smoking and pot - Page 4

[sunnysideup]

I sympathize with you, embers. This teenager stuff doesn't come easily for me. I am the parent that lets the toddler climb on the back of the sofa. I like the approach of giving my children information and allowing them to make their own decisions, even when that results in the occasional lump.

That said...

Originally Posted by Oriole

I think our value system "rubs off" on our kids, and if they feel you are ok with allowing certain things - then those things are much more likely to happen in your house.

whether we like it or not, we are helping our children set their expectations for themselves--even more so when we have a close and trusting relationship. They look to us to see what we expect of them. Having the attitude of "they're going to do it no matter what" sets the bar pretty low.

[bellymama]

Originally Posted by Oriole

So is MJ and smoking.

i'm not following this. mj and smoking are capable of more than i give them credit for? could you post again to clarify? not being snarky, i swear, i just read this a bunch of times and i am not 100% sure what you mean exactly. thanks!

[North_Of_60]

Originally Posted by maya44

Here is a story about parents jailed for allowing teens to drink alcohol on their premises.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...0802795_2.html


No one drove or got hurt, but the mom is still going to jail, it's so sad!

Show this to your son and have a discussion about it. Perhaps it will help him realize the serious jeopardy he puts you (and himself, by not having you around) in.

If my child went to a party and I called the parents to see if there was alcohol there and they lied to be, supplied my child with beer and wine, and then tried to get my child hide the smell of it... well, I'd want them to go to jail too!!

That's why the OP absolutely should not include other children in her son's "exploration". I wouldn't even talk to the other boy. If he wanted to be included in the discussions, I would call the other parents and tell them that the boys are curious and that some discussions are popping up, and leave it up to her to discuss it with her son, or give you the go ahead.

But if you're not involving half the neighborhood then what would the problem be? I've already said before that what happens in the privacy of your home is no one's business but your's, but I tend to think that when you have a house full of OTHER people's kids, you kind of loose your right to that privacy.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by North_Of_60

If my child went to a party and I called the parents to see if there was alcohol there and they lied to be, supplied my child with beer and wine, and then tried to get my child hide the smell of it... well, I'd want them to go to jail too!!

That's why the OP absolutely should not include other children in her son's "exploration". I wouldn't even talk to the other boy. If he wanted to be included in the discussions, I would call the other parents and tell them that the boys are curious and that some discussions are popping up, and leave it up to her to discuss it with her son, or give you the go ahead.

But if you're not involving half the neighborhood then what would the problem be? I've already said before that what happens in the privacy of your home is no one's business but your's, but I tend to think that when you have a house full of OTHER people's kids, you kind of loose your right to that privacy.

I have to agree with this.

[trmpetplaya]

Another excellent book to get (and read yourself first) is Dr. Weil's "The Natural Mind" which explores the theory that human beings have a need to alter consciousness. Dr. Weil examines the different methods of altering consciousness and how they differ from each other. These methods range from drug use (requires little skill and gives bodily "feedback" - being impaired in various ways) to meditation (requires much skill and doesn't give bodily "feedback" and thus gives a "more pure high").

If I could have parents and teens read any three books about drug use it would be the above book, the one I mentioned in my pp, and the Consumers Guide to Licit and Illicit Drugs. My children will be reading all of them at some point and I have read all of them.

Dr. Weil compares the drive to alter consciousness to the sex drive and just as we prepare our children to deal with their sex drive in less harmful ways (masturbation, for example), we need to prepare our teens to make the best decisions regarding altering consciousness. Their decisions may be different than we think they should be (ie - they may still experiment with drugs even if we encourage meditation just like they may still go out and have sex even if we encourage masturbation), but at least they'll be informed and know what we expect of them. They will also have the knowledge to make their experimentation as safe as possible if they do choose to, thus minimizing their risks of becoming addicted or abusers.

love and peace.

[AbundantLife]

I would not allow it in my home.

