"Rat poison"? - Page 2

[zeldabee]

Originally Posted by minkajane

I see FFing moms on other boards declaring "It's not rat poison!" and I've seen blinkies that say that too.

Sounds like a straw man argument to me.

[mere2hayden]

I've seen it on boards and I've had a "friend" (not anymore) say it to me after I had stopped BF.

[DBassett]

I do think of formula as the 4th best solution. If you keep saying it's the 2nd, then people are going to think Oh well I can't breastfeed so I guess the next best thing is to use formula NO! The next best thing IS to pump. No I would never tell someone who was pumping that that's only second best but it is. Feeding at the breast is still the best way to go. If you can't do that, then you should try pumping before resorting to formula. HOPEFULLY one day donor milk will be a realistic option if you can't pump, and THEN formula. It's still the 4th best choice regarding feeding your child. Yes the first 3 are breastmilk but they're all different methods and I think that that matters.

I have nothing against FF moms but I don't think they should just dive into formula, I really think they should use formula if they have exhausted all safe options of acquiring breast milk.

[MelKnee]

I've read someone calling it rat poison. She claimed to have mixed up the free can from the hospital and set it outside for some feral cats. When she went out the next morning to collect the bowl, she said there was a rat laying dead in the formula.

[AnnaGA]

Yeah, I'm a FFing mom who is HUGELY supportive of BFing and it killed me to not be able to BF my son. (I have no mammary glands due to a breast reduction I had when I was 17). Anyway, I've been told I was irresponsible and should never have had children since I knew I likely wouldn't have been able to BF. Sad. I just tell myself that these women are not the majority and go on with my life. No point in feeling guilty about something I can't change. But yeah, I've heard it called "a poison that will make Andrew grow up fat and stupid." :

[sonrisaa29]

I've been told that I am poisioning my child, he'll grow up with "issues", and killing my child by feeding him formula. I don't know that it was specified what kind of poison, but it was poison none the less.

I've also seen formula called poison on here as well. Which as long as the WHO says it meets the nutrionational needs of an infant then I would never call it that. I hate the 4th best arguement, because to me BM is BM whether its from your body or someone else.

[Da WIC Lady]

Originally Posted by phreedom

I just think that referring to formula as ¨poison¨ and ¨crap¨ just turns people off. I try not to take the ¨your baby is more likely to die if you FF¨ approach to promoting BFing.

I agree about calling ABM poison and crap, but the sad truth is that a FF baby is more likely to die, even in the US. Most people will shrug it off as a third world problem. One of the questions on our pregnant mom's survey at work asks if the person thinks formula is just as good as BF. We get so many people that insist that there is no difference, I want to tell them the risks in plain English instead of beating around the "BM is better because..." bush. I had a mom ask me straight out yesterday why BM is better and I told her that BM has so many ingredients that formula will never be able to replicate and that is is specifically designed to be just what the baby needs every time, while formula stays the same for every feeding, regardless if that's what the baby needs at the moment or not. I've been ordered specifically not to tell moms that FF increases the chances of their baby getting sick or dying even though my supervisor admits it's true.

I see FF and even EBM in a bottle as a medical intervention. I know it's a bit of an extreme view, but when you think about it, it makes sense as breastfeeding is the physiological norm. With any medical intervention there are benefits as well as risks. I just don't feel that the medical establishment is doing it's patients justice by not following the same informed consent procedures as they would when recommending any other intervention. I understand that babies need to eat something somehow, but to promote FF without fully informing the parents of the risks they're taking with their child's health is unethical.

Anna

[Da WIC Lady]

Originally Posted by CathMac

MaryJaneLouise,
It's a great article but I think the way you have paraphrased their conclusion arguably overstates the case. This is an excerpt from the abstract:

"CONCLUSIONS: Breastfeeding is associated with a reduction in risk for postneonatal death. This large data set allowed robust estimates and control of confounding, but the effects of breast milk and breastfeeding cannot be separated completely from other characteristics of the mother and child. Assuming causality, however, promoting breastfeeding has the potential to save or delay approximately 720 postneonatal deaths in the United States each year."

~Cath

There is at least one article in Pediatrics that goes over the health care increases as a result of FF and the mortality and morbidity of FF babies. It's been over a month ago that I was browsing the online archives, but I can see if I can find it again if you like. It's not just the NIH that is drawing the conclusions that FF carries an increased risk of postnatal death.

Also, the way you're putting it, the WABA's World Brestfeeding Week slogan this year of "Breastfeeding the 1st hour: Early initiation and exclusive breastfeeding for six months can save more than one million babies!" overstates the case too.

