Computer Suggestions?

[LankyLizards]

I'm thinking that it's time for me to get a computer of some sort. I, somehow, made it through my A.A. degree using computers owned by my parents, but now I'm starting a much more demanding program (and taking one online class and one computer class) and my father's computer (I live with him) isn't up to the challenge, it seems. It's seven years old and he seems to have downloaded some incompatible programs because it is not letting me do lots of basic things. I suppose it could be repaired, but as a full-time student and someone looking to get my own, fabulous, low-income housing ( ) I think that this would be good thing to get. Does that sound super un-frugal of me? I will have to use student loans. However, it is an investment in my education isn't it? And, if I get a laptop, which is what I'm thinking, I can use free internet service at the library, coffee shops, school, etc. Yeah, I'm pretty much fully convinced that this is a good idea. So...anyone have any suggestions on what is the best deal, cause I'm clueless. I looked around online a bit, but have no idea what are good (meaning work well and aren't ridiculously over-priced) brands. TIA!

[ShaggyDaddy]

Because of my work and lifestyle, a computer is not any more optional than electricity is. Here are computer buying tips I give all my friends/family when they get to this point:

1) Do not buy a computer from a sales person. Period. For example if you buy a Dell, Buy it from Dell.com, NOT over the phone or at a kiosk.

2) Do not buy a computer today. Computers ALWAYS change prices dramatically. It is a really bad idea (frugally) to buy a computer the same day you decide you need one. Watch Dell's deals, watch Adverts for frys, compusa, office depot, office max, costco, etc etc.

3) Figure out what you want and need LONG before you start shopping.

4) You probably will not be able to find a computer that is too "slow" to do what you want. In other words 99% of computer users should shop on PRICE and quality alone, not hardware stats. Are you looking to play high end games? Are you looking to do real time analysis of chemicals or light processing? Probably not, so ANY COMERCIALLY AVAILABLE COMPUTER will suit your needs. The sales person will ask if you want to take digital photos or whatever, cause that requires this much more expensive computer, etc etc this is not true... the truth is if you want to browse the internet and email pictures to the family, and play movies, and do homework... any system will do great.

So are you looking for a laptop? A Desktop? Do you need a monitor? A Printer? you need to have this decided before you can even go in the right direction.

Dell almost always has some system on deep special, this is typically the route I go for desktops.

For Laptops I watch the ads for all of the big office supply stores and wait till I see a laptop go on special. I bought my laptop 1.2 years ago for $500 brand new from office depot, after watching for about a month for deals. It still does everything I need, and I am a software developer with fairly complex computer needs.

My desktop was about $300 from Dell, and it is a very sweet machine (no monitor, I used one I already had), again I watched deals for a few weeks before I pounced.

As for brands, I usually stick to Dell, Toshiba(laptops) and Compaq/HP(desktops, not laptops)

I usually avoid eMachines/Gateway, but I am not above buying them for a REALLY good deal.

[LankyLizards]

Wow, I'm in a huge rush right now, but thank you so much! That was so thorough and helpful!

[sonrisaa29]

I believe that Dell and Apple both offer student discounts on their computers through their websites. I'd buy a mac in a minute if I had the money for it. I use a mac at work and in the past two years, its crashed once. I cannot say the same thing with my PC sadly.

One thing with macs is to me they're kind of like a Honda, they'll hold their resale value better than a PC. Plus I think they're just a general all round better computer. That said it will be more money up front. What is your price range?

I also think hard drive space especially on a laptop is extremely important. Are you just using the computer for papers, or also to keep pictures, movies etc on as well?

[ShaggyDaddy]

I am not trying to be trite however I should preface this by saying, there is an embittered, decades long battle between Mac lovers and Geeks, and I am one of the geeks.

Mac specializes in making fashion and lifestyle accessories, not computers, not phones, not music players... Fashion Accessories. Unfortunatly high heals are more expensive than work boots, no matter how much prettier they are. Most work boots will wear out and break long before high heels will as well, and for the same reason as the whole Mac vs PC thing. A PC can do a lot, it can use 99.9% of software created (good AND bad), it can view all websites, it can use almost any accessory created for computers. A Mac has a much smaller window of usefulness and compatibility, therefore it also carries less risk. You can't catch a virus if you can't leave the attractivly designed white plastic bubble.

Walk into a Mac store and then tell me that it is not about fashion. It is a very calculated "Simulated Geek Chic", a very clean, angular modernist art gallery, not a technology store... Their nifty hand held cash registers are PCs by the way

I am not comparing hardware quality or user interface design or anything like that.
I am only comparing on 2 things: Price and functionality. Macs are freaking expensive. Macs do less than PCs. Software is much cheaper for PCs, Hardware is much cheaper for PCs. PC components are easier to replace and upgrade.

