Please define discipline vs punishment

[kindacrunchy]

I need this for my hubby. thanks!

[kkeris]

I think there are many forms of discipline so its really subjective? Discipline means to 'teach', so punitive discipline is still discipline? Not sure if this is what you are asking, or do you mean the difference between non-punitive and punitive discipline?

[mommy2abigail]

Discipline: to teach, to instruct, to guide. is not harmful/painful/shaming to either party.
Punish: to inflict pain, physically, mentally, emotionally, to belittle, outcast, ignore, or coerce in order to manipulate another to behave/do what you want them to.

There are alot of factors, but that's the basic definition I use...

[elizawill]

well, my husband thinks i'm a left field hippie GD mama, but compared to most here, i'm super duper conservative! for me GD means i dont hit, scream at, or shame & humiliate my children. i use natural consequences, but i also use logical consequences, but above all - we try to just talk it out. punishment imo involves a parent's reaction to something they feel their child did that was "wrong" or disobedient. but it often lacks teaching the child anything. it's more fear based imo.......like if you spank your kid or scream in their face because they wet their pants or because they lie to you...or they push their sister -- you may get the child to bend to do your will by spanking them or screaming in their face ...but did they really learn anything? it's all fear-based, yk?

now, i do use some coercion though, which is frowned upon here but i'm very comfortable with my parenting choice. my children have mealtime ...and bedtime ...and teeth brushing time... and bath time ...and homeschool time, etc. i don't mind telling them "this is what we are doing right now" - and they understand it's not negotiable. i try to give them choices with each transition (what subject do you want to do first / what should we make for dinner? would you like to help me cook? etc) and i also give them a 15 minute notice or so before each transition. i really need a schedule to keep me sane though, as it keeps me from screaming my head off or losing my mind.:

in the past, i felt like parenting was more of a chore, and i love that i actually enjoy my family now. it's a wonderful feeling!

[LoveBeads]

For me, the simple way to look at it is if I visualize "sides" and power structure.

With discipline, my DD and I are on the same side, looking for a solution. There is a less obvious power structure.

With punishment, I am on one side and she is on another. I am the one in control and she is the one who has no control.

[mamaduck]

I think discipline is about teaching, like other posters have mentioned, but I think discipline is rooted in self. Discipline is something we aquire and use to control and manage ourselves, and to resist our negative impulses. So when we talk about discipline and children, we are talking about something we impart to them on an internal level -- discipline is a tool they learn to use in order to succeed more often in life. And parents have the pleasure of teaching this tool gradually -- it takes a long time, and we have to have it within ourselves before we can teach it.

Discipline is about learning self-control, and it is motivated by trust and reason. And it is a choice -- there is always the possibility of our kids choosing otherwise. And yes, it is scary sometimes, but when they choose well without coersion, its a really beautiful thing .

But punishment is about controlling other people. A punishment can be arbitrary, and the only point is to make the other person feel pain or discomfort (but it doesn't have to be physical) that they associate with a behavior, so that they tend not to repeat the behavior for fear of the associated punishment. It is strictly external control.

[hippymomma69]

Originally Posted by mamaduck

I think discipline is about teaching, like other posters have mentioned, but I think discipline is rooted in self. Discipline is something we aquire and use to control and manage ourselves, and to resist our negative impulses. So when we talk about discipline and children, we are talking about something we impart to them on an internal level -- discipline is a tool they learn to use in order to succeed more often in life. And parents have the pleasure of teaching this tool gradually -- it takes a long time, and we have to have it within ourselves before we can teach it.

Discipline is about learning self-control, and it is motivated by trust and reason. And it is a choice -- there is always the possibility of our kids choosing otherwise. And yes, it is scary sometimes, but when they choose well without coersion, its a really beautiful thing .

But punishment is about controlling other people. A punishment can be arbitrary, and the only point is to make the other person feel pain or discomfort (but it doesn't have to be physical) that they associate with a behavior, so that they tend not to repeat the behavior for fear of the associated punishment. It is strictly external control.

