School stuff squicking me out. - Page 8

[mom de terre]

Originally Posted by Meg Murry.

Yep. I'm thinking of little McKenna's enormous bed shaped like a dollhouse in her 300-square-foot bedroom versus little Jake's used bunk bed in a small room he shares with his three brothers.

And BTW, what if you (in your house) have pictures of your wedding -- to someone of the same sex as yourself? What if you are Pagan and have an altar with an athamé and a lingam on it? I can think of other issues as well.

Well, I definitely would wish I didn't know about the dollhouse bed...that gives me the creeps! However, if I were an elementary school teacher, I would want to know about the family composition or religious beliefs, so that I could be sure to foster an open and welcoming atmosphere. Why would you not want your child's teacher to know these things? Your child probably won't keep them a secret.

[Potty Diva]

esylvia- excellent points. Teachers I think, would be the last people to judge others economic status.

You should see the cars some teachers I know drive

my husband for instance drives a 1989 Chevy caprice that is rusted out, has a huge dent in the right door and is full of crap. Oh and the drivers side front tire always goes flat about every three days.

And...we live in the ghetto. In a 800 sq. ft house-with sugar ants invading our kitchen, and three indoor cats, and 14 dollars in the bank. Um, I could go on

[peachpie]

I haven't read the whole thread yet but I am interested to see the range of responses. dd is in her 2nd year at pre-K and this year we were told there would be home visits.

I was not comfortable with the idea, especially because the reason was never made clear. It was NOT an assessment (that occurred at a separate time) but a way to "connect to her family life". I eventually declined and that was fine. My husband teaches in the same school so there wasn't really any way they could argue with us.

Later, a friend and long-time pre-K instructor told me that she was required to do home visits in her previous position. She said she hated it. She gave me a list of what she was told to write up-- including things like-- Where does everyone sleep? Do mom and dad live together? Do mom and dad sleep together? Are there pets (especially something like a large dog)? What type of discipline is used? Any obvious safety hazards?

Obviously, this made me glad I had listened to my gut. I feel that this home visit would have provided the school with a whole lot of unnecessary information about my private life. It would just be stored away somewhere IN CASE someone ever decided there was a need to pull it out.

[MillingNome]

Originally Posted by esylvia

Well, I definitely would wish I didn't know about the dollhouse bed...that gives me the creeps! However, if I were an elementary school teacher, I would want to know about the family composition or religious beliefs, so that I could be sure to foster an open and welcoming atmosphere. Why would you not want your child's teacher to know these things? Your child probably won't keep them a secret.

Bolding mine to highlight the question. I love questions :

Shouldn't the teacher already be "fostering an open and welcoming atmosphere" regardless of whether they know who is of what religion or has two mommies? Do they have to go into the home to create that enviornment?

Once again, no matter how many arguments I hear, none has adequately addressed the invasion of privacy issue and the blowback a child my have if a parent does not want the teacher in their home.

It's like this: I have nothing to hide but still do not want my phones tapped.

I have nothing to hide in my home either but still do want the teacher over unless I am the one doing the inviting.

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by esylvia

Well, I definitely would wish I didn't know about the dollhouse bed...that gives me the creeps! However, if I were an elementary school teacher, I would want to know about the family composition or religious beliefs, so that I could be sure to foster an open and welcoming atmosphere. Why would you not want your child's teacher to know these things? Your child probably won't keep them a secret.

How about because they are our business and not yours unless we choose to share that information -- just as you would not wish me to know your family composition or religious beliefs without being invited either.

For what it's worth, my child would keep confidential information confidential.

[Penelope]

FTR, I loved dd's kindergarten teacher, and have great hopes for her 1st grade teacher (school just started.) I guess I'm just reflecting on how it might be for me to know that my kid's teacher could, if she wanted to, make mental comparisons between my modest home and other very lavish homes. I'm a little sensitive about it, I guess, because there are some marked class differences in our 'hood even though it's technically a middle class kind of area.

I do volunteer at the kids' schools, but so do many of the moms whose behavior can sometimes make me uncomfortable about money issues. IME, being rich and entitled doesn't preclude being room mom, yk?

