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smoking and pot - Page 3

post #41 of 177
8/17/07 at 7:59pm
I have only read the OP so once I have posted this I will go and finish reading all 3 pages…

I’m not sure I agree with much of what you’ve posted. The approach of basically turning a blind eye to drug use with a 12yo doesn’t feel appropriate to me and not to mention the fact that you have included someone else’s child into this. Yes I do understand that you have had open and frank discussions with your son about drugs and drug use. I honestly think that 4 years ago I may have called the police on you if it were my son that was at your house doing this with your “permission”.

Now fast forward 4 years to now (I’ve been through a lot with my son during this time, he is now 16) I wouldn’t necessarily jump at calling the police on you but I would instead talk to you about my feelings with regards to my 12yo son using in your home with your “permission”.

I do understand what you're doing with your son, it’s just that I don’t share the same parenting style especially when dealing with a 12 yo and drug use.

Now I will go back and read all the responses as believe it or not reading others experiences & advice has actaully changed my way of thinking or at least made me more receptive in the past.
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post #42 of 177
8/17/07 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by holly6737 View Post
Actually, the idea that people under the age of 21 don't have the critical thinking skills of adults is not an opinion, it's a physiological fact that has to do with the development of the prefrontal cortex. Just playing the devil's advocate, not to say those that disagree with the OP are the devil...
If you want to argue this logic, then 16 year olds shouldn't drive, 18 year olds shouldn't go to war, etc..
post #43 of 177
8/17/07 at 9:21pm
Well, actually, no, I don't think 18 year olds are old enough to go to war, and 13 year olds definitely aren't, but that's another topic. Look, I'm all for legalization of marijuana and for it's use under controlled circumstances among informed, consenting adults who understand the consequences of their actions. What I am arguing is that a 13 year old isn't old enough to understand the consequences of his actions. He can say "Oh yeah, Okay, mom, I get it. I smoke marijuana and I die. Thanks", but he really doesn't get it. The prefrontal cortex is still developing until at least 20 years old, and this is the area of the brain that deals with judgement, impulses and understanding consequences. This physiological reason is why many states have banned the death penalty for children under the age of 21. If he can't understand the consequences of his actions, he isn't making an informed decision. The "Natural consequences" style of parenting is very effective, and I'm not arguing that it isn't. We use this quite often with our toddler. But it really only works when there is an immediate, or pretty quick, natural consequence and when that consequence doesn't involve someone being severly hurt. What are the natural consequences that could happen because of this child's drug use? He could be injured by the drug dealer. He could be caught buying, selling or in possession of drugs and be put in jail. He could get lung cancer and die when he's in his 50's. None of those are natural consequences that I would want for my child, personally (although if it were only one night in jail, I might think that would be pretty effective, honestly). If the OP really wants her teenager to understand the consequences of marijuana use, she should introduce him to someone who is in the final stages of lung cancer or someone who's actually been in jail for drug possession. Perhaps this teenager should go talk to someone at the sherriff's department so he can really fully understand how someone is treated when they are charged with marijuana possession (what it's like to be arrested, booked, held in jail, etc.). Only then could I see a valid argument that this child is making an informed decision, and even then I think there are some who might still say no.
post #44 of 177
8/17/07 at 9:35pm
After reading all the responses so far I still feel the same as I did before.

holly6737~ I totally agree with your last post!
post #45 of 177
8/17/07 at 9:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by holly6737 View Post
Well, actually, no, I don't think 18 year olds are old enough to go to war
Well just because it's the law, doesn't make it right. That's the point some of us are making - that just because it's illegal, doesn't mean it's wrong. Some laws suck.

As someone else said; I'd rather raise a "law-breaker" than a person incapable of critical thought about dumb laws.
post #46 of 177
8/17/07 at 10:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeidiAnn67 View Post
I have two teenage sons, 19 & 15, and whether you believe it or not I can GUARENTEE they have never smoked pot.
Well.... I'm 44 and I've never smoked pot, either. Tried a regular smoke once. Color me square. And while I can't guarantee that my nearly 16yo has never tried it (although I'm pretty sure he hasn't), I can guarantee that he doesn't smoke.