:

I would say discipline is about teaching "self-discipline" or self-regulation - so your child will behave appropriately even when you aren't there. That requires more teaching than punishments. The child has to learn empathy and a sense of right and wrong that comes from within.

Punishment is about making your child behave by fearing consequences - thus depending on an authority figure to define what is right and wrong.

hth
peace,
robyn

[Daffodil]

To me, punishment is: When your kid does something you don't want him to do, you make something happen that he won't like (time out, taking away a privilege or fun activity, making him do an extra chore, etc.), in order to discourage him from doing it again.

Discipline is getting your kids to act in the ways you want them to. Punishment can be part of a discipline system, but doesn't have to be.

[DevaMajka]

Discipline is teaching, guiding, instructing, etc. I agree with the pp that punishment could be a part of some discipline systems, but certainly doesn't have to be.

non-punitive discipline includes explaining, teaching acceptable alternatives, and *helping* kids do the right thing. Ideally, this helps develop self-discipline. (they know why they should or shouldn't do certain things, and they know that there are other ways to express their needs and get their needs met.). It involves working together, on the same "team".

punishment causes pain, physical or emotional, or is otherwise quite unpleasant. Punishment, at best, teaches kids to behave for self centered reasons (ie, "I won't hit the dog because I don't want a time out." vs "I won't hit the dog because she doesn't like it. I can tell her 'MOVE!' instead.")
Kid will probably still learn self discipline, but not necessarily as a result of punishment.
Punishment involves a parent vs. kid setup.

[abac]

Originally Posted by Daffodil

Discipline is getting your kids to act in the ways you want them to.

I respectfully disagree. Getting your children to do what you want is something completely different than discipline. I've had people tell me I don't discipline my ds because I don't make him do what I want, and that couldn't be further from the ttruth. Discipline in our house means lots of discussion, but the goal is to help everyone get along and get what they need, not to make my ds do what I want.

Originally Posted by elizawill

now, i do use some coercion though, which is frowned upon here but i'm very comfortable with my parenting choice. my children have mealtime ...and bedtime ...and teeth brushing time... and bath time ...and homeschool time, etc. i don't mind telling them "this is what we are doing right now" - and they understand it's not negotiable. i try to give them choices with each transition (what subject do you want to do first / what should we make for dinner? would you like to help me cook? etc) and i also give them a 15 minute notice or so before each transition. i really need a schedule to keep me sane though, as it keeps me from screaming my head off or losing my mind.

Again, having these expectations of your children, having bedtimes and mealtimes, etc., has nothing to do with discipline. Discipline is guidance, not saying, "You have to do x."

OP, you might want to check out the forum guidelines for a good def. of gentle discipline

[Daffodil]

Originally Posted by abac

I respectfully disagree. Getting your children to do what you want is something completely different than discipline. I've had people tell me I don't discipline my ds because I don't make him do what I want, and that couldn't be further from the ttruth. Discipline in our house means lots of discussion, but the goal is to help everyone get along and get what they need.

Well, I think when most people use the word "discipline" they are basically talking about how they get their kids to act or not act in certain ways. (I said "to act in the ways you want them to," not "to do what you want" because I'm not necessarily talking about obedience, which may or may not be a goal of discipline.)

Discipline is whatever you do that keeps your kids from just doing whatever they want, no matter how much it might annoy or hurt someone else. In some households, that means setting up reward and punishment systems; in others, it just means discussion and parents setting good examples.

[abac]

Originally Posted by Daffodil

Well, I think when most people use the word "discipline" they are basically talking about how they get their kids to act or not act in certain ways. (I said "to act in the ways you want them to," not "to do what you want" because I'm not necessarily talking about obedience, which may or may not be a goal of discipline.)

Discipline is whatever you do that keeps your kids from just doing whatever they want, no matter how much it might annoy or hurt someone else. In some households, that means setting up reward and punishment systems; in others, it just means discussion and parents setting good examples.

My mistake about the bolded part. I understand what you're saying.