I am not saying you CAN'T do the stuff you want to on a Mac. I am only saying you CAN do it on a PC, for half the price.

I will say the exception to the rule is graphic design and a few other art related activities. They don't specifically exclude the PC, but the culture and software often tend to favor the Mac.

[mightymoo]

ShaggyDaddy has good advice, I just wanted to add that you can get laptops pretty cheap now a days, just keep in mind that a $400 laptop may not last terribly long... they are made to hit a price point and I've just heard of tons of problems with the super low end ones. I'm not saying you need to spend a ton of money on a laptop, just make sure to read customer reviews carefully and know what you are getting into. www.cnet.com is a great site which reviews computers independently.

I agree that you are going to be able to do what you want on any of the various levels of hardware, so I would focus on the cheapest one you feel will last and has reviewed well.

I also agree with ShaggyDaddy about Apple/Mac - Apple's philosophy has always been to create proprietary hardware, whereas the PC market is an open standard - anyone can create the pieces for a PC. This means that through competition you are getting a better deal, whereas with an apple you are getting what apple will sell it for, as they are the only ones who sell Apple's. There also is significantly less software availabe for the mac, including shareware and box software. Again, competition drives the price of PC software down.

I had a boyfriend in college who was a Mac guy (we were Comp Sci majors). Even this guy who loved macs had to get a special card for his Mac so that it would act like a PC because he couldn't do everything he wanted on his Mac. I've never had a problem finding a PC version of whatever I wanted.

[koalabob]

Originally Posted by mightymoo

I also agree with ShaggyDaddy about Apple/Mac - Apple's philosophy has always been to create proprietary hardware, whereas the PC market is an open standard - anyone can create the pieces for a PC. This means that through competition you are getting a better deal, whereas with an apple you are getting what apple will sell it for, as they are the only ones who sell Apple's. There also is significantly less software availabe for the mac, including shareware and box software. Again, competition drives the price of PC software down.

No, no, no! I consider the Microsoft with Windows to be the Wal-Mart of the computer industry. Microsoft has basically set up a monopoly in bundling the latest version of Windows with PCs. It basically TELLS the computer world that any software must be compatable with the latest version of Windows.

Historically, the drop menu system was a Mac innovation that was native to its system. Windows was a copycat program built on top of the DOS system that was the PC system of the day.

The reason that Macs are more expensive and software is sparse is because Microsoft has employed so many unethical business practices to drive its competition out of business.

The Mac operating system used to be based on an obscure language, but within the last few years has gone to a UNIX based system. What this means that there is a lot of FREEWARE that Macs will run. I don't use Microsoft Office. I use a program called OpenOffice that does almost the same thing. The interface doesn't look as slick, but I also didn't pay $600 for the program; I got it free.

I could go on. I just felt the alternate viewpoint needed to be expressed in this thread.

Bobbie

[melissel]

Koalabob, I think I you : : :

ShaggyDaddy does have a (price) point. However, you cannot beat Macs for reliability, fashion accessories though they may be. My old iBook took every beating I could lay on it for eight years straight--telecommuting, international travel, massive amounts of file-sharing, toddlerhood, full-on Coke spills, and more. It took a second toddler and a huge cup of light/sweet coffee to finally do it in, and even given that, it still works with an external keyboard.

On the flip side, my DH has basically gone through a PC laptop a year (mostly Dells) for the past six years. It's been horrible, and we will never, ever buy Dell again. (Actually, I refused to do so after my first purchasing and customer service experiences with them years ago. Top-rated customer service, my arse.) PCs are far, far more prone to viruses and the like--in fact, my super-careful DH is in the process of dealing with one on his desktop right now. And, well, if it's not a virus, it's just one more case of "another Dell bites the dust."

I also don't really consider the comparison to be between work boots and high heels. I think of it more as a comparison between, say, my Gap khakis and the ones I bought at Target. I have Gap khakis that have lasted since I was in college. I also have Target khakis that, after two washings, have shrunk in all the wrong directions, ride up into my , and now show two inches of ankle. They were nice for a few wearings, but now they're essentially useless to me. (This is a true story, by the way.)

I have also encountered one single site where I cannot use my Mac: My oldest DD can't access the video content on Noggin.com via anything but very specific versions of Windows and IE. Awwww...darn! The newest version of the Windows OS, on the other hand, has just oh-so-many documented snafus. If anything, I'd say Macs are not high heels; rather, they're more akin to, say, Birkenstocks here. (Does this discussion remind anyone else of: "Is someone supposed to be a DOG in this scenario?" "Yes." "Who is the dog?" "You are." "I am. I am the dog!!!" )

I vote Mac if you can possibly afford it. IMO, you get what you pay for.

[CeciMami]

:

Get a Mac...more money up front, less money down the road cause you won't have to replace it every other year!

