School stuff squicking me out. - Page 9

[willibug]

OK, I haven't read through everyone's responses yet. But my two oldest children went to KDG in a small village in Vermont. The teacher there did home visits before the school year started. I thought it was wonderful , and so did the children. The teacher felt it helped her to understand where the children were coming from. She really did develop a close relationship with the kids and their families, and I feel that the home visit got that off to a good start. On her first visit with our family, we were living in a small, cramped apartment while we waited for our new house to be ready, AND we had a new baby, AND all 5 of us shared a bedroom. I think it was helpful for her to know those things, and I never felt judged. She didn't snoop, but just visited in the living room where we welcomed her to sit down. She took photos of the kids in their homes, and as far as I could tell, they all loved having them up on the wall and sharing them.

But if I remember correctly, you did have the option of scheduling a time to meet with your child and the teacher in the KDG classroom before the school year started instead.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by phathui5

If you hate it so much, why do you use it?

I can't afford private school. When ds1 was required to start school, homeschooling was simply not an option, for many reasons (health related, marriage related, time related). I couldn't just not put him in school, because I'd have ended up with CPS coming to my door (which would have probably been ugly at the time). So...he went to public school, and I cried every day for about three months when I dropped him off.

A couple of years ago, I offered to pull him out and homeschool if he wanted (he was in 6th grade). He's not interested, and I'm not going to force him to homeschool, because I hate the public school crap. DS1 is bright, popular, enthusiastic, outgoing, etc., etc. He doesn't have my issues with the system, is enjoying school, and wants to stay there. So, I put up with all the nonsense and political crap...its only another four years.

My other three children will be homeschooled. DD would be starting kindergarten next September, and I can't deal with another 17 years (baby-under-construction would start four years later) of this.

[Storm Bride]

I've just been reading a few more posts, and want to say something. I don't know how this is going to come out....

When ds1 started kindergarten, it was September, 1998. My marriage had been on the rocks for at least three years. I kicked his dad out in April, 2000...barely a year and a half after he started school.

The issues involved in our breakup were his drug abuse, his emotional abuse of me, his emotional neglect/abuse of ds1, his total lack of willingness to do his share. Our house was a pigsty. I'm not a good housekeeper - never have been - and I don't care. But, it was a pigsty. My sister was subletting the basement suite, and had people over all day, every day. Her place was even worse than mine...and, if the laundry room door was open, her place was visible from the front door.

I was ill for most of that last two years...required antibiotics twice (other than my c-section, those are the only antibiotics I'd taken in two decades). I was working full-time, paying the bills, doing the grocery shopping (I had no license and we usually didn't have a car), cooking, cleaning, helping ds1 with homework...everything. My ex sat at the PC, playing videogames and smoking until all hours, then I dragged him out of bed every morning. I existed on about 20 hours sleep per week for at least two years. I'm guessing you're getting the picture here. Our life was ugly...really ugly. I was also falling apart psychologically for a lot of reasons, not least of which was my second miscarriage, which happened just a few months before the start of kindergarten.

I wasn't hiding it. I told the school that my ex and I were having problems, as I thought it was relevant with respect to ds1's education and possible behaviour in class. It was obvious I was sick. I'm sure everyone knew I was harried - one of the other moms, who did our childcare one year, commented on it more than once, as she expected me to end up hospitalized. DS1 is/was a very open person, and I'm sure he made comments in class that made it very clear that he didn't live in a very happy home at that time.

Can you mamas understand that there's a whole world of difference between knowing that people know you're going through a bad time and that your marriage is in trouble and that your home life sucks...and having a total stranger come into your house to see it?? I didn't even want my friends and family in my house at that time, let alone someone I didn't even know. I didn't want his teachers to see him on his "home turf", with his toys piled six inches up everywhere, because I was too tired to sort them out and the cat's litter box that was always a day overdue for cleaning (for the same reasons).

