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I'm feeling like an AP failure  

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Okay, I dunno if this is the way I'm doing it, or just her age or what, but I feel like either I've failed at AP or that AP has failed me. Not sure which.

When Anna, my 3.5 yr old, was born, I was vaguely aware of AP, but I wasn't really in the culture. I was working half days as a teacher, and I went back to work when she was about six weeks old, so she was in a (wonderful, home) day care. (With only one other child.) I got pregnant again when she was seven months, and I started leaving her at day care longer so I could go home and nap. I tried to breastfeed, but she had pretty significant oral motor problems after a short NICU stay (that unfortunately had involved bottles), so I ep'd for her. I didn't even know there was a term for what I was doing, just that I pumped all her milk for her. I only did it for six months, but still. But bc of the way I pumped, it worked best for me to have a couple really long pumping sessions instead of many shorter ones. I have a huge storage capacity, and after 15 minutes I would just be getting started. So I moved gradually to two hour and a half or two hour pumping sessions a day. But these took time, so Dad took over bedtime while I pumped. I quit (gradually) when she became more active and I couldn't really get in a morning session and then I got pregnant. We coslept till about 10 months, and then she got more active and nobody was sleeping terribly well, so she moved into a crib and eventually into a different room, because we didn't want to be dealing with two babies waking up in the middle of the night. I parented her in a somewhat gentle way, but nothing I really wasn't educated. Even after Catherine was born and I learned more about AP, I was so consumed with APing the baby that I never converted to as attachment and gentle oriented style as I probably should have. But Anna is extremely healthy, generally pretty well behaved, has always gone to bed very easily, and is very friendly, social, extroverted, happy. (Some definite sensory issues, but she's had those from the beginning.)

Catherine, on the other hand, has been pretty AP'd since birth. Breastfed, coslept, whole deal. She is constantly sick with something or other, and .... I hesitate to say this, and I say it in the kindest, most loving way possible, but.... she's kind of a brat. Maybe it's just being two. But she bites, pulls hair, to be funny. She is extremely jealous of her sister getting any attention and screams for milk, won't share my lap. She's much more introverted than her sister (which is totally okay), but she doesn't really like other children very much. Going to bed is a HUGE struggle, and frequently I can't get her to go to sleep until well after my husband has gone to bed. One am is not unusual. I get no time to myself, because if I get up after nursing her to sleep, she wakes up and screams. Separations are very hard for her. She constantly asks, "You're not going to leave me? I come with you?" I mean, it's not like I leave her very often. I do occassionally go to the grocery store while she stays at home with Dad. But she seems so insecure and afraid of being abandoned. I try to be responsive to her needs, while balancing giving her sister SOME attention. But why does she seem so insecure? And why is she sick so often? Grrr.....What have I done wrong?
post #2 of 21
You mention that your youngest doesn't go to bed well, and the 1am time you describe sounds waaay late for her age. I wonder if much of her "bratty" attitude and behaviors are related to a serious need for more sleep?
post #3 of 21
Thread Starter 
Oh, undoubtedly she needs more sleep. But I don't know how to get her to get it, you know? I can spend hours and hours earlier in the evening trying to get her to sleep and fail utterly. After many, many, many nights of five hour marathons, we just gave up and pretty much let her go until she collapses, pretty much when I go to bed. She does sleep until 9:30 or 10:30 in the morning so it's not as bad as it could be, and usually she naps for 2 or three hours during the day, but it's still not ideal. I have no idea how to get her to sleep, short of crying it out, and I really don't think that would work either.
post #4 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terabith View Post
I have no idea how to get her to sleep, short of crying it out, and I really don't think that would work either.
What exactly have you tried? It's barely possible there might be SOMETHING that you haven't tried that would do the trick.
post #5 of 21
Thread Starter 
establishing a routine (bath, jammies, teeth, books, nurse, sleep...hah)
rocking
vigorous exercise during the day
shorter/ longer/ no naps
earlier/ later bedtime
nursing to sleep
driving in the car
walking in teh stroller
eating turkey before bed
melatonin
calms forte
benadryl :
getting up earlier/ later in the morning
cosleeping
sleeping with mama in guest room
sleeping in crib (ha)
sleeping on mattress next to our bed (ha)
tried to create a comfort item (who needs one when one has mom)
epsom salt baths
lullabies
white noise
massage
joint compressions
heavy blankets
light blankets
different (and no) kinds of sleep clothes
Daddy doing bedtime (ha ha ha ha ha....that one resulted in HOURS of screaming)
rhythmic patting