Anna

[tanya1976]

Is ABM the PC term now for formula? I ask b/c formula really can't be labeled as anything close to breast milk. Just wondering, not being snarky or anything.

[Da WIC Lady]

Originally Posted by tanya1976

Is ABM the PC term now for formula? I ask b/c formula really can't be labeled as anything close to breast milk. Just wondering, not being snarky or anything.

I call it breastmilk substitute. I think it's more to the point than artificial breast (or baby) milk. I've seen it both as breast and baby. I'm more often accused of being snarky for not calling it formula.

Anna

[tanya1976]

Originally Posted by Da WIC Lady

I call it breastmilk substitute. I think it's more to the point than artificial breast (or baby) milk. I've seen it both as breast and baby. I'm more often accused of being snarky for not calling it formula.

Anna

haha thanks for the response. I'm learning new terms everyday, lol.

[thebarkingbird]

i like using the term artificial because it's not a value judgment (like crap or rat poison) but it does derive home the point that it's not exactly the most natural thing either. it's a good descriptive term. canned veggies won't kill you in six months flat but nobody really _likes_ them better and everyone knows that fresh is best. i think framing things that way makes people MUCH more receptive to pro bf arguments and comes closer to how i feel about BF anyway.

i'm not big on the word formula. kinda creepy. formula for what?! i absolutely HATE the term "baby milk" first of all, if your baby, any baby is making milk it needs to see a doctor ASAP. second, the term seems to advance the arguement that this stuff is for babies and that it is the most normal natrual food for them.

[thebarkingbird]

Originally Posted by Da WIC Lady

I just don't feel that the medical establishment is doing it's patients justice by not following the same informed consent procedures as they would when recommending any other intervention. I understand that babies need to eat something somehow, but to promote FF without fully informing the parents of the risks they're taking with their child's health is unethical.

Anna

[julie128]

I have seen people post here that formula is poison. It's quite offensive.

[minkajane]

Originally Posted by julie128

I have seen people post here that formula is poison. It's quite offensive.

A few people on this thread have stated that they've seen formula referred to as poison here. I have a hard time believing that the MDC mods would tolerate this. Can you please post a link to the thread or post you're referencing?

[RachelGS]

Oh, it happens quite a bit. But this is the Lactivism forum, not the make-formula-sound-just-fine forum.

[JessicaS]

To me, attacking formula is a red herring.

We can call formula names, thus hurting those who are stuck, however I think it just divides mothers and attributes to the "mommy wars"

We should attack the real culprits. Formula companies.

If not for their questionable marketing practices then a lot more women would probably BF.

No, this isn't the "make formula sound ok" forum, but it also isn't the "make other people feel like crap" forum either.

IMO a positive message and positive activism will help our cause a lot more.

We need to be more worried about those that attack BF, that promote FF and those that deny babies the right to NIP.

Getting in fights with other moms about formula is just picking the wrong enemy. We need to go after those that TOLD her she couldn't BF, that TOLD her "the baby is fine with a bottle for now" and then her baby has nipple confusion, the ones that told her she "couldn't bf here"

We need to hit the cause, not the symptoms.

[RachelGS]

I agree, absolutely. And I also think it's valuable to have a place where we don't have to tiptoe around all the stuff in formula that is not healthy. I'm not on the list of people who have called it poison, but I can see the need to express concern with its ingredients. I don't think these two things are mutually exclusive.

[sonrisaa29]

Originally Posted by abimommy

To me, attacking formula is a red herring.

We can call formula names, thus hurting those who are stuck, however I think it just divides mothers and attributes to the "mommy wars"

We should attack the real culprits. Formula companies.

If not for their questionable marketing practices then a lot more women would probably BF.

No, this isn't the "make formula sound ok" forum, but it also isn't the "make other people feel like crap" forum either.

IMO a positive message and positive activism will help our cause a lot more.

We need to be more worried about those that attack BF, that promote FF and those that deny babies the right to NIP.

Getting in fights with other moms about formula is just picking the wrong enemy. We need to go after those that TOLD her she couldn't BF, that TOLD her "the baby is fine with a bottle for now" and then her baby has nipple confusion, the ones that told her she "couldn't bf here"

We need to hit the cause, not the symptoms.

Thank you You said it much better that I've ever could of written it....

[sonrisaa29]

Originally Posted by RachelGS

I agree, absolutely. And I also think it's valuable to have a place where we don't have to tiptoe around all the stuff in formula that is not healthy. I'm not on the list of people who have called it poison, but I can see the need to express concern with its ingredients. I don't think these two things are mutually exclusive.

Which indgredients are you talking about?