I'm all for the "no shame" method of parenting, especially when it comes to teens and pre-teens, but you have to draw the line on illegal activities.

[AbundantLife]

Some food for thought for those parents who condone marijuana smoking.

Teens and Marijuana


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marijuana is the most widely used illicit drug in the United States. It tends to be the first illegal drug that teens use. Nearly one in ten teens ages 12 to 17 currently used marijuana in the United States. Nearly a quarter of eighth graders reported that they had already tried it. A 1997 survey of Michigan high-school students showed that 48 percent of students surveyed had tried marijuana and 28 percent were current users.


"Adolescents are particularly at risk of adverse reactions from hallucinogen use as they enter puberty, a time of rapid physical and emotional changes. Hallucinogens are particularly dangerous because the effects are so unpredictable. They can cause violent behavior in some and suicidal tendencies in others. As memory, perception, and judgment are clouded under the influence, users are at risk of severe injuries, overdose, and death from drowning, burns, falls, and car accidents. Sometimes, hallucinogen use can uncover severe mental disorders, such as schizophrenia or severe depression." Texas Commission on Alcohol and Drug Abuse

In my opinion, allowing your children to smoke pot is akin to child abuse.

Seriously, folks, when did parenting become a constant questioning of whether or not we were doing the right thing by our children? Having an open, honest relationship with your child does not mean we allow them to abuse their bodies.

[readytobedone]

Originally Posted by bellymama

i think its rather i good time to talk about how pot is illegal and tobacco and liquor are and the only real reason is because the government can't make a bunch of money on it because so many people are capable of growing it themselves...
its a great opportunity to discuss the fact that laws are not necessarily good or bad. for instance the laws against native americans practicing their religion i.e. sweats, the sun dance, peyote....or laws that stated black people had to sit in the back of the bus or that women couldn't vote.
laws are made by men, therefore they are incredibly FALLIBLE. i hope my kid is capable of understanding moral and ethical "law" before actual government law... because federal and state laws certainly don't make it "right" or "wrong".

:

i actually could not DISAGREE more with everyone who is saying you have to teach your kids to obey laws. that is a really dangerous type of thinking because sometimes laws are just FREAKING WRONG! like the rider in the homeland security act that kept parents from suing pharmaceutical companies over thimerasol in vaccines--

that law is WRONG. the goverment is CORRUPT. if you teach kids to follow every law the same, you're not teaching them to think for themselves, and you're adding more "sheeples" to the population. as if we need more--how do you think we're still in iraq? sheeples!!!

[embers]

I am confused and appalled at the posts bashing my child or myself. I have not DONE anything yet, I have only had conversations, used serious critical thought, and asked for opinions and suggestions. Why would you not want your child to be my child's friend? Because he is a curious and world-aware person that feels comfortable coming to his parents for information and to discuss his interest in exploring smoking? Or because I did not completely think out every ramification and possible ethical and legal side of the issue before having conversations with my son and posting asking for input? Like I said in my first post, this is a brand new topic in our family and that my stance, my process, and my plans may change and change again until it is "right" (meaning, right for our family and I am at ease with myself inside). This is a PROCESS. I do not ignore or postpone certain topics with my children because I have not yet formulated the perfect responses. We talk in the moment... in real life... like PEOPLE do. We also know that we can go back and revisit thing, make changes as we think and learn, and try again. That is the glory and value of TALKING about things before doing them. I do not see why someone would need to stick their head into this thread to simply say they are glad that their children do not know my son or myself. That is a painful thing to say, and the intolerance behind it is ugly. AND it does not help me one turd; I have asked for ideas and suggestions from those that take a different stance or highly disagree with my method. I am exploring all angles and want to do right by my children (and other people's children). If you can leap up to post a few lines against me or my child, could you also pop up and post a few lines on how you think that we could instead do better? I promise to take it into consideration open mindedly and MAY even incorporate it into my parenting style - on this subject and others.

