Raising your spirited child... - Page 5

[cmoma]

Meg: Hooray for the happy day!!

I just put myself on the list for the Feingold Cookbook, I want to see how that might change things. Today has been a much nicer day Kepping an eye on his food. Are blueberries salicylated? Anyway so far so good I am even feeling good about him actually getting a nap in today!! I checked out the feingold site and he seems to fall into lots of the catagories for symptoms. Hmmmm...

[imbarefoot]

Originally Posted by cmoma

At our house there is no hfcs, caffeine aftificial colorings but now that you mention it she does give him yogurt that has hfcs I made a comment about it but I have not made her change it because well when I made the comment about it not being good for you she just gave me a face She seems to do well when I am there about not giving him junk but I know she does not feed him the things that I feed at home well she does but they aret the things I hve stopped buying. Like processed meats with nitrates and mac and cheese. Hmmmm I am going to have to check into this. Maybe he's more sensitive than I thought.

Thanks for bringing that up. IF it is the case it is going to be VERY difficult to get her on board with this. But either she will or he won't be going over...

I think that's a very reasonable request. If she can't abide by your requests for him to eat healthy and safe foods, then you're right, he shouldn't go over there. You know, it didn't go over well with my IL's either at first, but my husband was firm but gentle about it. "It's our child and we don't want to put junk into her. Will are happy to provide you with food when she's in your care, but either way, she cannot have these things." Also, you may want to check that yogurt out that your mom gives him. Unorganic yogurts are notorious for having Red 40 in them if they are red or purple. Also blue ones usually have the blue dye and the yellow ones usually have the yellow dyes. I like Brown Cow yogurt. It's not organic but they use honey for a sweetner, rather than sugar (like the Yobaby uses). And it's amazing how many products they put HFCS in! Graham crackers, cereal, breads, and more! So he def could have consumed some if your mother was feeding him those sorts of things. Children can be very sensitive to those things, I know mine is! So it's not too unusual.

Either way, I hope you are able to sort this out! Hugs!

[imbarefoot]

Originally Posted by Meg_s

I'm just so happy I had to post, since it related to my spirited son. Normally I take him to a day care like thing for 2-3 hours in the morning, though it's kind of a pain since we don't have a car and it involves an hour of commuting on the bike altogether, and the littlest one doesn't like the trailer. My husband was away on business for the 2nd half of last week, and then is gone again for the first half of this week, and i just haven' tbothered to take him, too tired, too much hassle, which means I've controlled his food 100%. They are not supposed to give him anything that is not on the allowed list, but I suspect they do because of his behaviour, and because of them telling my husband "well we try not to give him raisins, but he loves them so much.. and he is doing so much better so just a few doesn't seem to be hurting" well it was hurting. Anyway, since he has been home and had time to be "desalicylated" (although I have given him peeled apple, and gummy bears but no red ones, and small amounts of carrot in his beef stew) he has been such an incredibly wonderful little guy to be around. Even when he is hungry, even when he is exhausted, he is just AWESOME. We had so many incidents this morning which would normally have been 30-90 minute insane ordeals but they were mere blips, he got upset and then quickly got over it. I love having him so content.. this totally makes me want to keep him home for good now. DH and I are falling all over ourselves loving him because he is sweet and OMG affectionate. He's always coming up to me and give me big hugs and kisses, and when I put him to bed he rubs my arm and pats my back and keeps kissing my face and hugging me.

That's so heartwarming to hear. I hope your family is able to make this work so you can stay home with him. Sounds like that's what's best.

[imbarefoot]

Originally Posted by Inanna_Mama

I'm so sorry you had such a difficult day. My DS feeds off my emotions, too. I try to take heart in trusting that it's a sign that he is truly attached, which means we have the potential to be a team - even if most days don't feel like it.

How wonderful to have a day like Meg's to hope for and look forward to!

:



imbarefoot and sage

Thanks for sharing your list, IMBF. I really need to get on that before I take DS to see my family again at Thanksgiving. It will really be ugly if I'm not prepared this time.





Sage, DS is also very loud, bright, strong, and excitable with a clear idea of the way things should be. DH is very patient, gentle, even-keeled and soft spoken. While I'm not as Zen as DH, I'm not off the charts the other direction, either.

