smoking and pot - Page 2

[kate3]

I guess I'll be the voice of dissent here.

My kids lost 3 of their 4 grandparents as a result of lifelong smoking. Two died of metastatic lung cancer and one due to cardiomyopathy/CHF/chronic obstructive lung disease. All 3 of these grandparents began smoking as teens and tried many times over the years to quit without success. We cared for them as they were dying and it was the most horrific process to be part of. Even with hospice and an incredible amount of medication, the pain they were in was overwhelming.

I think it is naive to believe that "experimenting" won't lead to more smoking (nicotine is one of the most addictive stubstances there is), and exposure at such a young age will only make dependence worse.

I understand that you are attempting to have an open relationship with excellent communication, but parenting also involves setting boundaries and protecting children, not just being their friend. At 13 they are unable to predict the consequences of their actions and cannot see how their behavior today will affect them later in life. That's where you come in.

[todavia]

i don't see the previous posters as being casual about their teens smoking pot. they seem caring and concerned and trying to take an approach that will not alienate their kids or disrupt an open dialogue and trusting relationship.

[kate3]

I've been mulling over this post all afternoon, mostly because I'm one of the only people who disagreed with allowing children to smoke cigarettes and marijuana.

I posted earlier about tobacco, but here are my thoughts on marijuana. Right now, in this country, it is illegal. Whether you think mj should or should not be lealized is irrelevant. Bottom line, if you allow your kids to smoke you are both breaking the law.

So my philosphical take on this is why is it acceptable for you to decide which laws you will abide by? Do you (or anyone else) just simply get to pick and choose based on which ones you like or agree with? Is stealing appropriate if we feel the price of something is too high? Can we park our cars anywhere we feel like it? Can we refuse to pay bills/taxes because we fundamentally disagee with the process? An extreme example would be can we kill someone because we don't like them?

The point I am trying to make is even if you don't agree with mj being illegal, does that make it ok to break the law? What would happen if everyone only abided by the laws they believed in? Wouldn't that create absolute chaos? What kind of message does that send to very young teens about socitial responsibility?

Just some moral/ethical/philosophical points to ponder.................

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by kate3

Just some moral/ethical/philosophical points to ponder.................

Perhaps a spin off thread about the legalization of MJ would be better then taking this thread down that path. If you search for that topic you'll find a ton of threads about it.

But comparing a few puffs on a joint to murder is ridiculous and totally unproductive to this conversation.

[rainbowmoon]

what's going to happen when this 13yo boy and his friends wants to "experiment" w/ smoking crack? : I think letting them smoke anything in your home or on your property is sending the wrong message. because how are they not "hiding" when they smoke out of your DS back window and you don't know about it? because you ARE condoning it indirectly by allowing it, or is it ok and it's not hiding because they are telling you about it? not understanding this at all? I think you are sending very mixed messages to your kids. not to mention 12 ans 13yo is waaaay to young to begin experimenting w/ smoking too, nictotine, pot or otherwise! ickk. : :

[mimim]

Personally, I wouldn't be worried about marijuana, if it wasn't illegal. I'd definitely allow my child to experiment with it in appropriate settings. We'd discuss making responsible choices about when and where and with whom and how often. I would most certainly want to know how they were acquiring it, because that it the most dangerous part of the marijuana experience.

Tobacco is totally different however. It is EXTREMELY addictive. I know this because I am a former smoker and spent years of my life withdrawing from this addictive substance. If my children want to experiment with smoking tobacco I will urge them as strongly as possible to stay away from it. It's so easy to become addicted, that even occasional use is dangerous.

It hasn't come up with my 13 yo yet although we have had many discussions on the subject. I'm thinking my younger kids will be more likely to want to experiment with this stuff.

[kate3]

But comparing a few puffs on a joint to murder is ridiculous and totally unproductive to this conversation.

No, this is not unproductive. If fact, it raises some very important issues. By allowing your children to engage in an illegal act with your consent you are sending the message that some laws are ok to be broken. It is impossible to have a discussion about a 13yo using mj without acknowledging the legal ramifications of the act.

[mimim]

Originally Posted by kate3

No, this is not unproductive. If fact, it raises some very important issues. By allowing your children to engage in an illegal act with your consent you are sending the message that some laws are ok to be broken. It is impossible to have a discussion about a 13yo using mj without acknowledging the legal ramifications of the act.

Some of us do think that not all laws need to be blindly followed. I would encourage my children to evade a military draft, for example. My DH drives over the speed limit regularly, etc.

[Stinkerbell]

I'm going to go back to my position of not encouraging children to break the law but rather, help them find ways to set out to change it. Not to mention, mj use has NOT been studied, long term, anywhere near enough to know what it's true dangers are. It strikes me as irresponsible parenting to give the go ahead for your child to use illegal drugs. What kind of world will we live in if everyone did that?

I'm not trying to slam the OP, but I am really sad about this. I hope your son gets the direction he needs to head on a path of good choices.

[holly6737]

Originally Posted by mimim

Some of us do think that not all laws need to be blindly followed. I would encourage my children to evade a military draft, for example. My DH drives over the speed limit regularly, etc.