It was bad enough having to admit to the problems that were going on. Having someone come into my house to see it would have been completely humiliating. That's completely aside from the possibility that CPS would have been called on us, which would not have helped. I had to get to a point where I was ready to leave my ex - and CPS wouldn't have helped me get there. I had to do it myself.

I know the schools know what goes on. When ds1 was in grade 3, his teacher let me know about an incident in class. She used this "emotional thermometer" every morning, where the kids would say whether they were a "0" (bummed out), a "10" (really happy) or somewhere in between and why. DS1 had started his day with, "I'm a zero, because my daddy's in jail". The whole school knew about his dad, and I'm sure they knew his home life was crap for a while. There was no reason for them to see it...and I'm sorry, but I do think it would have affected how they saw ds1 to have that frame for his picture. I don't see how it couldn't.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Meg Murry.

Absolutely not. My child's school experience is your business; what may cause it is ours. I am beyond appalled by your statement that "anything that affects your child's school experience is my business." You are not a psychologist, counselor, CPS worker, or policeman. If we are having personal problems that affect my child's school performance and choose to share them with you, then yes, they become your business. Otherwise, you are not entitled to one jot or tittle of our private lives, nor are we to yours.

:

By no means is this universally true.

And, : again.
My mom was on my team. Looking back, there were a few teachers who might have been, too. But, most of them weren't. Some of us don't trust teachers as a group...and we actually have experience-based reasons for that.

[Elyra]

Welp, it's been done.

They came and were here prompt and on time. They stayed for about 10-15 minutes.

We greeted each other at the door, then they spoke pretty much only to ds2 and ds3 the entire time. I put a baby gate up at the foot of the stairs since I did not wish anyone to venture up the stairs. I am sure they could see that since there was a couple of decks of cards, a few robots, a couple of snack package wrappers and all spread on every stair all the way to the top.

They brought a snack of a nutrigrain bar for each one of the boys and asked me before they gave it to them.

They asked ds2 to show them around, but he just took them to the media room. Then they asked him where he wanted his picture taken. I didn't have to refuse, because ds2 said he didn't want his picture taken. They did pressure him a bit more than I was comfortable, but luckily my ds is quite a stubbon little goat : so he did not give in.

He handled the visit in stride but did seem a bit un nerved by the whole thing and glad to see them leave. As part of his therapies we work on generalization because it is something he struggles with and so this was a big step for him. I need to re evaluate whether they will be invited to his birthday party for that reason. Hopefully, they can come briefly. I would love for his teacher's asst to come so I can see her baby, she is due any minute. So that is purely for selfish reasons on my part.

They didn't ask any questions and just interacted solely with the boys but the teacher's assistant had a clip board and under the sheet I needed to sign were other sheets that at the glance I got, I think were questions about the homes.

[mamabadger]

Originally Posted by Meg Murry.

I think when the teacher understands that she or he is there to do a job and is no more a friend than the family doctor is and entitled to a similar level of respect and trust within the boundaries of his or her job, that this works fine with children in school. I find that it's harder to teach when that line is confused, and it potentially and actually victimizes children.

: This sums it up perfectly.

[Potty Diva]

Meg- then I think you have misunderstood at least MY intentions. I no more want to be my students friend than I want to be my daughters.

[mom de terre]

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

esylvia- ya know your post just gave me goosebumps, right. I loved your responses to the quotes in your post.

I know as a future teacher I want to not only be involved in my students lives, but in their family's lives. And I'm an idealist so watch out- I want to build a trusting relationship with students and parents. I want parents to call and say, "hey just wanted you to know Jake had a rough night last night. He and his dad got into a argument and it's still bothering him." This way I will have information that will help me in being more sensitive to Jake's needs and learning ability for the day (and I'm talking junior/senior high school here).

So, I guess I figure my role as an educator extends beyond the classroom and into the lives of the children I'll teach, and shouldn't it be that way? A comfortable, trusting, cohesive relationship where parents and teachers share information and are a team in helping children reach academic success?