Ad for the comment "what are you going to do when your 13 year old wants to explore crack?"... This just seems so far fetched to me. Some of my largest fears as a parent (especially to a sensory-seeking "balls-to-the-walls" explorer like my oldest) is that my child would become addicted to hard drugs or get involved in a "scene" that would hurt or kill. I have tried to design a family dynamic that would allow for intervention BEFORE things went so far, because we are all connected and collected and communicate openly. I am at a point with my child that most parents are NEVER part of; that little exploration of trying a cigarette for trying pot for the first times. Usually a kid sneaks and samples a puff off of a friend's smoke or one they find (or "bum" one), or they may try pot with older kids or young adults, putting themselves in potential danger (but not realizing it until they are adults and look back) in order to try it. They never tell their parents, and they don't get hooked on crack. My situation is rare in that my child has no reason to hide his curiosity and I have not pushed him away or reacted much at all (I have paused, though, acted, and then reflected.. and then did it again and again... but I have not REACTED). I certainly do not see how my child would get the message from me that smoking crack is a good idea. Heaven forbid that he ever get into a situation that serious, our connection and openness may be the difference between help (life) and total obliviousness (death) with his problem. So my answer: If my 13 year old was exploring crack he would get help, rehab, therapy, and support. That is very different than my nearly 13 year old coming to me curious about trying cigarettes and pot.

[readytobedone]

Originally Posted by AbundantLife

Some food for thought for those parents who condone marijuana smoking.

Teens and Marijuana


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marijuana is the most widely used illicit drug in the United States. It tends to be the first illegal drug that teens use. Nearly one in ten teens ages 12 to 17 currently used marijuana in the United States. Nearly a quarter of eighth graders reported that they had already tried it. A 1997 survey of Michigan high-school students showed that 48 percent of students surveyed had tried marijuana and 28 percent were current users.


"Adolescents are particularly at risk of adverse reactions from hallucinogen use as they enter puberty, a time of rapid physical and emotional changes. Hallucinogens are particularly dangerous because the effects are so unpredictable. They can cause violent behavior in some and suicidal tendencies in others. As memory, perception, and judgment are clouded under the influence, users are at risk of severe injuries, overdose, and death from drowning, burns, falls, and car accidents. Sometimes, hallucinogen use can uncover severe mental disorders, such as schizophrenia or severe depression." Texas Commission on Alcohol and Drug Abuse

In my opinion, allowing your children to smoke pot is akin to child abuse.

Seriously, folks, when did parenting become a constant questioning of whether or not we were doing the right thing by our children? Having an open, honest relationship with your child does not mean we allow them to abuse their bodies.

all your post does IMO is prove the point that most kids WILL try pot, so this mama (and everyone who is or will be a parent of a teen) needs to remember that. it's not realistic to think they won't, even though not all do.

also, pot is not a hallucinogen. it's never made me hallucinate. i've done pot, i've done hallucinogens; it's not one. i don't get what that quote is supposed to have to do with pot.

and you don't "allow" your children to do drugs. they just, in many cases (though admittedly NOT all) do them. it's like sex in that way--i didn't ask my parents to do it, they didn't allow or disallow it. (IMO that would be creepy--it's my body, not theirs, regardless of my age.) i just did it. so the question isn't what this mama should "allow" but how she should respond to her children's actions.

[trmpetplaya]

Originally Posted by readytobedone

also, pot is not a hallucinogen. it's never made me hallucinate. i've done pot, i've done hallucinogens; it's not one. i don't get what that quote is supposed to have to do with pot.

Precisely.

Cannabis has been known to be in a class by itself as far as what type of drug it is for several decades. People used to consider it a narcotic back in the 30s and 40s. Now we know it's definitely not one. It doesn't act like one. Nor does it act like a hallucinogen. That's why it usually merits its own chapter in books about the effects of different types of drugs.

love and peace.

[E.V. Lowi]

Sorry,Abundant Life, but I wouldn't trust any info coming out of a commission in Texas!

