would you have a problem w/ this kindergarten entrance test? - Page 3

[lolalola]

Originally Posted by tboroson

For kindergarteners? Yes, I would. The theory of kindergarten is that they learn how to go to school, and how to get along with their peers. Kindergarten is not for tracking and labelling. It's too damn early for that.

Thank you.

[kennedy444]

An assesstment test like this wouldn't bother me in the least. These type of activities help a teacher to see where a child is in their growth. Not judgemental, just helpful. I think some type of testing would be standard in most schools.

When my dd1 was entering Kindergarten we looked into two different schools. Each one did their own type of little tests. NBD really.

[Aeress]

I agree, labeling isn't helpful at all. Unfortunately, the current movement in education is more accountability, so we will be seeing more assessment. Assessment in and of itself isn't necessarily bad, it is how it is used and what kind it is, that is concerning.

[IansMommy]

Originally Posted by tboroson

For kindergarteners? Yes, I would. The theory of kindergarten is that they learn how to go to school, and how to get along with their peers. Kindergarten is not for tracking and labelling. It's too damn early for that.

And I totally agree with you. Curriculum has been moved downward and some of the real meat and potatoes (how to go to school, getting along) of kindergarten are being glossed over. They are essential for success in school.

There are children, though, who have trouble attending to the "how to go to school" part (lining up, sharing, following directions--things necessary for a peaceful and functional classroom). Some of the assessment can detect or at least red flag issues that might interfere with this. Ongoing informal assessment along the way can help a student socially who will be labelled by their peers if they don't get help from a teacher and parents.

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by tboroson

For kindergarteners? Yes, I would. The theory of kindergarten is that they learn how to go to school, and how to get along with their peers. Kindergarten is not for tracking and labelling. It's too damn early for that.

In our district there is no labeling - actually no way for anyone to tell if a child is needing special assistance without knowledge that isn't readily available. We have 2 kindergarten sections at our school, regular kindergarten and ESL kindergarten. When the kids were tested those who the teacher felt needed extra time and attention were offered full day kindergarten with a lunch break in the cafeteria between sessions. There are also a few kids that were offered full day kindergarten for other completely separate reasons. Unless your child was in both sections the only way one would know that a child is in full day kindergarten is if the child or parent told you. If these children can be offered the extra bit of attention they need that will allow them to keep up with their classmates then obviously the evaluating process is working.

[Viola]

Originally Posted by tboroson

For kindergarteners? Yes, I would. The theory of kindergarten is that they learn how to go to school, and how to get along with their peers. Kindergarten is not for tracking and labelling. It's too damn early for that.

That's a good point, but I do think that people have different expectations of kindergarten, and many will have sent their children to preschool for a year or two beforehand anyway. With children with lots of different experiences coming together, it might be useful to try and get a sense of where the kids are on the scale of just learning how to get along with peers. My daughter's school actually asked questions about things like that (her playgroup or other childcare experiences, the ages of any siblings and so on).

[ThreeBeans]

Originally Posted by tboroson

For kindergarteners? Yes, I would. The theory of kindergarten is that they learn how to go to school, and how to get along with their peers. Kindergarten is not for tracking and labelling. It's too damn early for that.

Sorry, you're about a generation behind the times

Kindergarten is now academic. It's no longer 'practice' school. You're thinking of pre-school.

Edamommy, you are way overthinking this. This is one tool among many that they will use to teach children the best that they can. The kindergarten teacher is not out to get your neice. She's there to help her.

[ThreeBeans]

Also, if my children go into kindergarten academically advanced...say all ready reading and writing, no I absolutely wouldn't want them to be lumped in with their peers who need basic instruction in the alphabet. They'd be bored out of their skulls. I'm not penalizing my children out of a warped sense of non-judgementalism.

[lolalola]

I guess I must be a "generation behind the times", also.