[velochic]

OP you've gotten some really great advice here. Let us know what you end up with. (Shaggy Daddy, great buying tips... the only one I would add is that if you're not computer savvy, you *should* go to a salesperson who knows what they are talking about, figure out everything you need, waste hours of their time, and then go order it online. )

I have to agree with Koalabob and Melissel on this one in the computer wars.

My dh is computer science professor. His area of research is computer vision/augmented reality. We have PCs now at home (one laptop for him, one for me, one for dd, and a desktop for mom), but he still uses his Mac or Sun Sparc at the office for his research. PCs can't handle the video and image processing required for his geometry- and calculus- based images (too graphics intensive). The graphics industry doesn't use PCs much because PCs have never been able to catch up with MAC in this area. Yeah, if you're just going to watch streaming video, write papers, and chat online, a PC is fine. MACs are far more sophisticated than PCs and the "fashion accessories" are doing nothing more than funding the "real" research going on in the background. That money you spent on your IPOD you carry around today will enable you(okay, probably your kids or grandkids as the research isn't moving *that* fast) to one day, walk into a grocery store, put on a cool pair of sun glasses, which will augment what you are seeing on the shelves... you'll not just see the label and price without picking up the product, but you'll also get recipe ideas for it, other products needed for the recipes, possible allergens, price per unit, where it was manufactured, expiry date, even things like if you've bought it before and if your family liked it last time. Gotta get the money for that kind of research somewhere. Thank you to all the tweens that insist on getting a new i-phone!!

I think the MAC/PC wars will go on forever. It's true that PCs are more practical for the layperson, but MAC is really just years ahead of PC when it comes to R&D. It's almost like comparing Apples to Oranges (pun intended ).

[LankyLizards]

Thank you everyone so much! There has been amazingly good advice in here! I'm really not completely sure what exactly I'm going to get, but I know it will be a laptop. I need it for papers, research (for papers..), basic e-mailing, some online classes, maybe some picture storing, but no a lot. I am not a graphic designer or in any field that would require complex design programs. That said, I love how reliable Macs sound. That's really what tugs me towards them. My mother has gone through three computers in the span of just a couple of years (desktops, though) and I really don't want to go through that. Honestly, though, my biggest consideration is probably price. However, since I will be using student loans to purchase it, I would like to still be able to use the computer when I finally have the money to pay it off (when I finish school in about 1 yr and 1/2). So, I am going to do something that my grandma always made me do as a kid....make a good, old-fashioned pro and con list. Thanks again, and I'll definitely update when I finally decide.

[mightymoo]

Originally Posted by koalabob

No, no, no! I consider the Microsoft with Windows to be the Wal-Mart of the computer industry. Microsoft has basically set up a monopoly in bundling the latest version of Windows with PCs. It basically TELLS the computer world that any software must be compatable with the latest version of Windows.

Historically, the drop menu system was a Mac innovation that was native to its system. Windows was a copycat program built on top of the DOS system that was the PC system of the day.

The reason that Macs are more expensive and software is sparse is because Microsoft has employed so many unethical business practices to drive its competition out of business.

The Mac operating system used to be based on an obscure language, but within the last few years has gone to a UNIX based system. What this means that there is a lot of FREEWARE that Macs will run. I don't use Microsoft Office. I use a program called OpenOffice that does almost the same thing. The interface doesn't look as slick, but I also didn't pay $600 for the program; I got it free.

I could go on. I just felt the alternate viewpoint needed to be expressed in this thread.

Bobbie

Actually the whole concept for the original mac GUI was stolen from Xerox PARC. Steve Jobs was given a tour and he realized gow great the idea was and stole it. Microsoft is like any corporation, it maximizes profit. I expect nothing less from any company, MS just happens to be good at it. Apple isn't any different - they just didn't win which is why they are the underdog. Do you think Apple would be benevolent if they had won out years ago and Macs were what everyone buys? No way, they only do what they are doing becuase they hope to make more money at it.

[ShaggyDaddy]

Originally Posted by koalabob

I use a program called OpenOffice that does almost the same thing. The interface doesn't look as slick, but I also didn't pay $600 for the program; I got it free.

Open office runs on PCs too, even ones not running windows.

As for the whole evil empire thing...
Microsoft is worth about 400 billion
Apple is worth about 300 billion

would you like half a dozen eggs or six eggs?

It's fun to root for the underdog, but it is not like Macs are built in a garage by a hippy anymore. They are built by a fierce company who dominates the style and fashion portion of the electronics world, and who basically decides all policies for online music today.

[polyhymnia]

I love Macs, but I was raised on PCs and I just can't convince myself to switch over.