I'm a bit biased on the subject; I live in a city that voted to make MJ use the lowest priority for police, lower than jaywalking even, which I believe is sensible. I'm also in a state that voted to legalized MJ for medicinal use, which I think is appropriate. I don't want my kids to use drug of any kind, including alcohol, recreationally or for any other reason, if possible. I hope that they will find healthier ways to entertain themselves, but supporting that endeavor began years ago. Once a child decides that they want to experience something, I don't think any kind of threats or punishment will change their course, at that point.

Why are some of you pps demonizing the op for trying to navigate this treacherous and chaotic phase know as the teenage years, in an AP way? I think your insulting comments are unsuppotive and don't belong on this natural parenting forum.

OP- I think that you deserve kudos for keeping an open dialog with your inquisitive son. Continue to impress upon him your concern about the addiction and health issues. Express your disapproval! Remind him of the legal considerations, and that it puts the whole household in jeopardy and in all fairness, he shouldn't put you in the position to go to jail, because of his friend and what the parents might do. But the fact is- it is your son's body and he can choose to put into it, whatever he wants. You won't be able to control him every minute of the day and night. It is his right to choose how he will care for his own health and well being. At this point, he should know that addictions run in the family, but it is his choice to decide if he will walk that path, or not.

One more thought and a question for harpies who posted to this thread- were you ever young or did having children give you amnesia about how it is to be 13? The teenage years are a time for truth seeking and wanting to experience everything for themselves, for that reason. Just because they try something once, does not mean that they will make a habit out of it. Keeping them safe through these years is the upmost consideration, IMHO and it sounds as if the op is doing everything in her power to insure this. I believe that she in on the right track and should be supported.

[embers]

Originally Posted by AbundantLife

I would not allow it in my home.

I'm all for the "no shame" method of parenting, especially when it comes to teens and pre-teens, but you have to draw the line on illegal activities.

Originally Posted by AbundantLife

deleted.

I respected your first post, and I took it into my mind while formulating my approach on this subject (and future subjects).

Your second post was unneeded, mean, pointless, and I am GLAD that you chose to delete it (no matter what your reason for deleting it was).

AbundantLife, as for your post about pot.... Texas Commission on Alcohol and Drug Abuse? 'Nuff said.

[MarineWife]

I'm in a similar situation with my 16yo ds. He started telling me about trying pot when he was about 14. He says he doesn't do it anymore. I guess he just didn't like it much. I was the same way...interesting. Anyway, he does smoke cigarettes, which I struggle with. It's a nasty, smelly, expensive, unhealthy habit that can become an addiction. I was addicted to cigs until I was 29 years old. Actually, I guess I'm still addicted, just not using. Once an addict, always an addict, right? I talked to him about why I wish he would quit smoking but he says he knows all that stuff but he doesn't want to quit. I now let him smoke his cigs on my porch but not in the house for the health of the rest of us. He respects that. I have to respect his choices. I cannot control what he does. He's going to smoke whether I want him to or not and, like you said, I don't want him to have to sneak and be dishonest. I would not allow any illegal behavior in or around my home, though. That's my personal boundary. By the way, it's not illegal in my state for teenagers to be in possession of tobacco or smoke it. It's only illegal for them to buy it. I remember my main concern about him smoking around my home. My 3yo likes to go outside with him and his friends. Of course, they are out there to smoke so my 3yo sees it. In the car the other day he said he wanted to be just like big brother and, among other things, smoke cigs. Today he was pretending that his drinking straw was a cig.

I think if you feel comfortable with your decision to allow him to do those things at home, that's the right thing to do for your family. I would be concerned about the other child, though. That could get you and your family into trouble if the other parents found out their child was smoking MJ at your house and reported you for allowing it.

[Tishie]

Seriously, folks, when did parenting become a constant questioning of whether or not we were doing the right thing by our children?