Thanks for the compliment. I think most parents (though possibly not on MDC!) will really appreciate your concern for their children. Almost every parent I've worked with IRL wants more contact with the school, not less. As far as the "rude awakening" you're supposedly in for...I think you have a sense of how it will sound. Don't be discouraged by that kind of negativity, please! There's a lot of joy to be found in teaching.

Originally Posted by thekimballs

At the risk of sounding cold and uncaring, no, I don't think it should be that way. And that's me speaking as a (former) teacher. For one thing, I wanted kids to feel that my classroom is a clean slate. Shake off what happened last night or that morning and come in to a totally different environment. It doesn't mean I don't KNOW, but I don't think a child needs the fight last night, or the fact that mom and dad are being foreclosed on, or (conversely) the fact that dad just bought a yacht, to influence how I treat him or her at school that day. I also don't want those circumstances to affect the inter-child relationships, in as much as I could prevent them. I was always convinced that it was my responsibility to keep the whole class on even footing as much as I possibly could.

Absolutely, I completely agree. But you KNOW. And maybe what your student needs is a place to forget about his problems, lots of kids do use school for that. But if he needs extra time and extra patience because of rough stuff at home, you can give it to him, because you know what is happening. And you can work towards preventing issues with inter-child relationships when you know what to look for.

Also, PD's ideas about the student-family-school relationship are focused on the student's needs, not her own. Your examples of indoctrination are focused on the teacher's needs, not the student's.

Originally Posted by Meg Murry.

Pardon me, but teachers' lives are NOT public property, and I suspect that if an unmarried teacher gets fired b/c of pregnancy that she and the ACLU will be living for a long time on the lawsuit money. OBVIOUSLY, this applies only to public schools; religious schools often have a behavior clause as part of their contracts.

Many public schools still require "moral rectitude" contracts. There might well be a lawsuit, but the laws exist nevertheless. However, I didn't mean to derail the purpose of this thread.

Absolutely not. My child's school experience is your business; what may cause it is ours. I am beyond appalled by your statement that "anything that affects your child's school experience is my business." You are not a psychologist, counselor, CPS worker, or policeman. If we are having personal problems that affect my child's school performance and choose to share them with you, then yes, they become your business. Otherwise, you are not entitled to one jot or tittle of our private lives, nor are we to yours.

I'm sorry that I have upset you so much. I think we may be arguing slightly different points. I don't believe that you, as a parent, should be required to give the teacher an overview of your personal life. My original question was why a parent would want to withhold pertinent information from a teacher when the teacher could use it to understand and benefit the student. I have repeatedly said that I don't support home visits.

However, if your child is having problems in school, I need to overcome those problems in order to do my job, which is teach. It's very difficult to correct those problems without knowing what caused them.


I think when the teacher understands that she or he is there to do a job and is no more a friend than the family doctor is and entitled to a similar level of respect and trust within the boundaries of his or her job, that this works fine with children in school. I find that it's harder to teach when that line is confused, and it potentially and actually victimizes children.

I would guess that most teachers "understand" that they are not friends with students. I don't generally choose to be "friends" with children. They are children, and I am an adult. However, I have learned through experience that most students learn best when they feel that the teacher relates to them as whole human beings. This actually doesn't come naturally to me; I'm not really a people person and I feel very awkward interacting with students this way, but I worked to improve in this area because I know it's necessary. Believe me, I often wish that my job were confined to explaining gerunds and unreliable narrators, the reality is, it's not. Students bring a lot more than pencils into the classroom.

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

Can you mamas understand that there's a whole world of difference between knowing that people know you're going through a bad time and that your marriage is in trouble and that your home life sucks...and having a total stranger come into your house to see it?? I didn't even want my friends and family in my house at that time, let alone someone I didn't even know. I didn't want his teachers to see him on his "home turf", with his toys piled six inches up everywhere, because I was too tired to sort them out and the cat's litter box that was always a day overdue for cleaning (for the same reasons).