If you treat your computer nicely and run antivirus software and don't drop it and store the power cord properly (for a laptop), etc - it should last at least 2-3 years. I have a desktop I purchased in 2000 - I no longer use it daily but I did for four years and now I have it as a backup and do still use it approx. weekly. My previous laptop I had for 3 years and only replaced because i wanted to upgrade, my current one is 2 years old and still going strong. I personally LOATHE Dell... their "great customer service" is really lousy in my experience, and I've had Dells in every office I've ever worked in, and they are awful. A friend of mine had to send her desktop back four times to get the video card replaced - why they couldn't do it right in the first place is beyond me but also it took them over a month to fix it each time she sent it in. That meant 5 months she was without a computer whilst in college

Personally I have really enjoyed my professional HP laptop. HP and Compaq merged and I dislike Compaq and love HP (my 7 year old desktop is an HP), some of their laptops are more HP-like and some are more Compaq-like and you want to try to avoid anything that was a Compaq. Shop around and see what you can find - You *should* be able to get a good, mid-range laptop for around $500 in the current back-to-school sales. Maybe they'll throw in a printer for free too

[sonrisaa29]

I'd check out apples website and see what they are offering in the way of student deals.

[Stace]

Personally, I'd look into an HP. I believe they're running some good deals for students right now, and they've got stellar customer service. I have a Dell laptop; I've had it for nearly 5 years with minimal problems, but their customer service leaves something to be desired. As far as desktops are concerned, I now prefer to build my own, but the first one I purchased was an HP and though it can no longer keep up with the programs I run, it's still ticking and I've had NO problems with it whatsoever, other than my mom wiping out the OS when I let her borrow it. But that right there is a testament to HP's stellar customer service - when I called to order new recovery discs so I could reformat it, I was informed that they no longer have the discs I'd need available, but they were willing to send me a brand new PC for free. They really strive to keep their customers happy.

[polyhymnia]

One thing to consider for a student, is whether the uni you are attending can support both Mac and PC, or just one. A lot of campuses are one way or another and you won't necessarily be able to use the campus network to print, or email files to professors, etc without the right platform.

I love HP's customer service - I have had to take my laptop in once for service (under warranty), there is a repairshop next to my office and I dropped it off on a Wednesday afternoon and picked it up on Friday morning. Not bad if you ask me! Dells are fine until something goes wrong and then you are up a creek without a paddle...

[jocelyndale]

Whatever brand you buy, if you buy a laptop, pay for the extended warranty. For a Mac, this is called AppleCare and it's worth every penny.

I love our iBooks, partly because I can get fast door-to-door service when something goes wrong. My husband is the old-time Apple fanatic in the family--I converted several years ago after my last clone died a horrible death. He converted after Amiga went under a long time ago.

[koalabob]

Originally Posted by mightymoo

Actually the whole concept for the original mac GUI was stolen from Xerox PARC. Steve Jobs was given a tour and he realized gow great the idea was and stole it. Microsoft is like any corporation, it maximizes profit. I expect nothing less from any company, MS just happens to be good at it. Apple isn't any different - they just didn't win which is why they are the underdog. Do you think Apple would be benevolent if they had won out years ago and Macs were what everyone buys? No way, they only do what they are doing becuase they hope to make more money at it.

Interesting. I didn't know that about the Xerox PARC. I just remember when Macs first came out and having to get a program to run Windows in order to run software our company thought was necessary to have. I thought it was a an awfully convoluted system.

You're right. Business is cutthroat. I don't know if Apple would have been any more ethical if they had won the major share of the computing business. Before Mac changed their OS to be UNIX based, I had a PC with Linux OS. That's really more grassroots. Software is often written as Shareware and is usually free. Unfortunately, one has to know a LOT about how the computer is organized, and some about programming. That eliminates 99% of computer users.

Metaphorically, it's like going to Wal-Mart where things are standardized, you know where everything is located, and you know what to expect--versus going to a whole bunch of unfamiliar Mom-and-Pops where you don't know what to expect, you can find really good stuff, but are equally likely to find junk plus you have to wade through a whole bunch of what you don't need in order to find what you want.

It's only later that you find out, not only are the business practices that Wal Mart uses unethical, but you as a consumer have been psychoanalyzed and manipulated into buying, buying, buying. Most Mom-and-Pops depend on their product to sell--they don't know how to make shopping so easy and pleasant that shopping at their store becomes a national pasttime.

Bobbie

[koalabob]

Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy

Open office runs on PCs too, even ones not running windows.

You're right. But most people don't think about looking for free software. It's out there. (I'm not talking about bootlegged software. That's unethical. I'm talking about shareware.) Businesses almost always use purchased (and licensed) software. I understand that that's necessary for one business to seamlessly be able to talk to another. But the home user doesn't always have to subscribe to business practices.

Also, as a student, there are some great student discounts on software. Often the only difference between the student version and the "full" version is that the software is labeled "Student Edition."

Bobbie