That one Law and Order

[treqi]

There was a Law and Order re-run about FGM and how a father murdered an uncle who had paid for a doctor to come to the country to "fix" his niece. I know its an extreme and its a TV show but is that how you guys view RIC/MGM. I know mamas here tend to be gentle but everybody has their limits. I just want to know cause untill I saw the circ vid I wouldn't have thought twice about circ and in having a daughter I could really relate to the L&O but RIC is so common I still can't understand the degree of your outrage at it.

[titania8]

i think part of the outrage comes from the fact that it is so common. people think its no big deal to just cut off healthy, functional body parts because 'everybody does it', with no thought about why, or how or even considering that the foreskin is there for a reason.

i have not seen the episode you are referring to. but i don't think i would justify killing anyone over a circ. i might be on board for strapping them down and cutting on their genitals though.

[Claire and Boys]

Just because it is common in the USA does not make it right. FGM is common in Africa and people are outraged at that yet have their own baby boys mutilated.

Double standards.

[Fi.]

The forced, cosmetic removal of a very functional part of someone else's genitals is something to get angry over. Not to mention that doctors manually stimulate the baby to get an erection (I'm pretty sure that borders on molestation considering the reason isn't medical), and they get no anesthesia.

Sure some men are happy - but only because they don't know any other way. Honestly if most of them knew the difference they'd probably be a lot angrier. The adult circumcision satisfaction rate is actually quite low for a procedure they elected for willingly and with informed consent.

How about the men who aren't happy though? Or the ones who have problems. What do you tell them? Sorry, your mom wanted your c*** to look good in her eyes so too bad so sad? My partner has what's considered a mild side effect - he outgrew his circumcision and they were so tight that part of his penis went completely numb (could prick him with a pin and he didn't feel it - yes we tested this) and a few times the skin SPLIT. From an ERECTION. How is that okay? Why should he have to wear a pretty expensive device on his penis just to attempt to regrow 1/4 of what he's lost because his mom thought he should be sexy in HER eyes? I don't think he should personally.

Women in Egypt and the likes are completely happy having their and their daughters clitoral hoods removed because it's cleaner, healthier, and they like the way it looks. Yet Americans get outraged at this idea - they ignore the fact it they could actually LIKE their cultural tradition and call it savage, call it mutilation (but get offended when Europeans say the same thing about male circumcision). Aside from the underlying racism, it's a huge double standard.

[glongley]

Originally Posted by treqi

I just want to know cause untill I saw the circ vid I wouldn't have thought twice about circ... RIC is so common I still can't understand the degree of your outrage at it.

What's really great is that you ARE thinking twice about circumcision, and your ARE asking questions about it! That's way ahead of where most parents are. The more you learn about the harms and risks of circumcision, and the value of the foreskin itself, the more outrageous it seems that most people still "never think twice" about subjecting their sons to it and their doctors sure don't go out of their way to give them any information.

The fact that it's "so common" doesn't justify it, it just tends to blind people to the inhumanity of the act. Yes, female circumcision and male circumcision are different in certain ways, but in their essence they are the same: unnecessary amputation of normal, healthy, sexual tissue from a non-consenting person - neither is justifiable either medically or ethically.

The outrage you are detecting here is for so many different reasons: the harms and losses, the violation of a innocent non-consenting person, the culturally-maintained ignorance, the lack of accountability by the medical profession, the double standard between protecting female children and not male children.

Keep reading on this board, follow some of the links, and you'll start to see what we're talking about.

Here's a good place to start:
http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...cumcision.html

Gillian