I am just a beginner at this parenting thing, but already I am overwhelmed by questions much like those you are asking here. While I want to take responsibility for helping DS become a compassionate, thoughtful, well-adjusted human being; I feel like I also need to accept his unique personality and find ways to help him develop into his own person, which means first letting go of a lot of questions that suggest I've done something wrong.

Of course, I can't say that I'm anywhere near being *able* to do this, but it's something I want to start working on. I bet there are other Mamas here who feel similarly.

I know what you mean. Hugs! We are all on the same journey as you and all doing the best that we can. Keep your head up!

I think that by encouraging and guiding your children to be compassionate, thoughtful and well-adjusted human beings, we aren't not letting them be who they naturally are. I think possessing those traits are important and unfortunately, a lot of children these days lack that. So it's important to me to raise my child with those values, along with values that line up within my faith. At the same time, I think fostering your child's unique personality is just as important. I don't think it's about changing them. But trying to make them more well rounded individuals. Encouraging them to be kind, but also be themselves.

I definitely think you should let go of those questions that make you feel as if you've done something wrong. You are a wonderful mother. I can tell that just by you being right here on this thread, looking for answers, looking for guidance, and admitting that you aren't perfect. None of us are. I think what's important is continuing to learn ourselves and just doing the best that we can. And keeping in mind that if we make a mistake, we need to take responsibility for it (to yourself and to your child) and the move on, without holding major guilt.

Have you looked into parenting classes in your area? I have heard that in some bigger cities (and who knows, possibly in some smaller cities depending on your area) that classes are held for children like ours, spirited children. Classes that encourage gentle and non violent discipline. That's something that I myself want to look into. Because I feel like the more I put myself in a position to learn something, the better a parent I will become. I may take some things and leave others, but I feel that I could benefit from a professional that believes in the same kind of discipline that I do.

Anyway, I hope everyone had a relaxed night tonight. It's been a great night for me because my husband took our daughter to his mothers house for the entire day! 9 hours to myself! My house is actually clean!

[Meg_s]

Unfortunately feingold is outdated, a lot of the foods contain salicylates. Check out the "failsafe" diet. Blackberries have lots :

[cmoma]

So my sweet boy took a 3 hr nap yesterday: first I was like : then I was like doing this : : :

We has such a great day yesterday. He ate at home all day yesterday and while I am not yet foloowing the diet he did not ingest any chem's but he did have some blueberries I think....?

TODAY was another story. My nana was in town so she wanted to take the kids and I out for B-fast. DS had french toast (1 slice) with syrup (couple tbsp) and sausages (2 links). Well I wasn't even thinking about it, We came home and he got engaged in his tinker toys trying to buile a race car that was shown on the pamphlet. Well he just started losing it!!! To the same intensity that it was the other night. Just unable to settle down he would listen to me, he wouldn't listent himself. He was going "wacky" I all of a sudden flashed to his breakfast and all the crap he probably just ingested. The syrup alone was probably enough to set him off since it of course was not real.. Anyway I am still not sure if the chems are what are triggering him but after today I definitely going to give it a go. Ohh should also say that he has been doing really well since that episode this morning. Very easy to manage! I love it when he is easy to manage!!

Meg : Are you saying a lot of the foods he reccomends have salysilates? In the cookbook I just got from the library he does state that all berries have them, an are not to be eaten. (this would include blackberries)

[kayt707]

Hi asll I just joined the site for this thread actually. My son is what you would called spirited. He fits so much that I have found on the subject. I am one of those moms that everyone has advice for...and I keep telling them Ive tried it. But no one seems to think I have or I havent been doing it right
Ive also been asked if he has ADD but he just didnt seem to fit that criteria right either. I hope I can pick up a few tricks from you all to make both his and my life a little easier and calmer.

[Meg_s]

Originally Posted by cmoma

Meg : Are you saying a lot of the foods he reccomends have salysilates? In the cookbook I just got from the library he does state that all berries have them, an are not to be eaten. (this would include blackberries)

I am not 100 certain, I just remember reading that in the past the feingold diet was successful for some, and not others, and the reason was that the food list was not eliminating all of the salicylates, so people who were sensitive enough were not getting the change they needed.