Oh Mama, what a moving post. I can only hope everyone treated you and your ds with love and compassion at that time.

[Calidris]

Originally Posted by Meg Murry.

I think when the teacher understands that she or he is there to do a job and is no more a friend than the family doctor is and entitled to a similar level of respect and trust within the boundaries of his or her job,

But if I was entrusting my 5 year old DD to the family doctor for 6+ hours a day, I would want the doctor to be some degree of friend. I would love to be able to have more casual meetings with the teacher than the annual parent-teacher evening.

[Potty Diva]

I guess I am taking my own experience as an early childhood educator and applying it to my future career as a high school teacher (and taking the experiences and knowledge of high school teachers I know who DO have strong relationships with students in and out of the classroom and who are still professional- but then we live in a small town where the parents of the high schoolers most likely went to high school together themselves).

In my role as a preschool teacher I work one on one with my students parents. We talked daily. We attend birthday parties, their kids come to our hosue to play with kailey. We are already intimately linked. They share with me before our day starts that J didn't sleep well and may be cranky. This information is important so I can adjust my expectations a bit for the day. And likewise J's parents want to know how his day went so when they go how they can adjust their night time expectations.

When we are all on the same page everything runs a bit smoother.

I also am not deterred by the "rude awakening" I am sure to receive as I have observed and know personally teachers who are involved in the lives of their students and they arecaring, thoughful, respectful, respected, and LOVED teachers. One, who I admire a great deal is a high school English teacher. I hope to be every bit of the teacher she is. I see how her tactics work and want to emulate them in my classes.

I'm sorry so many here have had such sour experiences with teachers.

[Brisen]

Originally Posted by vbactivist

YEs, I believe the converse its true. It would be great if the teacher oppened up his/her home to the parents and children.

But that isn't the converse. The converse would be if parents informed the teacher that they would be visiting her home to get to know her better and taking pictures of her and her favourite possessions. From the OP's description, this wasn't presented to parents as something optional. These parents aren't opening up their homes to the teachers.

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

Meg- then I think you have misunderstood at least MY intentions. I no more want to be my students friend than I want to be my daughters.

I can't pretend to understand each of your intentions, but here is what you said:

I know as a future teacher I want to not only be involved in my students lives, but in their family's lives. And I'm an idealist so watch out- I want to build a trusting relationship with students and parents. I want parents to call and say, "hey just wanted you to know Jake had a rough night last night. He and his dad got into a argument and it's still bothering him." This way I will have information that will help me in being more sensitive to Jake's needs and learning ability for the day (and I'm talking junior/senior high school here).

I would also like to know about positive events happening at home, though I am sure to hear more of these in class.

So, I guess I figure my role as an educator extends beyond the classroom and into the lives of the children I'll teach, and shouldn't it be that way? A comfortable, trusting, cohesive relationship where parents and teachers share information and are a team in helping children reach academic success?

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by Calidris

But if I was entrusting my 5 year old DD to the family doctor for 6+ hours a day, I would want the doctor to be some degree of friend. I would love to be able to have more casual meetings with the teacher than the annual parent-teacher evening.

The obvious difference: it's what you WANT. It's not what's being forced on you.

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by Brisen

But that isn't the converse. The converse would be if parents informed the teacher that they would be visiting her home to get to know her better and taking pictures of her and her favourite possessions. From the OP's description, this wasn't presented to parents as something optional. These parents aren't opening up their homes to the teachers.

Yep, and I can tell you right now, even though I think my students are wonderful people, that ain't happenin'! Nope. I work reasonably hard to keep worlds from colliding. There is NO way I'm letting my students see my undies on the floor, the soap I wash my butt with, the toilet where I pee, the bed where I'm glad I'm married :, or the mysterious grunge on the kitchen floor I'm not going to deal with until Saturday. Those things are not their business and their own toilets, beds, and anything else that's not public are not my business.