Not to mention that in some states (mine included) direct-entry midwives are illegal. Should they also have to follow the law (and no longer catch babies, which in these states, would basically force women into hospital births) just because it's the law? I think the "because the government says so" is a dangerous line of thinking. BTW- I am for legalizing pot too. And I can't really have an opinion of what I would do if my 13 y.o. wanted to do it b/c my oldest is only 2!

[HeidiAnn67]

I have two teenage sons, 19 & 15, and whether you believe it or not I can GUARENTEE they have never smoked pot. My boys are very open with me and I do know about my 19 year old drinking and he knows how I feel about it (and it NEVER has happened in my home, another thing I can guarentee).

The reason I wouldn't want my son's being friends with yours is because you are allowing a child who is not yours and without his parents permission to smoke pot in your home. If any of my son's friends parents had done that with my son it wouldn't have been a pretty scene when I found out.

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by kate3

No, this is not unproductive. If fact, it raises some very important issues. By allowing your children to engage in an illegal act with your consent you are sending the message that some laws are ok to be broken. It is impossible to have a discussion about a 13yo using mj without acknowledging the legal ramifications of the act.

Yes, implying that a few tokes on a joint is equal to murder is ridiculous. For one, they are distinctly different from each other. Just because they both involve breaking the law does not make them even remotely similar.

By all means, have a talk about the legalities of using MJ. But in our home, MJ use will not equate to murder. Nor will it equate parking where I choose, stealing, evading taxes, or speeding.

I generally oppose laws that dictate what I can/can't do in the privacy of my own home. MJ laws fall under that category. The only reason my family would be at "risk" if I chose to partake in the use of MJ would be because it's against the law. Otherwise, a few tokes in the evening before I watch a movie or read a book will not harm anyone. Speeding, murder, stealing, etc, can.

Here in lies the problem with MJ use and children/teens. If you are of the belief that what you do in your own home is no one's business but your family's, and that the decisions you make regarding your own body are no one's choice but your's, then why should this be any different?

But I view breaking the law in regards to my own body as being distinctly different then breaking the law where other people are concerned, like with murder, stealing, speeding, etc. I would not teach my child(ren) otherwise.

To equate this law with the laws regarding murder is not, in my opinion, productive to this conversation.

[readytobedone]

Originally Posted by kate3

By allowing your children to engage in an illegal act with your consent you are sending the message that some laws are ok to be broken.

do you really think all laws should be blindly followed?

i'd rather raise a "law-breaker" than a person incapable of critical thought about dumb laws, of which there are many.

this is not to say people should just break laws without regard for consequences just because they aren't sure the laws are ethical. but making an INFORMED decision to break a law you don't agree with is a form of social criticism--ever heard of civil disobedience?

[the_lissa]

Originally Posted by readytobedone

do you really think all laws should be blindly followed?

i'd rather raise a "law-breaker" than a person incapable of critical thought about dumb laws, of which there are many.

this is not to say people should just break laws without regard for consequences just because they aren't sure the laws are ethical. but making an INFORMED decision to break a law you don't agree with is a form of social criticism--ever heard of civil disobedience?

:

[Arduinna]

I'm not raising a sheeple. I'm raising a thoughtful intelligent free thinking young woman. And yep we don't blindly follow law although we also don;t blindly break them, I prefer informed consent and a rational use of weighing the pros and cons.

[kate3]

this is not to say people should just break laws without regard for consequences just because they aren't sure the laws are ethical. but making an INFORMED decision to break a law you don't agree with is a form of social criticism--ever heard of civil disobedience?

And this brings up a crucial point:
A 13yo does not have adult reasoning or life skills to make these types of INFORMED decisions. That's where parenting comes in. Condoning drug use in a child is way beyond civil disobedience.

[the_lissa]

I disagree.

I certainly did have that ability, as did most people I know.

A friend and I organized a walk-out in high school to protest education cuts.

Hell, my 3 year old can understand basic critical thinking of different rules of different places and what makes some of them illogical.

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by Arduinna

I'm not raising a sheeple. I'm raising a thoughtful intelligent free thinking young woman. And yep we don't blindly follow law although we also don;t blindly break them, I prefer informed consent and a rational use of weighing the pros and cons.

Yes!

Originally Posted by the_lissa

I disagree.

Me too. My life skills at 13 exceed my currently 21 year old sister's life skills. She is eerily niave and immature at times. I really worry about how she will function in society when she leaves my mother's house.

I don't believe age is a diffinite determining factor for a lot of things. In many ways it's just a number.

[holly6737]

Actually, the idea that people under the age of 21 don't have the critical thinking skills of adults is not an opinion, it's a physiological fact that has to do with the development of the prefrontal cortex. Just playing the devil's advocate, not to say those that disagree with the OP are the devil...

[Arduinna]

This is reminding me of the emotional maturity thread in TAO.

While I agree that kids *speaking generally* don't have the same critical thinking skills as adults, that is dependant on the which kid and which adult.

Regardless in this case the parent is the one that is deciding not the kid.