I'm sure there were a few more. I am definitely open to suggestions!
post #6 of 21
I don't think you've done anything wrong, and I don't think Catherine is harder because she was AP'd more. If anything, her behavior is probably easier than it would be if she hadn't been AP'd as much... take all the issues she has now, and add alot more anger and aggression from less-well-met needs. She's a different child with a different sensory/nervous system is all. Maybe some unidentified health needs as well.

The getting sick often, difficulty sleeping, and increased anxiety/aggression might indicate allergies or food sensitivities.
post #7 of 21
You have done nothing wrong. It sounds like a personality thing. I amone of four. #4 was like this. I thought my mother was going to loose it. She really got depressed. Ms didn't sleep at night or during the day. she was horrible. So guess what they did with her. They bought me a double bed and put her in with me. Mind you I am seven years older than her. But at 18 months guess who finally slept through the night 11pm-7am. #4!!! Is this an option for you? Or even room sharing. My DP's called it the girls sleepover.
post #8 of 21
Jessica, she actually sounds a lot like Rachel! I just chalked it up to personality type. She was 4.5 before she'd sleep in her own room MOST of the night. Now, at almost 6, she still ends up in our bed some nights, but it's not like it was before. (For that matter, Max is often in bed w/ us, too, and he's 7.5 yrs old.)

Sounds like you've tried everything I've tried. The best thing was time. We even tried directing her back to bed every time she got out. That was REALLY hard. :

Have you tried getting her up at 7 AM every day, limit her nap to 2 hrs, and then try bed time again at 9, when it (finally!) gets dark? I'm not sure it would work because you've tried the earlier wake up, earlier bedtime, and no naps, but maybe forcing her internal clock to change times by doing all 3 things would be a good thing.
post #9 of 21
Thread Starter 
No, I probably should try consistently getting her up at somethign like 7 am. But I so hate mornings that I can't bring myself to do that on a regular basis. I think part of the problem is that the entire family is night owls. All of us have a hard time going to bed at night and like to sleep late in the mornings. And really, if she got enough sleep, that would be okay. Anna goes to bed around 10 to 11 and does fine. It's a late bedtime but she sleeps late and gets the amount of sleep she needs total. But Catherine just does not go to sleep.

I've tried the sibling bed briefly, but Catherine gets so silly that Anna then won't go to sleep. Anna has a hard time falling asleep, but she is willing to lie there until it happens.

I think there is likely some personality too. She reminds me a lot of myself. I was a horrific sleeper until around six or so. Similar personality as well. I think there very well may be some allergies. I took her to an allergist but he acted like there wasn't a way to test her unless I had some idea what she was allergic to to begin with? He tested her for like the most common things (eight substances i think) but that seemed really flimsy.

I'm just torn because I want to meet her needs, but I also am scared that I am somehow NOT meeting her needs. Is she insecure? Am I doing something to promote an anxious attachment? Am I encouraging her to be more dependent on me than she truly needs to be and stunting her emotional and social development? I just don't really know.
post #10 of 21
I'm so NOT a morning person, either. I love to sleep. LOVE it. My kids get up by 7:30 (8 if we're REALLY lucky) and I'm dozing in bed while they make themselves toast or something. :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terabith View Post
I'm just torn because I want to meet her needs, but I also am scared that I am somehow NOT meeting her needs. Is she insecure? Am I doing something to promote an anxious attachment? Am I encouraging her to be more dependent on me than she truly needs to be and stunting her emotional and social development? I just don't really know.
I think you're doing a fine job. I really think it's personality. Rachel is more independent than she was at 3, but she's always had this sort of cling-on syndrome with me which drives me BATTY at times, to be honest, but I know it's just part of who she is. I went through this guilt phase thinking, "OMG, I was so depressed and didn't want a daughter because I didn't want a relationship w/ my dd like my mother had with me, yada yada yada, and now she knows all this and she's afraid I don't love her!" It was AWFUL. The self-imposed guilt trip was YEARS long!