Geesh, I always thought "kindergarten" was a place children went to play with other children. : Have I missed something new in child development? Don't they generally learn *how* to learn in kindergarten?

[ThreeBeans]

Originally Posted by lolalola

I guess I must be a "generation behind the times", also.

Geesh, I always thought "kindergarten" was a place children went to play with other children. : Have I missed something new in child development? Don't they generally learn *how* to learn in kindergarten?

No. Seriously.

Public School kindergarten is no longer what it was when we were kids. It is now an academic program. It's not playtime anymore.

If you're looking for whom to thank, you can start with NCLB. Lovely, eh?

[lolalola]

Seriously. I had no idea.

:

[oceanbaby]

Originally Posted by ThreeBeans

Also, if my children go into kindergarten academically advanced...say all ready reading and writing, no I absolutely wouldn't want them to be lumped in with their peers who need basic instruction in the alphabet. They'd be bored out of their skulls. I'm not penalizing my children out of a warped sense of non-judgementalism.

So what should we do with those poor 5yo souls who need basic instruction in the alphabet? Hmm, maybe a Remedial Alphabet corner would be appropriate, based on their test results of course - wouldn't want to drag down the obviously brighter children.

[SusanElizabeth]

Originally Posted by queencarr

The do the assessments here to help group kids for K. Our district also offers a transitional K class, for kids that are old enough for K, but not quite there developmentally. There is also a transitional first, for kids that were in transitional K, but also ones who went to regular K, but aren't quite ready for 1st gr. The idea is to allow them to mature and catch up to their peers by st or 2nd grade in a better environment for where they are at developmentally. Sometimes kids do a transitional K year, and then do regular K and tehn go from there. It is very flexible, and kid centered the way it works here. It is the parents choice, though. Kids that have trouble in a lot of the assessments are also offered a summer school type session the summer before, so the parents can see how they would do in a formal educational setting before deciding. Sometimes, itis just a matter of giving it to them. DS1 was coming out of the PPCD program (special needs preschool) and we used the summer school to transition him to K. He knew the skills from PPCD, but the extra structure was a good transition for him.

My kids were given Gesell Tests the summer before kindergarten and this is EXACTLY what the tests were used for. Kids that were "developmentally young" were advised to do a year of "developmental kindergarten" and a year of regular kindergarten (meaning two years of kindergarten.) Parents could refuse the recommendation but teachers made it known that they resented having kids in their class who they said, "shouldn't really be there."
My oldest was on the young end because of her birthday (but she made the district's cutoff date) and they told me she was "developmentally young" for kindergarten. (actually her skills were appropriate for her age.)

I resented these tests a great deal. My feeling was that it started school on a negative and argumentative note.

My daughters are teenagers now. The "developmentally young" daughter is in a very good college.

I still cringe at the thought of GESELL.

[Upside]

I remember doing the skip test in 1978 before I went to Kindergarten. I also had to walk up a mini set of stairs. I remember asking why I was walking up stairs and the teacher didn't tell me. I never did figure that out. Otherwise, I have no insight, just wanted to share my skipping story .

[a-sorta-fairytale]

Originally Posted by brendon

You know, the school could also ask parents for information about their child. Does your child skip? If not, what are they doing? How does your child hold a pencil, right hand/left hand?

The sad thing is many parents dont know and/or dont care. :
When i did a reading program with 1,2,3rd grades there were many kids in 1st grade who didnt RECOGNIZE their own name. Forget writing it. I had 3rd graders who could not read a word but the parents pushed for "social promotion" and now they are 4th graders who cannot read. I think if they are "caught" earlier and offered these programs they wont be high school kids who cannot read. I also had a few kids who just needed a tiny bit of help and then they were able to move right along into the pace of the regular class. Many were biligual and just not confident about their ability to read aloud in English. After only a few "tutoring" sessions it was realized that it was a confidence issue and not a learning issue at all.

