My Mother!!!!!!

[TryingMyBest]

I am sure that not EVERY mother agrees with the circumcision decisions we make...however, it would certainly be easier if she did.

SO, my mother was adamant about my son being circumcised since the other two are. She gave me the "it's better now", "he will feel different", and the "he won't remember" speeches. There was no reasoning with her. I finally just dismissed our conversations and we made our decision.

My DS3's birth is only a couple of weeks behind us. My mother calls me today and says "Pleeeeeeease tell me that that baby has been circumcised..." I know that I didn't handle my response well at all. Especially since reading Quirky's message on how to respond to comments...

I was livid..furious even that she asked that way. Nonchalantly imposing her opinion...yet again. I lost my temper and yelled at her...telling her it was none of her business and that I thought it was inappropriate to even ask...etc. Needless to say, she was very offended. I had to apologize and let her know that it was just a sensitive topic for me right now. Obviously, I was not prepared for the conversation.

Anyhow, this woman is set in her ways...and typically makes decision in a very black and white manner..."what is best...vs...what is not" etc. I will need to make a HEAVY hitting impact on her as quickly as possible. I think that I am going to print off a one pager and put it in her mailbox and see how that goes.

Any ideas on material or approach?

[Papai]

Honestly, I think your first response was best.

It's simply none of her business.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Well you know your mother best. Is she more into statistics or is she the type that prefers medical literature?

If you feel that you can get thru to her go for it but if she is the type that no matter what you say she wont be swayed then just dont allow discussion on the subject.

My mom gave me such a hard time while I was pg about circ. She had reason tho. My oldest brother was blessed to be left intact and bfed because the dr who delivered him didnt believe in circ and was pro bfing. This was back in 1962. So he was lucky in that respect. But at 3yo he was having trouble. From what my mom described to me he had a simple bacterial infection that cleared up on oral abx.

But they still schedualed the circ for the next week because the dr he had then was stupid he told my mom that it would just keep coming back if they didnt circ My mom of course didnt know any better back then and still to this day she sees dr's as all knowing and above mistakes and has paid the price many times for that. My brother went in with a then healthy foreskin was circed a week later and suffered badly. This of course caused my mom to circ my younger brother right away because it would get infected if you didnt.

It took me months talking to her and explaining that anything that went wrong could be treated with abx and proper treatment which dosnt include a circ.

After almost 3yrs I have finally gotten thru to her and she now knows that circ is a bad thing. But boy was it ruff going at first.

I sat down with her and for every question she had I gave her an answer. All the myths and common misconception about the foreskin we talked about. It takes time. But had she not been willing to learn the topic would not be something we would ever discuss again.

If she wouldnt listen just tell her you already made 2 mistakes with your first 2 sons and you were not about to make the same mistake with the 3rd.

Sorry that got so long winded But if she is a loving and caring person she will come around just be patient with her.

[fruitful womb]

I'd say, "Please keep your nose out of our ds future sex life!" How is it "Its Better Now"? Does she buy into the HIV crap?

Edited to add: I actually agree with MCatLvrMom2A&X. She is right that you do need love in your message in order to win her over to see your perspective. Given time, she'll understand. Just see it as an opportunity to educate her anytime she brings it up.

[tiffer23]

DH's mom was like that pre-baby (even had FIL call and try to talk DH into it GRR!), but since he was born she's never once mentioned it. We were VERY lucky, I guess.

I'm with you, it's none of her business and it was rude to even ask, ESPECIALLY seeing as you've been so adamantly against it for this child.

[eepster]

IMO in this situation you need to close the communication door for now. You are tired, vulnerable, and hormonal, b/c you just had a new baby. You have only just found out about circ recently yourself so you haven't had any time to become well versed (also some of the most persuasive stuff is not something you should look at while you are still all hormonal; like the pictures of complications.)

Offer to talk to her about it in a few months when the baby is sleeping through the night. If she continues to press the point just end the conversation however you need to.

I think sending her a one page thing is a very good idea. What type of evidence tends to sway her? nocirc.org has some pamphaletes you can print. If those aren't right for her we can find something more tailored to her way of thinking.

[TryingMyBest]

You are all right. I guess it's a mixed bag. My mother knows how emotional of a topic this is for us...but she is an emotionally reticient individual that is detached from her maternal instincts...honestly. She can almost admit this to anyone that asks. My mother didn't raise her children for the most part...her mother did so she has been trying to make a "comeback" and be involved in the last 8 or so years. While she is trying...she is riddled with guilt over the past and honestly...just...lacking when it comes to any sort of primal instincts with her children. Very ...clinical...but has no interest to dive into the clinical side, make sense? She told me when I was pregnant with DS1 not to breastfeed because it would ruin my breasts and she just didn't understand how my sister or I either one would want to do that. A couple of other words come to mind...but I really am not trying to insult her...they could truthfully be used constructively...like self centric and selfish...ID...you know?

Her major argument yesterday was that she worries about this babies future because I had a "nut" moment. So, she says two things there...1) she knows how impactful the decision was and 2) she thinks that it was a "nut" moment...meaning one without cause other than hormones and my "senses" should "come back" anyday now. She sees no validity in leaving a child intact. Grrrrrrrrrr.........

Eepster--you are also right..timing is of the essence here and I am still hormonal...to say I am not...is a lie. It IS still a sensitive topic...a decision that is not begging for debate, rather support and understanding.

Thanks guys!

[njeb]

Speaking as a member of the older generation (I'm 52 years old), I think you did the right thing! Sometimes we mothers can overstep our boundaries, and when that happens, we need to be put in our place, sometimes forcefully. :
It's going to take a while for her to come around, but hopefully, she will. It's hard when something you've believed for 52 years is proven to be false!