When she was about 4 things halted. In a way,they got better sort of when I miscarried (2 yrs ago). I was just stuck in my own world and depressed more than I ever had been. I couldn't be bothered with anything except the most basic functioning, so I became mentally detached but was still going through the motions of what she was requiring of me.

We moved about 10 mos later (to here) and life could resume for me. THAT is when REAL changes started being made and could be seen. Now she's still attached, but has managed to also be independent and grow up and become her own person.

I don't know if it was due to our life struggles as a family or her personality or what, but we're ok now. It just took time.
post #11 of 21
I only have one dd, so of course whenever she hit a rough spot, I (and all my family mambers: ) assumed it was something *I* did or didn't do. I swore up and down I was just trying to respond to her, and not actively trying to create a monster! But of course the reason why she wouldn't sleep was because she was in the bed, was nursed on cue, ect. That's what everyone said anyway. Then my dh's cousin had her 5th and 6th children. She has been very AP with all her children from the get go. Has co-slept, bf'd on cue, ect. The first 4, at a year wean easily from the family bed, the breast ect. The 5th? No way. She nursed until mama got pregnant again and had to wean (she has a few miscarriage scares). And she is still in the family bed, along with her newborn sister. Both the 5th and 6th children have been HIGH NEEDS, not sleeping well, nusing very often, and now the 2 year old is going through things that none of her other kids went through. Now my cousin is THE most patient, laid back person in the world. I look up to her so much, she is who I want to be like.: She has called me (we live in different states) 4-5 times in a month asking what is going on with her newborn. She said when she first saw me with dd at that age (2-3 months) she couldn't believe that nursing her would not calm her down for long. Or that NO ONE could hold her without her freaking out. Now her littlest one is like that too and she doesn't know what to make of it. She's called ME for advice, which I find so odd, since I look up to her for so much!
All this to say that even with *6* children, all parented the same way, you get different personality types. I never would have pictured my cousin freaking out and not knowing what to do. I never would have though that at the 5th and 6th kid, you would go through something you didn't go through with your first 4! Of course the huge difference between us is that she knows kids are different, she knows this too shall pass, and she is sure and confident in her parenting, and it is rare for her to question what she is doing. Me on the other hand, I questioned everything I was doing. I believed people when they told me *I* was at fault. I thought I was failing my child because she was miserable, I was miserable, and I couldn't fix it. I suffered ppd and ppp for almost a year, and am just now (2.5 years later) getting over ppd almost completely.
Your daughters have different personalities, different traits. It's ok, and you are not doing anything wrong or failing her. How could responding to her needs be failing her? You are doing the very best for her. You are a great mama for going with your instincts, for finding a nurturing way to parent your children. Your first child was easier. Your second child is more complex. Keep on responding to her needs. Take good care of yourself, take breaks when you need them. And ask here regarding specific issues that you are having. The ladies (and men!) here are truly wonderful and will offer lots of suggestions and advice. HTH
post #12 of 21
She's sick more often because she's got a big sister to bring all those choice germs home to her, and because she's in daycare.

She's different because she's just different. You can't change temperement! Hell, you should see what people with one high needs and one laid back twin ask themselves!
post #13 of 21
You've done nothing wrong. You just have a high-needs toddler who gets sick a lot. She has a different temperment than her sister because she's a different person, not because of anything you did or didn't do.
post #14 of 21
Quote:
And why is she sick so often?
allergies and
shes not sleeping enough(lack of sleep=lack of immune system)
post #15 of 21
Sounds like she has a very different personality from your other daughter. I know how easy it is to think you have done something wrong, but you haven't! She is just different. I was my parent's first child and my brother right after me was the exact opposite of me in so many ways when we were little. I was so happy to sit and play quietly with one toy for hours. He was constantly on the move, getting into things, etc. I always listened to my parents, he constantly would do what he knew he shouldn't as soon as they turned their attention away for an instant. I was very healthy, he was sick a lot. In your case it may be at least partially not enough sleep, but there could be physical differences too. My brother had asthma, allergies and generally wasn't as "hardy" as I was.

