJ was her gateway to harder drugs since she probably would never have tried harder drugs had she not tried MJ. However, she would also have not tried the harder drugs had she tried MJ, but been told the TRUTH about MJ vs heroin/cocaine/crack/etc.

This is just one of the reasons why I think knowing the truth, as parents, is so important. My friend is partly the reason why I studied up on this so much. I don't want my children (or anyone else's either) to end up like her due to lack of knowledge... It's a terribly hard issue It's a fascinating one to study in-depth also

love and peace.
post #144 of 177
This is a great thread.

Well, here's my experience on it. I came from a hardcore, Bible thumping thou shalt not family. I got heavily into mj and alcohol as a form of escape. I was also smoking a pack a day before I fell pregnant with my son at age 22. I've had addictive issues my entire life, which thankfully I'm over.

My DH came from a family that is very anti-drug, adamently so, but they do drink. DH has never touched anything illegal (I think the issue is primarily that it's "wrong" due to its legal status), and I suspect neither has his older brother. His younger brother is a bit of an experimenter, don't know exactly what he's been up to, though. He's smart enough to keep it under control.

However, a kid that I grew up with was allowed to smoke pot early on and quickly became addicted. He was a heavy tobacco smoker as well. It was to the point that he was showing up for school every day toasted.

I think that there are a lot of factors in who will and who won't become addicted, both social and biological. And I see no problems in saying, "Hey, I know that its intriguing but *we* don't do that for these reasons." You wouldn't allow him to hurt someone else, why allow the potential for life long self harm? Also, as it has been said, you are very vulnerable to getting in trouble with the authorities. If you put your foot down he may sneak around, yes. But if he gets caught, then at least then *you* won't be an accessory to it, rather just another mom whose kid is smoking pot in a parking lot. Not nearly as big of a deal as a mom who allows it. I suspect, too, that he's searching for his boundary. I think that putting the stop sign up at pot is a good place. It doesn't need to go any further than that.

I completely hear where you're coming from, its just that sometimes we have to let go of part of our ideology and just do everything possible to keep our kids safe, even if we have to channel Stalin in the process.

I'm sooo not looking forward to having this conversation with my own boy in 10 years or so... Good luck to you.
post #145 of 177
Just wanted to add a disclaimer. I *know* that mj itself is not an addictive substance, but people can be addicted to the escape it produces. Plus there are those who can be addicted to cough drops, depending on their personalities.

I say legalize the stuff and tax the heck out of it, just keep it out of the kids' hands.
post #146 of 177
Before I start I want to say that I am leaving for vacation for a week today so this will probably be my last post on this thread but that doesn't mean I've run off. I don't want anyone to think this is a hit and run post.

Let's see if I can hit on everything. This may be kind of jumbled and random. I do not think that MJ is evil but I also don't think it's as benign as some people seem to want to make it out to be (unless I am misinterpreting). I totally agree that alcohol, caffiene and nicotine are all drugs. I also agree that tabacco is probably a much more dangerous drug than MJ (although, again I'm not an expert on either so I don't really know how they both work in the body). Tabacco is so adulterated today. Who knows how it would be in comparison to MJ if they were both in their original, natural forms? Maybe tobacco was the gateway for me to MJ (a stronger substance?) and then on to other things? I don't really know. I can tell you that I did not consciously think, "Wow! Tobacco made me feel like this but it wasn't enough. I want to try something more intense." However, once I tried MJ I did think that and I purposefully sought out other illicit drugs.

Based on my first hand experience with caffiene, nicotine and MJ, I can say this about me. Nicotine was probably the most addictive, physically, followed by caffiene. I did not like MJ so I didn't use it much. I have no first hand knowledge of the addictive powers, physical or psychological, that MJ may have. I have known plenty of people who appeared to me to be addicted to MJ in one way or another. They couldn't do anything until they got high. However, there was a big difference in the way those drugs affected me in the moment. Nicotine did not impair my ability to operate machinery or reason. Caffiene could impair those things if I had too much. Alcohol certainly does. MJ is in the same class as alcohol for me when it comes to that. I would not be able to drive a car or think rationally after smoking MJ. That, for me, is the distinction.

I would not knowingly leave my child with a tobacco smoker for the obvious health risks to my child but not because I think they wouldn't be able to provide the basic care that my child needs. I would never knowingly leave my child with someone who was a caffiene addict, either. In that case, I would be very concerned about that person being able to provide basic care. But I'd be fine with someone who likes to have a cup of coffee or two or a caffienated soda or tea. I'd rather that person drink a cup of coffee and stay awake than fall asleep while watching my child. I hope it goes without saying that I would not leave my child with an alcholic but I don't have a problem with someone having a drink as long as they stop there. I would not leave my child with someone who smoked MJ, either, for all the reasons above plus the fact that it is illegal.