[Mommiska]

I just wanted to say 'hang in there'.

My mom didn't give us a hard time for not circing ds (when she noticed after he was born, I launched into my full spiel about how horrible circumcision is - and she knows what I'm like about research, so she just nodded and didnt' say anything!).

But I've wanted her to really understand (ds is 4 years old now). For the first 3 years, she'd just shut down whenever I brought circ up.

But my brother and his wife had a little boy earlier this year, and they left him intact (after I sent a bunch of info/videos/etc). And my Mom was just as excited as I was...

After all these years, she finally 'got it'. It just took awhile (and the fact that she has 2 circumcised sons made it harder to get her head around, you know? She would never knowing hurt any of her children).

Our situation sounds different from yours, but sometimes this is a topic that just needs to 'sink in' with people for awhile before they understand...

[titania8]

i don't have any brilliant words or advice, but i just wanted to say how happy i am that you are coming back here for support. i know this is still a sensitive area for you. you are so strong to have stood up to your mother and told her to mind her business. good for you mama.

[Rhiannon77]

I'd make her watch a video.

My mom is kind of like that, too. Only she's just plain ignorant about most things, so I just add this to the list. She said that Nathaniel would be mad at us later. Well, maybe he will be. Either way, I know that what we chose was right. The only member of my family that showed any support whatsoever was my grandfather. He actually asked me, unsolicited, if we circumcised the baby. I was very surprised and told him that no, we did not. He said that was good, that he'd recently read that people are starting to not do it and that there is no reason to circ. He said that when they were having kids, they pretty much made you. I inferred from our conversation that he was in tact. So, just 2 generations later, we've come full circle. None of his children, though, had boys.

[Microsoap]

You can apologize for losing your temper with her, but MOST CERTAINLY WILL NOT apologize for educating yourself and doing what is best for your child. Repeating past mistakes is unacceptable! Knowing better and still doing it so other wronged sons won't feel bad is even MORE unacceptable! You're accepting responsibilities for past mistakes and avoiding repeating it. You should be commended on your bravery and most of all, your compassion and intelligence for this (leaving newborn son intact).

If your mom can't see that as logical, then I'd suggest to you you suggest to her she learns more about WHY you did what you did. If she's not willing (which I think would happen), then tell her if she chooses to remain ignorant (maybe "uneducated" is a lighter word to use), then she can hold her tongue.

At any cost, I'd avoid leaving her to care for your son when you aren't around since she is 100% totally ignorant on intact care and this could lead to damage to your perfect son!

I think you are incredible mother and am SURE you have what it takes to not only stand up to ignorance and the attempt to keep the damaging "status quo" going, but try to shatter the myths for the sake of the innocent.

[Lauren82]

I think that educating your mother will probably be the best bet. I've had to do this with my own mother and grandmother with all sorts of stuff including circ, BFing, etc... At first she may not want to hear any of it. I've had the best luck with reminding my mother and grandmother that we are always learning of new and better things for our children and the things that THEY were taught to be right may have been proven to be a load of crap by this generation. My grandmother still truly believed that a woman's breastmilk magically stopped being nutritious once a babe was about 3 months old!

One thing I want to bring up is that you need to educate your mother about proper intact penis care. You would not want her mistakenly retracting your son because she might believe he needs to be cleaned down there all the time.

[mommy2caroline]

I think that it is probably hardest for older mothers to accept these kinds of things when they did the same for all their children. For instance, my mother tried to bf me but got bad advice to quit when she had mastitis at 2 months pp. However, she went on to bf each of my 3 younger brothers successfully for about a year each. They had the first two boys circ'd, but when a doctor told her the third didn't really need it done, she didn't have it done. She very easily could accept that bfing is important and that circing is no longer seen as being necessary. I think that possibly for moms who had several boys and circ'd them all, or who didn't succeed at bfing any of her children, it could be harder to accept. Now, my MIL had trouble bfing both her kids, and they had dh circ'd as an infant... but she still supports bfing and doesn't take issue with the fact that circ has been shown to be unnecessary. I'm really glad that's the case with her... I could see it being different, since she didn't end with a non-circ'd, bf baby the way my mother did. I guess I just got lucky!

[Lady Madonna]

TryingMyBest, I really understand where you're coming from. I posted in your other thread (and elsewhere) about the crap my mother gave me about circumcision, during both pregnancies and after DS was born.

You have to decide what's important to you - explaining your decision by educating your mother, or shutting down the argument entirely.

My mother is a health care professional. And yet, there was no educating her. She was stuck on the fact that her father "had" to be circumcised at 65 (yeah, whatever ... he was also obese, diabetic, and overall in failing health) and it was just so awful for him. Blah blah blah. I could have continued my attempts to explain the difference to her, but decided it wasn't worth my energy.

So I told her, in no uncertain terms, that the matter was no longer up for discussion. Period. That we were NOT cutting off part of our son's penis, and that was that. I refused to discuss it any more. The ONLY time we had to address it after that was the first time she changed DS, when I was right there and made sure that she knew NOT to retract his foreskin (since she went to nursing school back when those lucky enough to be left intact were forcibly retracted), and she was good about that. We've not brought it up again.

Seriously, you can just refuse to go there with anyone. If your mother or anyone else brings it up, you can say "not open for discussion" and then move on to another subject - my favorite way is to use a non-sequiter like "how about those Mariners?" or "pass the salad, please."

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO JUSTIFY YOUR PARENTING DECISIONS TO YOUR PARENTS. That was a hard lesson for me to learn, but it's been very powerful for me since I learned it. As my husband says, our parents had their chance to screw up their own children - it's our turn now.

Hang in there, mama, you're doing great.