Hopefully if she does have allergies, you can figure out what they are. Did the allergist give you ideas on how to figure out what she is allergic to? If he didn't, maybe your regular doctor can help?
post #16 of 21
It's not the AP that's making her that way. If you were parenting "mainstream" and she was hard to get to sleep and sick all the time, would you think it was your parenting? People tend only to blame the "outlier" parenting methods when something doesn't go well. It's the old "one bad homeschooled kid spoils the batch" mentality (aka, public schooled kids are allowed to be mediocre but any subpar homeschooled kid just shows how bad homeschooling really is...urgh.)

I think some kids are just more anxious than others. My DDs are very different, and they were both APed (coslept, extended BFing, baby wearing, etc). I was anxious and had attachment problems as a kid. I was parented very un-AP, and the attachment problems never resolved. Maybe AP wouldn't have "cured" me 100%, but it at least would have helped, IMHO.

It does sound like there is something underlying it all. Maybe go out of the mainstream and talk to a chiropractor or acupuncturist (or both).
post #17 of 21
Well, another personal story to tell. My mother told me that she figured she was a great mom and had figured it all out bc #2 was such an easy baby and toddler (I am the eldest and I was not).

But low and behold #3 was colicky and always sick (even today) and #4 never slept through the night. My parents CIO so my youngest sister just lay there. She slept maybe 7 hours a day, tops. I am also 7 years older than my youngest sister and I remember rubbing her back to help her get to sleep when she was 1yr old (this could take up to an hour, as an 8yo I timed it). She just required a lot of attention. Same with #3, who basically demanded via colic that my parents hold and rock her.

Guess who was THE WORST teenager/young adult (towards my mum that is)?

Yes, #2.

Even today my mum and her don't have a great relationship.


The most emotionally secure and successful? The least problem as a teenager/young adult?
#4


The most social? Extremely close to my Mum?
#3


Same parents. Different personalities and attachments.
post #18 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe View Post
She's sick more often because she's got a big sister to bring all those choice germs home to her, and because she's in daycare

She does have a big sister, but neither one of them are in day care. Interestingly, today I had to go to a dr appointment to which I absolutely could not take the kids. (A parent conference with Anna's developmental pediatrician....whoo hoo, no autism!) I left them with an AP stay at home dad who is a good friend of ours. He has a 22 month old dd. But while we know Andy well, the kids don't know him terribly well. They've certainly met him, but haven't spent that much time with him, ya know? I thought Catherine would be very anxious, esp since Dad left on Friday to go to VA with some of the cats, and things are very unsettled right now due to upcoming mood. She started off anxious, but she was playing with Anna and when I said I was leaving, she just waved and said, "Bye!" She did great while I was gone, didn't use her pacifier, etc. Had tons and tons of fun. But as soon as I got back, she wanted to nurse and was kinda clingy again. So maybe she needs more opportunities to be away from me in a supportive environment? I dunno. I hadn't ever thought preschool would be good for her yet, but now I'm wondering if she's more independent and develops confidence away from me. I dunno.

The allergist didnt' have any great idea for identifying allergies. I wasn't super impressed with him, actually.

Interestingly, since my dh left, I've been concentrating on doing lots of fun things and going to some of our favorite places and taking pictures of our favorite places in San Antonio. We've been missing naps pretty frequently. But she's been going to bed much, much easier. Still not getting the sheer number of hours she probably needs, but there has been less sleep related stress at our house. How much sleep DO two yr olds need anyway? She's been averaging about eleven hours total.
post #19 of 21
Max dropped his naps around 2-2.5 yrs old. (Right when I finally got him & Rachel on the same routine. ) Maybe it's the age? They're still tired but not as much during the day and then it messes up their nights?
post #20 of 21
My two-year-old sleeps about 10 hrs a night and then naps anywhere from 20 minutes to 2 hours during the day. (It doesn't seem to matter when she goes to sleep - she wakes up at 3:30 pm!) DH slings her to sleep every night - when he is away and I have to nurse her to sleep, it takes 4EVAH. I'm just happy she's still teeny so she isn't killing his back every night, or we'd have to come up with some other solution....

Glad the sleeping is going better. I just saw an old friend of mine who has 2 teenagers and really, it made the sleep problems and the nursing at night seem downright primitive-simple! a little perspective was good for me.
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