My comment about water being considered a drug was supposed to make the point that anything that we consume could be considered a drug so we need to also look at what the effects of those things are on our brains and bodies. The definition I provided of a drug is my own based on my knowledge and understanding of biology, chemistry and what a drug is. Notice that definition #3 had to make the explicit distinction that food is not a drug. If it did not, under the definition that followed it would be considered a drug. Aren't there those who say food is a drug? Also, I think water could be included in definition #4. Water is a component of many drugs.

So, then the question becomes where do we draw the line? Our society has decided to draw the line at how those things we consume effect us. Do they impair our judgement, thinking and reasoning? Do they impair our motor skills? Do they affect our normal biological functions like the ability to stay awake or sleep to the point that it can become a problem? Do they pose serious health risks, side effects?
post #147 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
I would not knowingly leave my child with a tobacco smoker for the obvious health risks to my child but not because I think they wouldn't be able to provide the basic care that my child needs. I would never knowingly leave my child with someone who was a caffiene addict, either. In that case, I would be very concerned about that person being able to provide basic care. But I'd be fine with someone who likes to have a cup of coffee or two or a caffienated soda or tea. I'd rather that person drink a cup of coffee and stay awake than fall asleep while watching my child. I hope it goes without saying that I would not leave my child with an alcholic but I don't have a problem with someone having a drink as long as they stop there. I would not leave my child with someone who smoked MJ, either, for all the reasons above plus the fact that it is illegal.
would you not let any cigarette smoker care for your child? i'm not talking about someone who would smoke indoors or anywhere the child could see it, or maybe not even the whole time they were with the child, if it was just a few hours.

same for mj. if you had an otherwise reliable and loving family member who smoked only recreationally (say, 1x month) and would not be possessing or inhaling any mj during their time, would you never let them stay with your child?

re: bold - mj does for my bipolar what the caffeine does for your example person here. :
post #148 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by caspian's mama View Post
would you not let any cigarette smoker care for your child? i'm not talking about someone who would smoke indoors or anywhere the child could see it, or maybe not even the whole time they were with the child, if it was just a few hours.

same for mj. if you had an otherwise reliable and loving family member who smoked only recreationally (say, 1x month) and would not be possessing or inhaling any mj during their time, would you never let them stay with your child?

I for one would not allow my children to be taken care of by anyone who would break the law, without a really really compelling reason. Others being harmed:Compelling Reason

Need MJ to ward off nausea during cancer treatment or help with other medical condition: Complelling Reason; (It sounds like the quoted poster might be in this category).

BUT:

Want MJ cuz you like the way it makes you feel, though no medical reason. Sorry NO DICE. If you think the law is wrong, work to change it. If the only upside to breaking it is cuz you like to get high, I don't want you taking care of my kids.
post #149 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by maya44 View Post
I for one would not allow my children to be taken care of by anyone who would break the law, without a really really compelling reason. Others being harmed:Compelling Reason

Need MJ to ward off nausea during cancer treatment or help with other medical condition: Complelling Reason; (It sounds like the quoted poster might be in this category).

BUT:

Want MJ cuz you like the way it makes you feel, though no medical reason. Sorry NO DICE. If you think the law is wrong, work to change it. If the only upside to breaking it is cuz you like to get high, I don't want you taking care of my kids.
not only would they not be CARING for my children, they wouldn't be allowed AROUND them, either.

and yes, that includes family.
post #150 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by maya44 View Post
I for one would not allow my children to be taken care of by anyone who would break the law, without a really really compelling reason. Others being harmed:Compelling Reason
does this include anyone who ever drives 5-10 miles/hour over the posted speed limit? i'm not trying to be snarky, just trying to explore the gray areas of life.
post #151 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by embers View Post
Am I doing okay with this? Am I going about this all wrong? I just want my kids to be safe and also to not spin down that ugly road of deception during self exploration. If there is ever a serious drug, alcohol, sex, etc issue later maybe this will be that foundation of trust and acceptance that may make all the difference.
Well, I come from a completely different parenting paradigm than you do, but I have to say that encouraging your 12 year old to smoke/smoke pot knowing that cigarettes are more addictive than heroin and that you and your son could end up with criminal offenses (which could affect your ds for the rest of his life) is not a smart move. "Crawl out your window and do something illegal in the backyard" doesn't seem like wise advice to me. If the police/child welfare were called about this for any reason, I doubt they would have much interest in your "I want us to have open and honest communication" idea. And if I ever found out that one of my kids' friends' parents were allowing/encouraging my child to do something dangerous and illegal, I would be furious.