Syrup and sausages : my son loves sausages, but we're lucky enough to have an organic butcher who makes them for us with absolutely no additives of any kind, and seasoned with just salt. I believe pure maple syrup is ok! My son eats french toast for breakfast, usually 1 or 2 eggs, white bread with no [reservatives or additives or dairy (we're in europe so easy to find) saturated to the fullest with the eggs, and cooked in butter oil that I've made in advance to get rid of the casein. I sprinkle a little sugar on it. The bread and sugar makes me cringe, but he EATS it and is getting important fat and protein.

I also make "apple cake" which is eggs and just a little flour in the blender, then all in the frying pan with plenty of paper thin sliced apple. To make a thick cake just make plenty of the pancake type flats and pile them on top of each other and slice.

For lunch and dinner we do a lot of crock pot dishes that are delicious for all of us, and safe for him to eat. eg: stew beef, carrots, leek, celeriac, stewed for about 24 hours. I add the butter oil and some peeled boiled white potato to his since it's pretty low fat. Sweet and sour pork is also delicious. Simmer pork belly (fresh side) for a long time with some vinegar water and a little sugar. Before serving, thicken with a little tapioca starch, and for the grownups I add chopped scallion.

[cmoma]

kayt707: HI and welcome!

So I found this link: http://eklhad.net/foods/foods9.html

Which talks about the difference between the feingold and the failsafe. Basically the Feingold's salicylates list is based upon information from parents saying this food (ie: grapes) makes my son off the wall. As opposed to the Failsafe which tested the foods for salicylates and came up with many more foods that contain them. So I guess trying feingold first to see if you child is reacting to the more common foods would be a good place to start them moving to failsafe if you are not seeing any improvements. Anyway just thought I would share.

I also wanted to add the DH is thankfully on board with this whole food change thing. Which is great but having him backing me when I have to tell the mil is really great! She's going to be watching him Friday. I'm just going to bring food for him....

How would you tell her what we are doing. I want it to make sense to her when I say it and sometimes I get a little worked up telling her things like this. Any suggestions??

[kayt707]

A litle more on my son.
Full of energy. He moves non stop. Even trying to get him to sleep is so difficult. He will keep moving either his arms or legs just to stop falling asleep. we are still laying down with him because it is the only way we can keep in in bed. we've tried just laying him down but he just keeps getting up. He will do this for hours.

He is so outgoing and has no fear of things. He has been speech delayed. He talks all the time but it seems to be in his own language. He has gotten good about asking for things...over and over again, but trying to have a conversation with him is really difficult. I feel like theres something wrong that Im doing but dont know what else to do.

Hes very independent. He just does so many things for himself. Which is good in one way but also dangerous at times. Trying to get him to understand that he cant do those things is impossible. At preschool if the door to the classroom is locked he will run through the office and kitchen to the back door of the classroom to let himself in. Great problem solving but obviously dangerous.

Sometimes it feels like you just cant get his attention because he is so intent on what he is doing.

My aunt refers to him as a force of nature.

when he gets frustrated over something though we have complete melt down. To the extent that there is no way to figure out what is wrong because he cant stop his crying to tell you anything. I think that he ends up upset not because of what ever happened but because hes upset.

Sometimes I just feel like Im at my wits end. Im been told to be stricter, to try all these different techniques, which I have but they either dont work or make it worse. Ive been asked if he has ADD, I have to admit Ive worried about that myself...but he just doesn't fit the profile for it. I knew that he wasnt just your average active toddler though when the other parents at pre-school would look at me and say wow you really have your hands full.

I want to go find the book you all are talking about because Im hoping that it will give me some ideas that will help both of us.

[Meg_s]

Kayt707 I just wanted to say how alike our guys sound.
The way it works for me is that when DS is salicylated he is impossible. IMPOSSIBLE. Everything you mentioned - getting caught in those repetitive cycles, getting frustrated literally all of the time, and just crying so hard that he can't even say what he wants anymore, and he can't stop crying.. the not going to sleep, ADD wondering, even the speech delay. I don't think ds is delayed, but he seems to have less words (in a single language, he's bilingual) than some other kids his age that I know. But once he is free of those chemicals he changes, he is just as energetic and willful - but he's able to understand more it seems, and is also willing to compromise. Like, first we do t his and THEN you can get what you were asking for. He's willing to be distracted sometimes, and he he seems to be content inside, rather than full of frustration and even rage. It\s hard to explain the difference, it's just that my TRUE son is really fun to be around (though exhausting and extremely willful) and my son on salicylates is awful. Makes me question why I became a mother. I can't even tell you how many times I've thrown my hands up and said to dh "He's insane."

