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Am I the only one who spanks her dog but not her kid?

post #1 of 86
Thread Starter 
Since becoming a parent, I became a whole lot less patient with our two family dogs. And a lot less attentive too, which has been discussed on other threads.

I'm a lifetime animal freak and our dogs are part of our family. Sleep on our bed, act like one of the kids, the whole thing. But I noticed that since dd arrived, I'm so much more short tempered with them. Somewhere along the way I realized that when I'm especially mad there've been a couple of times that I've swatted their haunches.

Like yesterday one dog jumped up and got a sandwich I'd just made, carried it into the living room and ate it. I used to be able to leave my food on the coffee table at eye level while I left the room to go answer the phone, and when I came back they'd be sitting there staring at it and it would be untouched. Now they act up a lot more, I think as a reaction to the relative neglect since dd came.

Anyway I ran over to get the sandwich remains, scolded the dog and swatted him once on the haunches. More just because of my anger than because of any delusion that it taught the dog anything. Dd's nanny was there and I embarrassedly commented that I must be the only mother she knew who spanked her dog but didn't allow her kids to be spanked.

She laughed and said "yeah, and I also noticed that dd pretty much does what you ask her to and the dogs don't"

Another testimony to the effectiveness of spanking .
post #2 of 86
So are you going to stop hitting the dogs now?
post #3 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roar View Post
So are you going to stop hitting the dogs now?
Yes, are you?
post #4 of 86
post #5 of 86
Thread Starter 
Interestingly those replies do absolutely nothing to motivate me to work harder on self control. In fact, they make me feel the complete opposite: irritated with the implied judgment and defensive that more is being made of the situation than there really is.

Might be something to think about if you find yourself in a situation with a parent struggling with spanking her child.

At least my presumption is that you intend for your reponses to be helpful and to have a positive effect toward improving the situation.
post #6 of 86
I was just talking to my mom about this the other day. I have three dogs and have become much less patient since DD was born. I have spanked them and the other day my mom laughed and said look Madyson the dogs are getting a spanking. Thats what made me realize I did not want my DD to see anyone or anthing getting hit. I dont want her to think its ok for her to hit the dogs when she gets older. I need to practice the same self control with the dogs that I do with her.

I always find it amuzing that everything I talk about at home always come up in a thread a few days later. Its nice to relate to others and know your not crazy sometimes.
post #7 of 86
I am not talking about beating dogs or anything like that, and neither are you, but I just wanted to point out a pitfall when raising dogs.

DW and I have always been really great with kids, never really had much of a problem with child care, or dealing with challenges with kids.

Ok so then we got a dog. The _worst_ behaved dog to ever walk the planet. Nothing worked for this dog, NOTHING.

Then we read a site about dog training that gave us an "oh duh" moment when she was about 4-5 years old.

The goal of raising a child is COMPLETELY different from the goal of raising a dog. You want a child to grow into a decision making, independant, individual. You want a dog to become a subservient member of your pack, who looks to you or other Alpha members of the pack for every decision. You provide the food, leadership, and safety, and your dog provides support, protection, and obedience.

It seems almost cruel, untill you start actung like a true alpha dog/pack leader.
There is no rage, physical punnishments are instant, reactive, and are instantly forgotten. An alpha dog will not bite a disobedient subordinate over and over again until they stop the activity. They will give them a quick bite and then let them know, with afection that they are still welcome in the pack. The disobedient does not have to sulk, they are not confused, they just fall back in line.

Rage, screaming, and inconsistant behaver encourage the lesser members of the pack to start a struggle for dominance. In the wild, if the leader is behaving in such a way that his/her behavior is unpredictable, and inconsistant, it is the DUTY and the Instinct of each member to prove that they would be a better leader. Every time you scream, or lose control to your dog, the only thing they hear is "Well, this pack needs a new leader".

Correction in an animal can be something physical that is uncomfortable, in my opinion, this is natural. It is what they expect, it is what they thrive on. Watch caesar millan (dog whisperer). He does a very non-aggressive, non-rage physical correction where he kind of strikes with the tips of his fingers to simulate a "warning bite" from a true alpha dog. Dogs communicate with physical roughness. Humans can communicate with words.

I think to try to use the same strategy for a dog and a child you will just end up with a confused "misbehaved" dog. (that was certainly the case for us) Once I started acting like an alpha dog, instead of a crazy person, the dog was calmer, better behaved, and overall much more fun to be around. The best news is that since the dog's instinct is to struggle for dominance in the absence of an Alpha... you can take control ANY time, no matter how old the dog or how long you have been doing what you have been doing.
post #8 of 86
I couldn't believe how much less patient I became with animals after my first child was born! I used to consider myself a "dog person," and now I'm not at all.

Yeah, I don't think it's great for your child to see you spanking the dogs, but man, the sandwich incident would have really gotten to me, too!
post #9 of 86
I understand how your feeling. I have a dog and now 3 cats(need to change my siggy).
Since my son was born I have been more and more frustrated with the animals. My dog is a rescue who now feels the need to go potty in the house whenever she wants. At first, I just blamed myself for not training her properly and didn't yell or spank. But then I went through a phase where I thought that maybe I should swat her....and it did not work at all. Basically, now she goes potty in the house and is scared I'm going to swat her...eerrrr.