I feel worse about this because I know how petty it is and how much I have to be grateful for.

[Elyra]

Originally Posted by esylvia

Well, I definitely would wish I didn't know about the dollhouse bed...that gives me the creeps! However, if I were an elementary school teacher, I would want to know about the family composition or religious beliefs, so that I could be sure to foster an open and welcoming atmosphere. Why would you not want your child's teacher to know these things? Your child probably won't keep them a secret.

Bolding mine.

That's not anyone's business. And this is why I am partly uncomfortable with it.

I am Pagan. My dh is Christian. Being a dual religion household there's a lot of things that are very difficult for us, ESP in this very very small town where most people have never even met a Pagan. It's hard on me as well as my children since it keeps people from allowing their kid to be my ds's friend.

Since we do have weekly visits into our home, my altar, and other things are kept in a part of the house that no visitors have access to. There are a few things scattered here and there that if someone were to really pay attention to all the details they would see that there was not just Christian symbols around. But, there's nothing overt. I am always very nervous about people not speaking to us after they visit, which has happened.

So, our personal beliefs which I have never been so guarded about before in my life, are now considered on a need to know basis. We only share them with people we know and trust in the most highest levels of our personal lives. And even tho I do trust my ds's prek teachers, I am not going to go tell them about any family dynamic issues I have with my parents and siblings, or have deep religious converstaions with them, or invovle them in my personal life unless I become best friends for life with them, and even then I don't share all that information with my best friends either.


Also, I do worry about being judged on where I live. I know I am. I do not dress like the other women who live where I do dress. And I have found people at the school treat me better if they don't know where I live and where my dh works. When that information makes it way around, I do notice the change. I usually notice before I find out that someone found out my address. I am judged on how much I donate or don't donate. I am judged on how much I particpate in fundraisers or don't participate, and I am judged on the gifts I give the teachers or don't give. Yes, I have had these conversations, so I am 100% sure it's true. Not everyone does. Only some, but it happens.

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by peachpie

Later, a friend and long-time pre-K instructor told me that she was required to do home visits in her previous position. She said she hated it. She gave me a list of what she was told to write up-- including things like-- Where does everyone sleep? Do mom and dad live together? Do mom and dad sleep together? Are there pets (especially something like a large dog)? What type of discipline is used? Any obvious safety hazards?

:

[SevenVeils]

I'm in California and I've never heard of this sort of intrusion. Then again, I didn't do any kind of pre-k or preschool or what have you.

This would NOT be happening in my home. Absolutely not. Not out of fear, my landlord who lives on the same property as I do and comes over somewhat frequently just to say hi (we get along well, she is AP/NFL/crunchy and all that) is a mandatory reporter. So are my parents.

But a school just telling me that the teacher is coming into my home as a matter of procedure, and TAKING PICTURES???? ummmmmmmmm no.

[littleaugustbaby]

I've never heard of this happening here, but it wouldn't bother me. I kind of like the idea of having the teacher over to meet DD on her own turf and to open up communication.

[mom de terre]

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

My husband for instance drives a 1989 Chevy caprice that is rusted out, has a huge dent in the right door and is full of crap. Oh and the drivers side front tire always goes flat about every three days.
l

Exactly!

Originally Posted by peachpie

Later, a friend and long-time pre-K instructor told me that she was required to do home visits in her previous position. She said she hated it. She gave me a list of what she was told to write up-- including things like-- Where does everyone sleep? Do mom and dad live together? Do mom and dad sleep together? Are there pets (especially something like a large dog)? What type of discipline is used? Any obvious safety hazards?

:Puke I've never used that smilie before. That is truly disgusting.

Originally Posted by iamthesmilingone

Shouldn't the teacher already be "fostering an open and welcoming atmosphere" regardless of whether they know who is of what religion or has two mommies? Do they have to go into the home to create that enviornment?