[cmoma]

I can't even tell you how many times I've thrown my hands up and said to dh "He's insane."




Except we use "CRAZY" : LOL!

well we are doing our best limiting foods and so far so good There are still things in the house he can't have so when he requests them I have just been reminding him that we think he has an allergy to those foods or rather whats in them. He seems ok so far with that answer not questioning it too much yet. Though he has gotten a bit upset about not being able to eat something (i forget?) But since he isn't eating the chems he can "handle" it. YAY!!!!

[VijayOwens]

Originally Posted by kayt707

A litle more on my son.
Full of energy. He moves non stop. Even trying to get him to sleep is so difficult. He will keep moving either his arms or legs just to stop falling asleep. we are still laying down with him because it is the only way we can keep in in bed. we've tried just laying him down but he just keeps getting up. He will do this for hours.

He is so outgoing and has no fear of things. He has been speech delayed. He talks all the time but it seems to be in his own language. He has gotten good about asking for things...over and over again, but trying to have a conversation with him is really difficult. I feel like theres something wrong that Im doing but dont know what else to do.

Hes very independent. He just does so many things for himself. Which is good in one way but also dangerous at times. Sometimes it feels like you just cant get his attention because he is so intent on what he is doing.

My aunt refers to him as a force of nature.

Sometimes I just feel like Im at my wits end. Im been told to be stricter, to try all these different techniques, which I have but they either dont work or make it worse. Ive been asked if he has ADD, I have to admit Ive worried about that myself...but he just doesn't fit the profile for it. I knew that he wasnt just your average active toddler though when the other parents at pre-school would look at me and say wow you really have your hands full.

This describes my 28 m.o. dd to a T. She is so willful. So big (36lbs) and strong. I've given up any attempts to guide her. She just does her own thing and look out if you get in her way. She is so smart and yet can't figure out basic things like asking for something instead of screaming and throwing herself backwards onto the floor. I am at the end of my rope. I am yelling at her every day and those who know me know that I am a very gentle mama. She is so draining and pushes my buttons like crazy.

Are you all saying that just changing her diet could help her moods? Right now we eat pretty naturally, but other than avoiding HFCS and artificial dyes (but we're not super vigilant about it) we aren't on any special plan. She loves cheese, apples, pasta, chicken, peanut butter, any kind of cookies. Nuts, yogurt, oven fries . . . any red flags? Soy milk, apple juice (diluted) pumpkin bread . . .

Help! I can't take her anywhere and we're still unhappy when we stay home. She barely sleeps (maybe 7 or 8 hours a night and no nap) and never holds still, not even when it's the end of the day and I know she's exhausted and I put on a calm video. She is still doing headstands and jumping on the couch.

-Vijay

[kayt707]

Originally Posted by VijayOwens

This describes my 28 m.o. dd to a T. She is so willful. So big (36lbs) and strong. I've given up any attempts to guide her. She just does her own thing and look out if you get in her way. She is so smart and yet can't figure out basic things like asking for something instead of screaming and throwing herself backwards onto the floor. I am at the end of my rope. I am yelling at her every day and those who know me know that I am a very gentle mama. She is so draining and pushes my buttons like crazy.

Are you all saying that just changing her diet could help her moods? Right now we eat pretty naturally, but other than avoiding HFCS and artificial dyes (but we're not super vigilant about it) we aren't on any special plan. She loves cheese, apples, pasta, chicken, peanut butter, any kind of cookies. Nuts, yogurt, oven fries . . . any red flags? Soy milk, apple juice (diluted) pumpkin bread . . .

Help! I can't take her anywhere and we're still unhappy when we stay home. She barely sleeps (maybe 7 or 8 hours a night and no nap) and never holds still, not even when it's the end of the day and I know she's exhausted and I put on a calm video. She is still doing headstands and jumping on the couch.