The fact that you allow him to do it but still want to feign ignorance says a lot to me.

dm
post #152 of 177
Just wanted to add a little more:

I wonder what you would say to your son if he came to you at 30 and said, "Mom, I started smoking when I was 13 and you let me! You told me to climb out my window and smoke! Seventeen years later, I can't quit! Why didn't you stop me from smoking?" Because I think that's a more likely scenario than, "Mom, when I was 13 you wouldn't let me smoke, so I had to sneak my cigs. I'm 30 now and I can't quit! Why didn't you let me smoke freely??"

The other thing I wanted to say (and this is an anecdote, so you can all collectively roll your eyes, because we all know that anecdotes do not equal data) is that I grew up in a fairly traditional home. Although my mom smoked when I was growing up, it was understood that smoking and drugs were a no-no for us kids. My dad frequently lectured us about how dangerous and stupid drugs are. My older sister has never smoked and didn't take her first drink until she was 22. She now has a PhD in immunology.

I started drinking in 7th grade and, when I was 16-18, smoked a bit and did a bunch of drugs. I had to hide it all from my folks. Eventually, I got tired of sneaking around and started to take seriously all the anti-smoking/drugs messages I'd had drummed into me. I saw where my drinking and drugging friends were going (which was nowhere, I saw their lives staying stagnant over those three years). I graduated near the top of my highschool class, went on to college, graduated summa cum laude from college, and have had a fabulous and drug/smoking/alcoholism-free life.

I had a circle of 6 friends that I did my drugs with. We were all middle class kids from conventional families. Five of those kids had parents who "let" their kids do drugs and smoke. Two of those parents would invite the kids over to their houses so we could do our drugs "safely." One of those kids is in and out of jail now. One died of an overdose. Two others still do drugs frequently and are working poor with no higher education and no real prospects for an easier life. One I don't know what happened to. The sixth friend came from a family like mine, who didn't allow their kids to smoke and do drugs. She went to college and became a Russian teacher.

Not to sound snobby, but the two kids whose families set boundaries for their kids (even if their kids flouted them) are the ones who, these days, have comfortable and happy lives. Four of the other five are either dead, incarcerated, or lead very hard lives.

Yeah, it's an anecdote, but it means something to me.

dm
post #153 of 177
Ok, I have read far enough to see that you are feeling bashed and you feel that people are not giving you alternatives about what they would do rather than just telling you that they think what you are doing is not ok.

Here's what I would do if my 13 year old daughter came to me and told me she wanted to try smoking/pot smoking. I would tell her that smoking and pot smoking are not things that our family does. I would explain to her the medical and legal risks. I would tell her that I expected her to abide by our decision that she not do it.

Would she do it anyway? Maybe. I did. My sister didn't. But there is a big difference, in my mind, between saying, "I don't approve and here's why. But in case you don't agree with me, use this lock box to hide your stash and feel free to climb out the window and do it anyway" and saying, "I don't approve and here's why. I expect you to respect my decision."

To me, one is drawing a boundary and giving guidance, and one is not. I honestly don't think it's guidance to give your kids the means to do something you don't approve of, and I agree with a pp who said that it's setting the bar of expectation pretty low.

dm
post #154 of 177
How do you propose not "letting", "allowing" anyone to do anything? I am baffled by the idea that we can control another human being. We really cannot.

I know of a family who adopted a control the kid stance when it came to smoking pot. This poor kid is kept in a virtual prison for wanting to smoke mj...prohibited from spending time with friends...confined to the house...followed and harrassed when trying to get some time away from the house -- unbelievable level of control-attempt. This has been going on over a year.

Kid's solution? Smoke ciggies, pot and pop exstacy at school...until he got caught. Now it is a big legal deal. Parents put head in the sand -- kid cleverly kept the friends who knew how to hide things from parents, but all of the kids who have honest relationships with the world and their parents were cast out.

Result -- this kid and his friends who are sneaking are into the hard stuff and have legal trouble. (Not that this is a hard and fast rule -- just something that happened in this particular case.) The kids with better relationships at home just smoke mj, go to school and continue their lives in peace.

I do not advocate the stance that you tell kids just go do what you want as long as you don't know about it. I think this lacks the opportunity for critical analysis with kids. If you let kids know the truth, then they trust you.

You might still butt heads about boundaries and certain ideas about safety -- but at least it is out in the open and parent has a clear idea of where kid is, what kid is doing and kid does not have to hide anything.

Mj is not as dangerous as alcohol or cigarrettes -- both of which are legal. Mj is not as dangerous as being overweight and having diabetes. Mj is not as dangerous as a lot of the prescription drugs they are freely prescribing to our so-called "bi-polar" and "depressed" children.