Well, yes the teacher should be fostering an open environment, but school systems tend to be somewhat reactive. So for example, a teacher might just not address the topic until she realizes a need exists. I'm not suggesting a big unit on "Why it's great that Jake has two mommies," but I would go out of my way to search out materials with diverse family representations. And more importantly, being aware of the situation would key me in to potentially upsetting peer dynamics.

I don't think that a teacher needs to go to the home. I suspect that the school has had a hard time getting parents to come to school and that is why they are having these visits.

Originally Posted by Meg Murry.

How about because they are our business and not yours unless we choose to share that information -- just as you would not wish me to know your family composition or religious beliefs without being invited either.

For what it's worth, my child would keep confidential information confidential.

Well, first of all, teachers' lives are pretty much public property, which is why it's still legal in some states to fire an unmarried teacher who gets pregnant.

Honestly though, anything that affects your child's school experience is my business. We're on the same team, so if you have information that can help me improve your child's experience, whether it's that he's afraid of speaking in class or you're a single parent, or you're not christian, you're handicapping me by not telling me. And you might be needlessly protecting yourself instead of helping your child.

I'm not sure how realistic it is to believe that a four-year-old will be able to preserve "confidential" information, especially without developing a sense of shame about it. Which Mommy is he allowed to acknowledge? Is he supposed to pretend he believes in Santa? And it's hard to imagine a little kid doing well in school when he's repeatedly being given the message that the teacher isn't his friend and can't be trusted.

Listen, though. I live in a liberal paradise. I know that a lot of you live in places that are much less forgiving of difference. You should move!

(Kidding, totally kidding.)

[Potty Diva]

esylvia- ya know your post just gave me goosebumps, right. I loved your responses to the quotes in your post.

I know as a future teacher I want to not only be involved in my students lives, but in their family's lives. And I'm an idealist so watch out- I want to build a trusting relationship with students and parents. I want parents to call and say, "hey just wanted you to know Jake had a rough night last night. He and his dad got into a argument and it's still bothering him." This way I will have information that will help me in being more sensitive to Jake's needs and learning ability for the day (and I'm talking junior/senior high school here).

I would also like to know about positive events happening at home, though I am sure to hear more of these in class.

So, I guess I figure my role as an educator extends beyond the classroom and into the lives of the children I'll teach, and shouldn't it be that way? A comfortable, trusting, cohesive relationship where parents and teachers share information and are a team in helping children reach academic success?

[LittleRockstar]

I've only had a chance to skim the other responses, but I'm : at how rude it is to inform you that there will be a home visit. I would keep it about manners and say something like, "There may be a time when we invite you to our home this year, as you are a favorite, but I would appreciate it if you didn't set a bad example by teaching my child that it's ok to invite yourself into someone's home, especially if that someone is not already a personal friend. Thank you."

Then again, I get judged a lot too...

[Mom4tot]

Originally Posted by LittleRockstar

I've only had a chance to skim the other responses, but I'm : at how rude it is to inform you that there will be a home visit. I would keep it about manners and say something like, "There may be a time when we invite you to our home this year, as you are a favorite, but I would appreciate it if you didn't set a bad example by teaching my child that it's ok to invite yourself into someone's home, especially if that someone is not already a personal friend. Thank you."

Then again, I get judged a lot too...

I like it

[thekimballs]

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

So, I guess I figure my role as an educator extends beyond the classroom and into the lives of the children I'll teach, and shouldn't it be that way? A comfortable, trusting, cohesive relationship where parents and teachers share information and are a team in helping children reach academic success?

At the risk of sounding cold and uncaring, no, I don't think it should be that way. And that's me speaking as a (former) teacher. For one thing, I wanted kids to feel that my classroom is a clean slate. Shake off what happened last night or that morning and come in to a totally different environment. It doesn't mean I don't KNOW, but I don't think a child needs the fight last night, or the fact that mom and dad are being foreclosed on, or (conversely) the fact that dad just bought a yacht, to influence how I treat him or her at school that day. I also don't want those circumstances to affect the inter-child relationships, in as much as I could prevent them. I was always convinced that it was my responsibility to keep the whole class on even footing as much as I possibly could.