I think at the beginning of time. Is parenting supposed to NOT be about trying to do the right thing?

Anyway, I am one of those who has honest and open discussions with my teen, and I know he's tried smoking ciggs, hasn't tried pot (yet). I encourage my kids to question the law and all authority. Pot being illegal is stupid and due to lobbyists and racism. I couldn't give a lesser poo about the illegality of marijuana (except to say that it should be legal).

[AbundantLife]

embers,
You asked for advice. I have a 13 year old and a 17 year old. Neither of them has tried pot. The values we have given to our boys was drugs are not for us as a family. They have friends who have tried drugs and friends who have engaged in other risky behaviors, such as binge drinking, using firearms, and reckless driving.

If I found out that either of my kids were participating in behaviors that we have labeled as risky, I would seriously wonder where the communication and trust had broken down between us.

We are the parents and it is our job to protect our children and guide them to make healthy decisions. Sometimes we have to be the parents and set boundaries for our children. They need us to do this. I'm sorry if this is an unpopular opinion here on this forum, but in my experience, this is what I have found.
By no means are my boys angels. They have made mistakes and hopefully learned from them.

[Tishie]

If I found out that either of my kids were participating in behaviors that we have labeled as risky, I would seriously wonder where the communication and trust had broken down between us.

I totally understand this, and I'd do the same thing because secrets can make me question our communication also. However, I think we'd both be being too hard on ourselves. Sometimes kids just go off and do what they feel like doing, no matter how great the communication is. Sometimes kids like to do things their parents don't know about because it's a natural part of adolescence to do so.

[embers]

AbundantLife,

What would your children do if they tried pot or smoking?

Would they tell you?

Would they be safe?

Would they fear your reaction, exclusion from the family, a sense of disownership and dishonor ("I raised my kids to have good morals to match mine...")... I mean, seriously here, you are barely stopping short of BLAMING me for my child's curiosity and insinuating it is because I have failed in my parenting up to this point. What would happen inside of your family if you discovered that your child was smoking and hiding it from you, lying to match your morals and say what you need to hear in order to accept them, and essentially living a dual life over trying a cigarette?

You said, "If I found out that either of my kids were participating in behaviors that we have labeled as risky, I would seriously wonder where the communication and trust had broken down between us." I would probably feel the same way, fir I FOUND OUT that my children were participating in behaviors that we labeled as risky. I do not think that my child coming to me and talking about his curiosity and interest is a communication and trust breakdown. I feel that it is the opposite.

[<~*MamaRose*~>]

Originally Posted by Tishie

Sometimes kids just go off and do what they feel like doing, no matter how great the communication is. Sometimes kids like to do things their parents don't know about because it's a natural part of adolescence to do so.

[AbundantLife]

Adolescence is a tricky time, for sure. Sure, they do go off and do what they want to do anyway... sometimes.

I don't know if they would tell me or not. So far, they have told me when they have done other things that they knew I wouldn't approve of.

I was not insinuating anything regarding your parenting. We all do things differently here (maybe some more than others).

Discipline is something we have instilled in our children from an early age. I just don't agree with the notion that a "no getting in trouble" philosophy is the best way to raise children. This is my opinion and this is the way we have raised our kids and it's worked for us. Somewhere along the way your kids thought it was OK at the age of 12 to try drugs and my didn't. If my disapproval stops my adolescent from making a bad decision, then I'm OK with that. I also agree with the the poster who said that our values "rub off" on our children.

I only know how I reacted when I found out my oldest had done something we didn't approve of. I talked to him about the risks of the behavior, shared my insights with him, and we discussed other choices he could have made.

embers, I also wanted to add that disapproval from a parent is not going to hinder our relationship. I don't know, maybe I'm just from a different generation than you are, but the possiblity of my parents finding out about a certain thing was enough to make me think twice about doing it. Oh, and my parents and I have a wonderful relationship. Hey, if you want to let your 12 year old smoke pot in his room, by all means, go for it.