ARGGHGGGHHGGGH Do you all really want to continue living in a police state?
post #155 of 177
I don't think that anyone is advocating following their children around like the secret police. I think you've created a false dichotomy. Telling kids not to smoke or do drugs is not equal to imprisoning kids in their homes and following/harassing them.

dm
post #156 of 177
i just finally sat and read through this entire thing. mama embers, are you still around? a few weeks have gone by since your original post. how are things progressing? how did the "boys night out" go? what a great outing, btw. hope they had a blast and forgot (for now) all about mj.

just wanted to say also, because i didn't address it when i first jumped in here:

cigarettes are nasty and evil. after smoking on and off for 16 years (the first time i was 12), i can't imagine what the condition of my lungs must be. and it's SOOOO F'ING HARD to quit, as others have mentioned. nevertheless, i'm trying again after we move next month and i'm quitting smoking mj too (except for recreationally). my daily use will be restricted to a vaporizer or some type of snacky deliciousness. i'm tired of my hair and all my sweaters being stinky (and we don't even smoke indoors). i'm tired of my teeth being funky colored. and i'm really tired of casi seeing me smoke. it is not the model i wish to provide.

just my 2 cents. :
post #157 of 177
I did not read all the posts between now and my last one but I want to respond to Caspian who asked about leaving my child with someone who smoked cigs but wouldn't in my child's presence. I have a sort of contradictory response to this. I do occasionally leave my younger child with my older child who smokes. He does go outside to smoke, which is good, but there are problems with this. He either has to leave my younger child in the house alone (which he doesn't do) or bring him outside while he smokes. My younger ds sees my older ds smoke outside whether he's taking care of him or not. I don't leave him for more than a couple of hours and only when it's absolutely necessary. However, because cigs are so addictive (I know because I used to smoke them) I would have a hard time trusting someone else to go for possibly hours without a cig while watching my children. So, I guess my answer to that is that, if I had a choice, I would not. However, when choosing to leave my child at some random child care place with strangers or leaving him with my older ds who smokes cigs, I choose my older ds.

It's not so much why someone uses a drug, such as using MJ for medicinal purposes, as are the effects of any said drug. I wouldn't leave my child with someone on prescription pain killers because of the effects of those drugs. I, myself, won't take many OTC meds because I would not be able to care for my children afterward.
post #158 of 177
I parent very differently than my own parents, but for some reason, their total hard line on smoking stuck. They're both vehemently anti-smoking - very physically fit and careful about staying healthy. I'm very close to them, and appreciative that they instilled a poor picture of cigarettes in my mind early. It wasn't a "Don't smoke because we say so" but more of a "Smoking is nasty - it wrecks your lungs." "You can tell a smoker by the impact it has on your face." etc. approach. They pointed out exactly what was wrong about it and I knew there was NO way they'd ever be OK with my smoking. So I didn't. Even as a 36 year old mom of 2, in my own home, etc. I'd never dare smoke around them. And I never did (I have a lot of respect for them - they've earned it )

I want my children to be independent decision makers and to think critically and make their own choices, but I will probably take the same approach on this one. It's a boundary that I'm comfortable setting. I think there can be a balance between having limits v. encouraging them to make their own choices. I guess parenting isn't an "either or" thing for me, but a balancing act.
post #159 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
My younger ds sees my older ds smoke outside whether he's taking care of him or not. I don't leave him for more than a couple of hours and only when it's absolutely necessary. However, because cigs are so addictive (I know because I used to smoke them) I would have a hard time trusting someone else to go for possibly hours without a cig while watching my children. So, I guess my answer to that is that, if I had a choice, I would not.
sorry, but this doesn't make any sense to me. you'd rather your younger child stay with an underage (otherwise known as illegal) smoker who knowingly partakes while the child is present, versus a qualified (meaning friend or family) adult smoker? nicotine has often been compared to heroin here, but it's not exactly. i can easily work a full 8hr shift without taking a break. in fact, i usually only smoke 3-4 per day. i guess i'm just wondering why you have such a double standard. if you're trying to keep your younger kid from smoking cigarettes (esp before age 18), having his older brother as a role model doesn't exactly help.
post #160 of 177
This is a long thread, so please forgive if I am saying stuff that has been said before....

With respect to tobacco, I would NOT allow it to be used on my property - at least not at 13. Probably not until 16+. Tobacco is addictive, and we really should do our best to send the message that smoking it is not OK (and we tacitly say it is Ok when we allow it to be done on our property). I would never pay for smokes.

I am going to say something that I think is extremely unpopular (zipping up flame-proof suit, lol) I would consider grounding my child for a solid month if I felt they had a smoking addiction. That might help alleviate the "sneaking around to do it", as well as the addiction. Yes, they would hate me (hopefully temporarily) but tobacco use is serious! It takes an average of 7 years off peoples lives (and my smoking, overweight father dies at 58 ) My DH's father has had 3 heart attacks! It also smells and cost ooddles of money, and is not fun to quit.

As for pot, well, I do not think it has the addiction implications that smoking tobacco has - so it would actually worry me less. But not at 13 - that is too young, imho. NIMBY.

Kathy
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