-Vijay

I so understand. I cant tell you all what a difference just knowing that im not alone is. The preschool that he goes to is great, they are very good at guiding the children( instead of just corraling them or ordering them), it is a playbased cirriculum, and all the snacks are organic. But even there they dont seem to understand some of the trials. DS has found out that if he goes through the office , through the Kitchen he can reach the other rooms. So he does. I had signed him in and was trying to talk to the teacher about something. He ran again. He had been out in the play yard with the assistant. The director came and told me that we have to be very strict about it with him because its dangerous. I agree, I try to talk to him and and his immediate response is no and laughs. She came down hard on me and I left feeling like the worst parent in the world. I know that he can be difficult but Deep inside I know there isnt a medical condition or just bad kid. If anything I feel like some how Ive done the wrong things...even though Ive tried it all. I bought the book on raising a spirited child and hope that will give me some clues to help us communicate and work together instead of combatting each other.

[MyBaby'sSmile]

Originally Posted by VijayOwens

but other than avoiding HFCS and artificial dyes (but we're not super vigilant about it) we aren't on any special plan. She loves cheese, apples, pasta, chicken, peanut butter, any kind of cookies. Nuts, yogurt, oven fries . . . any red flags? Soy milk, apple juice (diluted) pumpkin bread . . .

The first thing that I would do is get rid of the artificial dyes. You would be amazed at how this affects so many children. From your list, dairy affects many many children. There are some great substitutes though some of them have their own problems like salicalytes and vit. a. We are using goat milk without problem. Goat cheese is yummyand my son likes goat yogurt! But avoid the orange cheddar as it would have art. dyes. Apples make my son very hyper, as do mangos, bananas and grapes/raisins. Gluten products are also a trigger for many kids.

Quote
Full of energy. He moves non stop. Even trying to get him to sleep is so difficult. He will keep moving either his arms or legs just to stop falling asleep. we are still laying down with him because it is the only way we can keep in in bed. we've tried just laying him down but he just keeps getting up. He will do this for hours.

It used to take me two hours every night to get my son to sleep. We used to drive him in the car every night for an hour when we couldn't take it any mkore. Then I read about some techniques used with children with Sensory Integration Disorder. I didn't think my son had that but his resistance to sleep was similar. So the first thing I did was to take my big birthing ball and put him on it with me sitting behind him on the bed. I'd bounce him up and down on the ball while singing songs. Then I would put him on his belly and roll him forward and back, again while singing. Thirdly, I would lay him on his belly and roll the ball up and down his body while singing the ABC's. Then I put him into his bed and did a joint compression technique. I gently squeezed foot to knee on each leg and leg to thigh, then thighs together. Then hand to elbow. Elbow to shoulder and then shoulders together. We counted to 10 each time. After a week of doing this I saw amazing changes and he was then able to settle down and go to sleep on his own.

One more suggestion are a series of books by Maureen Garth. Here is one
http://www.amazon.com/Starbright-Med...2755152&sr=1-1 We really liked these.

HTH

[kayt707]

Originally Posted by MyBaby'sSmile

The first thing that I would do is get rid of the artificial dyes. You would be amazed at how this affects so many children. From your list, dairy affects many many children. There are some great substitutes though some of them have their own problems like salicalytes and vit. a. We are using goat milk without problem. Goat cheese is yummyand my son likes goat yogurt! But avoid the orange cheddar as it would have art. dyes. Apples make my son very hyper, as do mangos, bananas and grapes/raisins. Gluten products are also a trigger for many kids.

Quote
Full of energy. He moves non stop. Even trying to get him to sleep is so difficult. He will keep moving either his arms or legs just to stop falling asleep. we are still laying down with him because it is the only way we can keep in in bed. we've tried just laying him down but he just keeps getting up. He will do this for hours.

It used to take me two hours every night to get my son to sleep. We used to drive him in the car every night for an hour when we couldn't take it any mkore. Then I read about some techniques used with children with Sensory Integration Disorder. I didn't think my son had that but his resistance to sleep was similar. So the first thing I did was to take my big birthing ball and put him on it with me sitting behind him on the bed. I'd bounce him up and down on the ball while singing songs. Then I would put him on his belly and roll him forward and back, again while singing. Thirdly, I would lay him on his belly and roll the ball up and down his body while singing the ABC's. Then I put him into his bed and did a joint compression technique. I gently squeezed foot to knee on each leg and leg to thigh, then thighs together. Then hand to elbow. Elbow to shoulder and then shoulders together. We counted to 10 each time. After a week of doing this I saw amazing changes and he was then able to settle down and go to sleep on his own.