Second, why should you WANT me intimately involved in your child's life? I'm an evangelical Christian, for example. Should I be digging my fingers into your child's faith? I'm in a position of considerable power and influence as a teacher, so it's very arguable that an in-depth conversation could count as proselytizing. And even if you ARE similarly convicted and our moral positions would be largely the same, perhaps I have other opinions or commitments with which you are not comfortable. I have your kid in front of me for seven or eight hours a day--I'm an enormous source of authority. I don't think that I should be involved in your or your child's life choices, because I have the ability to unduly influence them.

As a parent I feel the same way. What if one of my kids came to you as a high school teacher and poured out her heart and said she was thinking of sleeping with her boyfriend? Her father and I have extremely strong convictions about the wrongness of that choice. You could feel totally differently. If you, in the interests of "helping her reach success," (because she's plainly shredding herself up over this) shared with her that you lost your virginity in high school and you're just fine, I would find that totally unacceptable.

[Potty Diva]

I didn't say I would voice my opinion on any such things- way to go overboard.

But I am willing to be a soundboard for parents and their children.

Yes, I believe in home visits and think they can be beneficial for all involved as long as it is done in a respectful manner.

[MillingNome]

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

Yes, I believe in home visits and think they can be beneficial for all involved as long as it is done in a respectful manner.

I believe in home visits too... FOR AS LONG AS IT IS AT THE REQUEST OF THE PARENT I am not aware of a "respectful manner" to invite oneself into another's home against their wishes. I always thought it was an individual's choice who they share their personal life with.

And also...

Ahhh, never mind. I guess I must value privacy and the Fourth Amendament more than some here.

[thekimballs]

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

I didn't say I would voice my opinion on any such things- way to go overboard.

But I am willing to be a soundboard for parents and their children.

Yes, I believe in home visits and think they can be beneficial for all involved as long as it is done in a respectful manner.

Sorry, I didn't think it was overboard. You said that you wanted to be involved in their families' lives, to develop a trusting relationship, to use information from home as you teach each day, and (this is the one that actually concerns me) that your role properly extends beyond the classroom into the home. I just disagree.

[MillingNome]

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

I know as a future teacher I want to not only be involved in my students lives, but in their family's lives. And I'm an idealist so watch out...


So, I guess I figure my role as an educator extends beyond the classroom and into the lives of the children I'll teach, and shouldn't it be that way? A comfortable, trusting, cohesive relationship where parents and teachers share information and are a team in helping children reach academic success?

(you are in for a rude awakening)

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by esylvia

Exactly!


Well, first of all, teachers' lives are pretty much public property, which is why it's still legal in some states to fire an unmarried teacher who gets pregnant.

Pardon me, but teachers' lives are NOT public property, and I suspect that if an unmarried teacher gets fired b/c of pregnancy that she and the ACLU will be living for a long time on the lawsuit money. OBVIOUSLY, this applies only to public schools; religious schools often have a behavior clause as part of their contracts.

Honestly though, anything that affects your child's school experience is my business.

Absolutely not. My child's school experience is your business; what may cause it is ours. I am beyond appalled by your statement that "anything that affects your child's school experience is my business." You are not a psychologist, counselor, CPS worker, or policeman. If we are having personal problems that affect my child's school performance and choose to share them with you, then yes, they become your business. Otherwise, you are not entitled to one jot or tittle of our private lives, nor are we to yours.

We're on the same team,

By no means is this universally true.

I'm not sure how realistic it is to believe that a four-year-old will be able to preserve "confidential" information, especially without developing a sense of shame about it.

I have no idea how universally realistic it is; it certainly was realistic for our child even when she was four.

Which Mommy is he allowed to acknowledge? Is he supposed to pretend he believes in Santa? And it's hard to imagine a little kid doing well in school when he's repeatedly being given the message that the teacher isn't his friend and can't be trusted.

I think when the teacher understands that she or he is there to do a job and is no more a friend than the family doctor is and entitled to a similar level of respect and trust within the boundaries of his or her job, that this works fine with children in school. I find that it's harder to teach when that line is confused, and it potentially and actually victimizes children.