I'm sorry, but for a group of people who seem completely paranoid regarding CPS involvement in your lives, I'm shocked at the total disregard towards the consequences of this illegal behavior. 'Cause allowing a pair of 13yo's to smoke illegally IS very likely to bring CPS down on you.
post #47 of 177
8/17/07 at 10:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtiger View Post
I'm sorry, but for a group of people who seem completely paranoid regarding CPS involvement in your lives, I'm shocked at the total disregard towards the consequences of this illegal behavior. 'Cause allowing a pair of 13yo's to smoke illegally IS very likely to bring CPS down on you.
I realize not everyone is paranoid of CPS BUT there are a lto of threads that mention the concern so I did think this too....
post #48 of 177
8/17/07 at 11:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtiger View Post
I'm sorry, but for a group of people who seem completely paranoid regarding CPS involvement in your lives, I'm shocked at the total disregard towards the consequences of this illegal behavior.
I think you should search for my thoughts on CPS before you lump me into that generalization.
post #49 of 177
8/17/07 at 11:50pm
Thread Starter 
There is no "disregard" for the legal or CPS issues at all. Total regard. A LOT of regard. Paranoid regard. We are just TALKING about smoking right now, and I have a HUGE regard for the legal and child services aspect of ANY way that I approach this issue. So... those that are so against me, against my approach, appalled, sad for my poor child, etc... GIVE ME SOME SUGGESTIONS, PLEASE. Give me some honest, real suggestions on what to do, other than simply telling my child not to do it "or else". Read my posts, see where I am at (understand that these boys are not getting high in the yard and partying, but that we are having open CONVERSATIONS about smoking and his curiosity and interest) - and then give me some IDEAS.

No one is saying that smoking is not a problem, or that it should be encouraged. I am simply talking about an APPROACH. One way (mine, in this case) to try to do well by a teenage boy in a culture that wants to just throw them away or instantly consider them all bad.
post #50 of 177
8/17/07 at 11:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kate3 View Post
No, this is not unproductive. If fact, it raises some very important issues. By allowing your children to engage in an illegal act with your consent you are sending the message that some laws are ok to be broken. It is impossible to have a discussion about a 13yo using mj without acknowledging the legal ramifications of the act.
i think its rather i good time to talk about how pot is illegal and tobacco and liquor are and the only real reason is because the government can't make a bunch of money on it because so many people are capable of growing it themselves...
its a great opportunity to discuss the fact that laws are not necessarily good or bad. for instance the laws against native americans practicing their religion i.e. sweats, the sun dance, peyote....or laws that stated black people had to sit in the back of the bus or that women couldn't vote.
laws are made by men, therefore they are incredibly FALLIBLE. i hope my kid is capable of understanding moral and ethical "law" before actual government law... because federal and state laws certainly don't make it "right" or "wrong".
post #51 of 177
8/18/07 at 12:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kate3 View Post
And this brings up a crucial point:
A 13yo does not have adult reasoning or life skills to make these types of INFORMED decisions. That's where parenting comes in. Condoning drug use in a child is way beyond civil disobedience.
a 13 year old is capable of a lot more than you are giving them credit for.
post #52 of 177
8/18/07 at 12:01am
I will think this over more as I don't want to answer too quickly but please please please do not involve someone else's child when you decide to or decide not to allow smoking of any kind at your home.

And for the record I don't think you're a horrible parent and I definitely don't think your son is horrible...I was just being honest about what my gut reaction would have been 4 years ago when my son was 12-13yo.
post #53 of 177
8/18/07 at 1:51am
I've spent several years of my life reading everything I could get my hot little hands on about drugs and drug use. I don't use any drugs (other than the occasional chocolate bar and my beloved daily cup of black tea : ) at the moment. That's where I'm coming from, and here is my opinion -

I would have a much bigger problem with the cigarettes than the pot... I would be okay with my children trying organic home-grown tobacco, but mass-grown tobacco is quite radioactive which is (I believe) why there are so many health issues related to its use - and mass-produced cigarettes are right up there with meth and E on the (mental) list of the drugs I would least like my children to experiment with... Tobacco use is much safer when it is smoked in a pipe because it's a smaller quantity and requires more work to smoke (keeping it going, etc).