One more suggestion are a series of books by Maureen Garth. Here is one
http://www.amazon.com/Starbright-Med...2755152&sr=1-1 We really liked these.

HTH

Thanks Ill give that a try. I have been having a bit more success with massaging the muscles in his legs, arms and back. It seems to help him relax better. Im still staying until he falls asleep though otherwise he just jolts himself back up but the 1-2 hour struggles are now 20 mins or under. That is saving a little sanity. The funny thing with him is that he will fight it so hard for so long and then the instant he stops he falls into a sound sleep. Today was a much better day. I dont know if some of it is that im having a better understanding and dealing with it differently or just one of those lucky days but we havent had a day like this in a long time. It was by no means perfect but so much better. Thanks for all the support!

[sassyaztec]

Okay mommas, jumping in....

DS is 3.5 and spirited. But after reading other posts, I guess we actually have it easy?? Although my DH and friends would disagree We are pretty fortunate in that our preschool is a coop and I LOOOOVE his teachers. It's playbased and his past teacher and I are now friends and his current teacher is GREAT with him and is my source of encouragement. She reminds me "Progress is what we are looking for". I'm our class mom so I am pretty involved with what is going on.

Anyway, sleep is what gets most affected for him and then WATCH OUT! But for the most part when I get him down for the night he is good and he takes a 2-3 hr nap daily, well 99% of the time. He didn't start sleeping through the night until last year when his sister was born-thankfully. but it was a looooong process with No Cry as my bible. Now it still takes a while for him to wind down, but it's fine and I like the quiet time with him reading and rocking/singing and cuddling. But I also realize that he NEEDS his sleep, as I do, unfortunately.

I've been reading Raising your spirit child and really like it. I've tried a bunch of ideas and have seen a difference, I just need to remember to do it more often. He likes to argue and hates anything new- he really freaks out. His energy level is super high and is a tactile learner and into everything. He really wears me out and I become a screamer totally bums me out.

We are semi healthy, organic, natural etc. for some things. I really don't know where to start. I know preservatives and dyes. anyone have a cheat sheet? I just feel overwhelmed with trying to find info and we are in a sleep situation right now-- he's waking up at 3/4 a.m. every morning and fighting naps (which isn't normal). so I am beat, have little down time and DH is really busy with work right now. Actually got to finally post because DD is still asleep at 9 a.m. totally unheard of for my son. 7 is late for him but I hear her cooing, so I'm am out of here.

Thanks mommas for sharing and reminding me I am not a horrible mom and not alone! I love this site!

[Spritesmom]

Mama's - we are desperate!! DD's (7) tantrums are getting out of our control. We cannot let her "safely" have them - she turns into an animal and I say that with the greatest of love for her - she is unintelligible so fast now that we don't have a chance of figuring out what she wants/needs.: She is not violent towards us or herself but she is heading in that direction. What "professional" do we take her to? And how do I make sure that "they" don't break her spirit? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

[MyBaby'sSmile]

Hugs Spritesmom, I wish I had an answer for you.

Does anyone else have trouble getting their spirited child to eat? It can take ds ages to actually eat anything. He plays, daydreams etc. It isn't that he doesn't like the food. I don't think he has ever actually refused to eat anything but turnip because of the taste. He just doesn't want to feed himself. If we want him to eat we end up feeding him. At 5.5! But if we don't do that he doesn't eat. Then he is hungry later. I don't want to start that practice. He does always have a bedtime snack but I don't want that to replace his supper.

Anyone else have food challenges?

[SusannahM]

Krista (mybaby'ssmile), we have that issue. Phoenix likes to eat slowly, play at eating, "savor" her desserts, etc. It's hard to get her to eat. I really don't think it has that much to do with being spirited, I've talked to many people who have this issue with their toddlers.

To be honest, to solve the problem (plus, there is the problem that her naps run 11:00 to about 2:00), we eat about 5 meals throughout the day now instead of 3, and all are healthy. Breakfast, lunch (really early, about 10:30), afternoon meal, dinner, before bed meal. DH and I actually like eating this way better (he works from home so eats all meals with us), too, so that's what works for all of us.