So, at this point I've decided that I am going to hire a trainer. I need to fix this problem and I honestly have no more patience for it. It's funny how most training books explain how hitting is not the way to train an animal but parents think it's ok to do this to their children. Weird.
post #10 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by blessed View Post
Interestingly those replies do absolutely nothing to motivate me to work harder on self control. In fact, they make me feel the complete opposite: irritated with the implied judgment and defensive that more is being made of the situation than there really is.

Might be something to think about if you find yourself in a situation with a parent struggling with spanking her child.

At least my presumption is that you intend for your reponses to be helpful and to have a positive effect toward improving the situation.
blessed, just to clarify, MY response was in confusion to kylix's post, I thought she was directing that question at Roar for some reason, and I didn't understand why. : I am just not with it today.

No judgement coming from me. I find my that my 2 cats as much as I love them, are a lot more annoying since I had DS!
post #11 of 86
so maybe you can stop spanking doggy now!!!:
post #12 of 86
SD, your post is excellent -- thanks for sharing your insights.
post #13 of 86
i'm the total opposite. i never even think about hitting my little dog (3rd child), but i have been tempted to spank my 2 kids at times!!!! but don't worry mamas - i don't hit any of um'
post #14 of 86
i could see me doing that with "the sandwich incident", too. i don't usually let it out on the dogs, but i did holler greatly at our younger pup the other day when i was feeling exceptionally frustrated. i talked to the kids about it afterwards, but really i was happy that i didn't yell at them.

if you're looking for a funny light good dog read, you might pick up "Marley & Me: life and love with the world's worst dog" by josh groban. it made me feel much more loving toward our mutts even when they bark and generally cause a ruckus.
post #15 of 86
From what I've read, letting dogs in beds is a no-no, unless you have a dog that has not an ounce of dominance in it. It sends a message that they are equal to you, which sounds good to humans, but to dogs it's confusing. And can lead to unwanted and/or agressive behavior. (something like that)
And walking through the door first- you should go through first. I don't make Shiloh wait for me, because she's one of those way submissive dogs. It's just easier to let her go first.

I'm not going to tell you about how bad it is to hit dogs, cuz I'm guessing you know.

Have you heard about "nothing in life is free"? Dogs really are happier when they have work to do!
http://www.k9deb.com/nilif.htm
post #16 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deva33mommy View Post
From what I've read, letting dogs in beds is a no-no, unless you have a dog that has not an ounce of dominance in it. It sends a message that they are equal to you, which sounds good to humans, but to dogs it's confusing. [/url]

ha ha, i totally agree with this!!!! my dog does sleep in bed with me ....under the covers even (she's a little jack russell terrier) and she is definitely very confused! she has NO idea she's a dog. and to make matters worse, i buy her clothes in the winter to confuse her that much more! my husband won't acknowledge her though when she's wearing a halloween costume or a jacket.

she literally sitting on my lap as i'm typing!
post #17 of 86
See, that's the thing with cats. When they are driving me up the wall, I drug them up with catnip and they don't bother me for a while.

I do love dogs but I think I would have trouble dealing with one right now.
post #18 of 86
Thread Starter 
Our dogs are great, really. They're both six years old and we've had them since puppyhood. They're completely submissive to everyone in the family, including dd, thank goodness. One is part chow and has some aggression to strangers. We were worried about what would happen when dd arrived. But she climbs on him, pulls his ears, takes food literally out of his mouth while he's eating, and he wags his tail and licks her. He obviously adores her.

I'm not surprised the pups are acting out some these days, since they get about one tenth of the attention they used to get. They're actually very well trained. The fact that he slipped and ate a cornbeef sandwich that I left within easy reach when no one was looking is probably more a testament to my own shortcoming than his. It takes a pretty disciplined dog to pass that test, and his motivations aren't very well supported these days .
post #19 of 86
ITA with ShaggyDaddy. Dogs are not people. This coming from a former dog rescuer. I LOVE dogs, but to treat them in the same way you treat a child is not natural.
post #20 of 86
had you already eaten part of the sandwich, or were you eating as you made it? If so, then this is typical pack behavior, A leader is done with the food, my turn. In either case, I think it would be important to start thinking more like an alpha on food matters. Assign them to eat, when you pour food, instruct them to eat it. If they always have food out, make it a point to take the bowl away during meal times, and replace them once the family is done eating. If they eat table scraps (which does not hurt alpha status in my opinion) make sure if they try to instigate table scraps with begging or stealing, the scraps stop for the night and they are not allowed to eat (even dog food) untill everyone else is done. These are pack behaviors that are important in setting up feeding rank. The last thing you want is some big dogs that feel like they should get to eat FIRST.

The most important action, the one you are struggling with is what to do when it happens. In my opinion this is what you should do: Reprimand the dog with a push (physical relocation to allow you access to YOUR food or a snap, like a warning bite). Take whatever portion of the food is left back to the kitchen. DO NOT decide that you just won't eat. It is important that you eat SOMETHING after this display so that the dog can understand that the alpha was not done eating, and that was the problem. After you are done eating your replacement snack/meal. Take the dogs to their food and tell them they can eat this. Walk away.

Of course sometimes we have no time for this, you can easily shorten it, just keep the alpha mentallity and you can't really go wrong, because the dogs do not have any desire to question a true alpha's decision.
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