As for the legality of cannabis - if it doesn't harm anyone else (other than potentially the user), if there is no victim, then why is it illegal? If the user him/herself is the victim then why are we punishing the "victim" with fines and jail time anyhow?

I highly recommend that you (general *you* who believe in being open and honest with your children about drug use) buy your teens a copy of Dr. Andrew Weil's book "From Chocolate to Morphine" It is geared specifically to teens and does not preach abstinence, but moderation. It does not utilize fear tactics, but truth (both good and bad), along with guidelines for teens to make experimentation with drugs as safe as it can possibly be.

love and peace.
post #54 of 177
8/18/07 at 1:59am
Thread Starter 
trmpetplaya, can you PM me some information about the radioactivity of commercial cigarettes/tobacco?

I will buy that book for my older two, thanks!
post #55 of 177
8/18/07 at 3:41am
trmpetplaya- Thank you for the book recommendation. I wasn't aware that Weil had written a book on this topic. I have enjoyed one other informative book by the same author and I'll bet this is another good one. I'm looking for something of this nature to share with my 14 yo dd.
post #56 of 177
8/18/07 at 8:39am
Here is a story about parents jailed for allowing teens to drink alcohol on their premises.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...0802795_2.html


No one drove or got hurt, but the mom is still going to jail, it's so sad!

Show this to your son and have a discussion about it. Perhaps it will help him realize the serious jepoardy he puts you (and himself, by not having you around) in.
post #57 of 177
8/18/07 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by maya44 View Post
No one drove or got hurt, but the mom is still going to jail, it's so sad!
But what she did was illegal. As bad, she apparently lied to the other kids' parents about the booze. It wasn't her place in any way, shape or form to make the decision to allow the other kids to drink.
post #58 of 177
8/18/07 at 11:03am
Well.. what can I say, majority of people here will understand me as a controlling parent to a mindless being who is disrespected by her parents because they would not tolerate smoking in the house (not because it is illegal, but because it is very harmful to a child's health).

We are mindless puppets of the goverment, dont' know right from wrong, and could care less about child's freedom to explore. We do not respect our child, we do not hold open discussions, and FOR SURE our teenager is doing a whole number of things behind our back...

Here is a side of argument I don't understand though...

If people claim that they have great communitcation with their children, then how come I chose to accept my parents' values and never smoked (I'm certain they would never allow it, but I understood their concern regarding drugs and smoking well enough not to want to go "experiment" inside or outside the house..) Does it mean that I have no opinions of my own? Does that mean to you that I will always follow the goverment rules? Does that mean that I was not raised to see what's important in life? Or that I can't make my own choices? Or that I can't hold heart to heart discussons with my parents? Or my child?.. :

I think our value system "rubbs off" on our kids, and if they feel you are ok with allowing certain things - then those things are much more likely to happen in your house. And for every adult who says "well, didn't stop me when I was a kid!", there is another adult saying "well, never meant I would go behind my parents' back to smoke / do drugs / have sex / etc. etc.)".
post #59 of 177
8/18/07 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oriole View Post
Well.. what can I say, majority of people here will understand me as a controlling parent to a mindless being who is disrespected by her parents because they would not tolerate smoking in the house (not because it is illegal, but because it is very harmful to a child's health).

We are mindless puppets of the goverment, dont' know right from wrong, and could care less about child's freedom to explore. We do not respect our child, we do not hold open discussions, and FOR SURE our teenager is doing a whole number of things behind our back...
You're just a tool of the man, Oriole.
post #60 of 177
8/18/07 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellymama View Post
a 13 year old is capable of a lot more than you are giving them credit for.
So is MJ and smoking.