Right now i work with a pre-k initiative program. It is free for kids who have never had preschool and is to help with kindy readiness. We have assessments that are done 4 times throughout the year to see where progress is beig made and also where there may be delays or problems. WE dont line the kids up and say "here kick this ball then hop on one foot!" Instead we keep notes on what we see throught the day and if we have trouble assessing a skill we will set up a full class activity so no one is singled out and "tested."

THe range of kids entering k is soooo huge. There are kids who dont recognize a single letter and kids who can read chapter books and kids all in between.

And sadly kindy isnt about play and lets learn about circle time anymore. Thanks to NCLB there is now NO OPTION of half day kindy here.
So all the kids are forced into full day school at 5.

This post is all over the place. I think i need a nap.

[ThreeBeans]

Originally Posted by oceanbaby

So what should we do with those poor 5yo souls who need basic instruction in the alphabet? Hmm, maybe a Remedial Alphabet corner would be appropriate, based on their test results of course - wouldn't want to drag down the obviously brighter children.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant!

ALL children have the right to appropriate instruction. Even, *gasp* the smart ones.

[a-sorta-fairytale]

Originally Posted by ThreeBeans

Yes, that's exactly what I meant!

ALL children have the right to appropriate instruction. Even, *gasp* the smart ones.

Yes, i was a *brat* until i was in advanced, gifted, and honors classes.

[queencarr]

Originally Posted by SusanElizabeth

My kids were given Gesell Tests the summer before kindergarten and this is EXACTLY what the tests were used for. Kids that were "developmentally young" were advised to do a year of "developmental kindergarten" and a year of regular kindergarten (meaning two years of kindergarten.) Parents could refuse the recommendation but teachers made it known that they resented having kids in their class who they said, "shouldn't really be there."
My oldest was on the young end because of her birthday (but she made the district's cutoff date) and they told me she was "developmentally young" for kindergarten. (actually her skills were appropriate for her age.)

I resented these tests a great deal. My feeling was that it started school on a negative and argumentative note.

My daughters are teenagers now. The "developmentally young" daughter is in a very good college.

I still cringe at the thought of GESELL.

I don't know what the formal name of the assessment was called that our district does, but they also do a parent questionaire along with it. Here, K is not legally required at all, and I have honestly never seen the attitudes you describe. While they emphasize academics, a good deal of the day is focused on learning to be at school and playing, and learning through play. DS1 had 2 30-45 minute recesses and PE. While there was a schedule, it was very free flowing. For example, if a child was still sleeping at the end of naptime, they let them sleep however long they needed, that kind of thing.

[IansMommy]

Originally Posted by SusanElizabeth

My kids were given Gesell Tests the summer before kindergarten and this is EXACTLY what the tests were used for. Kids that were "developmentally young" were advised to do a year of "developmental kindergarten" and a year of regular kindergarten (meaning two years of kindergarten.) Parents could refuse the recommendation but teachers made it known that they resented having kids in their class who they said, "shouldn't really be there."
My oldest was on the young end because of her birthday (but she made the district's cutoff date) and they told me she was "developmentally young" for kindergarten. (actually her skills were appropriate for her age.)

I resented these tests a great deal. My feeling was that it started school on a negative and argumentative note.

My daughters are teenagers now. The "developmentally young" daughter is in a very good college.

I still cringe at the thought of GESELL.

OMG....your post makes me so upset for the experience you went through. It is awful when teachers and administrators take what could be a very beneficial assessment (which IMO the Gesell truly is), and use it to wield some sort of power or attitude. I have been lucky to have worked in some rather nice districts--sensitive and respectful to the needs of kids and parents.

And there are always exceptions to assessments. I am so glad your "young" daughters are doing well.

[IansMommy]

Originally Posted by lolalola

Seriously. I had no idea.

:

It's ok. It took me and a few other kindergarten teachers a LONG time to emotionally get over this during the first year or two of teaching.
Times...they are a-changin'.