[Potty Diva]

Originally Posted by Meg Murry.

I can't pretend to understand each of your intentions, but here is what you said:

Then let me explain. When I say extend beyond the class room I meant only that parents could call and let me know such and such occurred, or call my home to discuss issues that pertain to their child (ya know outside the classroom).

I don't want to go to movies, or eat dinner with, exchange gifts, etc with parents or their children. BUT, I do want to be available after hours for parents to call and ask about homework, etc.

I'd like to build a trusting relationship with parents and students where they feel comfortable to do this.

Does that make sense?

Also, I'll be teaching hig hschool students and don't see me taking pictures of them in their own homes, or asking for a tour of their home. In fact I wouldn't do it, even if asked by my school.

I wouldn't invite myself over, I would hope that I could make a home visit an option and if parents declined to offer MY home as a location to meet. I see no problem with opening my home to parents. And I would think doing so would help to build trust.

[Potty Diva]

I also think it's bizarre that teachers would want a "tour" of someone's home when visiting. I always assumed a visit would tak place in the living room? I don't care to see anyone's bedroom, bathroom, or shtanky commode.

[Elyra]

Originally Posted by Potty Diva

Then let me explain. When I say extend beyond the class room I meant only that parents could call and let me know such and such occurred, or call my home to discuss issues that pertain to their child (ya know outside the classroom).

I don't want to go to movies, or eat dinner with, exchange gifts, etc with parents or their children. BUT, I do want to be available after hours for parents to call and ask about homework, etc.

I'd like to build a trusting relationship with parents and students where they feel comfortable to do this.

Does that make sense?

Also, I'll be teaching hig hschool students and don't see me taking pictures of them in their own homes, or asking for a tour of their home. In fact I wouldn't do it, even if asked by my school.

I wouldn't invite myself over, I would hope that I could make a home visit an option and if parents declined to offer MY home as a location to meet. I see no problem with opening my home to parents. And I would think doing so would help to build trust.

During the years ds1 was not home schooling and attended school I can say 90% of his teachers have given out cards with their home numbers, and a couple of the bus drivers gave cards with their cell phone numbers in order to keep closer contacts with parents. I appreciate that. I was not called daily, and I did not call them daily, but it was really nice to have that info for when I needed it. I think it's great if the teachers feel comfortable enough to give out their home phone numbers, and most likely for preK and grade school it isn't an issue.

Now middle and high school, most teachers I knew of were unlisted because of the pranks calls they continually got. One teacher, I know some kids called her daily hanging up and she never changed her number. So for me, I seriously doubt I would be giving my home number out in high school or middle school. Perhaps a cell phone number, but I am sure it isn't' like that everywhere.

Any way I think the teacher exchanging phone numbers is great, if they choose to do so. They don't' have to give out their home numbers because you always have a way to contact them by way of the school. You really don't have a choice about your number since it is required information in the school records for emergencies and such. I have no problems with keeping in close working relationships with teachers. I sure wish more parents would, as I spend many many hours last year helping in the classroom with reading and math skills. I really wished that some of the parents would have worked with the kids at home with things and I wasn't even the teacher. And it is so hard to see kids struggle and get the feeling that there isn't any educational support at home. But, in most cases I don't think there was a problem at home, but that parents have to work and care for the whole family and go do laundry, and to the grocery store, and....and....and....just not enough hourse in the day. I am a very hands on parent when it comes to my kids' education, but I don't believe it requires a visit to my home or vice versa to find that out.

This thread has really evolved. I sure saw that it would take it's own direction, and I have learned a lot and have been enlightened. I don't know how this got to be solely about teachers tho.

Again, I don't think the teachers came up with this as a fun way to spend their time, but I do think the school district decided it would be done. So in that case I don't feel like the teachers are trying to insert themselves into my or anyone's home, but that to meet their job requirements they have too.

Again, I think the point here is optional visits would be awesome. Stating that it is mandatory is not awesome.