Am I the only one who spanks her dog but not her kid? - Page 2

[AngelBee]

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[nascarbebe]

We have a dog and it took her a while to get used to a new baby. As long as we let her out to pee, fed her at regular times, and take her out walking she's fine. It didn't take long for her to figure out that she had moved to the bottom of priorities. Our dog is a greyhound and probably sleeps about 20 hrs/day. Greyhounds are huge couch potatoes, when they're not running they're napping. I've never hit her or my child. I would feel like crap if I did.

My only suggestion is to try to keep your dog on a regular schedule and take it out walking as much as possible. I try to walk our dog everyday, or at least 5 times a week an she loves that. I've mastered managing the stroller and dog on walks.

[kittywitty]

A big : to SD. I would never physically correct my cats unless you count holding them by the back of their neck skin to cut their nails (which vets even do). But dogs are a *completely* different breed and need completely different rules and discipline. Mine is driving me up the wall because we are all cramped in here. She's never stolen my food, but I think I would go hoarse from screeching if she did.

[snowmom11]

Originally Posted by Roar

So are you going to stop hitting the dogs now?

Is this kind of response really helpful? It seems awfully snotty to me. She obviously realized that she had made a mistake.

[blessed]

Originally Posted by snowmom11

Is this kind of response really helpful? It seems awfully snotty to me. She obviously realized that she had made a mistake.

I had to quit looking at it. It made me want to beat my dog :.

[chfriend]

I have no opinion on how folks train their dogs...but I loved reading about the monks at New Skete and their dog training program. It's got DVDs and everything....

http://www.dogsbestfriend.com/puppies/dg.html

[thismama]

Originally Posted by blessed

I had to quit looking at it. It made me want to beat my dog :.

I have to hand it to you blessed, you have brass ovaries to post some of the stuff you do here! Bravo.

[captain crunchy]

Wow yeah, let's condemn hitting people but advocate and share our dog-hitting stories!

Awesome!

Interestingly those replies do absolutely nothing to motivate me to work harder on self control. In fact, they make me feel the complete opposite:

Personal accountability is a wonderful thing. No one else chooses to hit your dog or chooses to stop hitting your dog but YOU.

I am not an advocate for physical force on ANY being, dog or child or adult or anyone who lives and breathes unless it is an unquestionable act of self defense.

In all this talk about the "natural" behaviors of dogs -- newsflash: dogs like food.

[ShaggyDaddy]

Originally Posted by captain crunchy

In all this talk about the "natural" behaviors of dogs -- newsflash: dogs like food.

I am not trying to argue, I don't think hitting dogs is right, but I do feel communicating on their level is apropriate. Dogs like order and a chain of command MORE than they like food, seriously.

[captain crunchy]

I haven't observed many pack dogs smacking eachother's @sses lately either so....

[heartmama]

Hmmmm---I'm not sure where to go with this thread--let's just be mindful that this was posted in the GD forum. It sounds like the OP has lost her temper with the dogs and is looking for help with that issue. If you want to discuss dog training that really needs to happen in the Pets forum.

[ShaggyDaddy]

oops

[ShadowMom]

blessed, I went through the same thing with my dogs. I felt really bad about it, but their status definitely suffered when DS came along.

One of our dogs in particular wasn't that great with kids, and he was extremely noisy so it seemed like he was always waking the baby. I would just get DS to sleep and then the frenzied maniacal barking would start if someone had the bad sense to ring our doorbell (and our doorbell range a lot because ex-H had a business out of the home). Sigh.

I was able to curtail my bad behavior when DS started to become aware of my actions (or at least I perceived he did) because I was kind of embarrassed. But the dogs never regained their previous status, in terms of me feeling loving and affectionate toward them. I guess my heart coldly decided what its priorities were, whether I wanted it to or not.

Hope you're able to find a good middle ground, mama.

[s_kristina]

Originally Posted by chfriend

I have no opinion on how folks train their dogs...but I loved reading about the monks at New Skete and their dog training program. It's got DVDs and everything....

http://www.dogsbestfriend.com/puppies/dg.html

I don't know if it is still on, but they did have a show on Animal Planet that I loved to watch. They are very much in to making sure the dogs know who is the alpha in the pack. They also have dogs living all over their monastery, it looks like a pretty cool place!

[blessed]

Originally Posted by thismama

I have to hand it to you blessed, you have brass ovaries to post some of the stuff you do here! Bravo.

Thanks! I like to keep things lively :

[woobysma]

Not to get too much into dog training, but I wanted to second all of SD's posts. I've also read that, in packs, it's the Beta Male who takes on babysitting duties with the pups. So, that's where you want your dog to be if you have kids, especially.

As for our dogs, we find that non-physical repremands are just as effective as physical ones (and we have spanked our dogs in the past, but are trying to avoid that now). A quick, firm NO and "the look" will usually get an immediate submissive "I'm sorry" pose from them.

[kittywitty]

Originally Posted by captain crunchy

I haven't observed many pack dogs smacking eachother's @sses lately either so....

No, but they do bite and make each other submit physically. It depends on the pack structure and the dogs.

Noone is saying to beat your dogs by any means. In fact, hurting them out of anger will make them lose respect for you-they don't want an unstable leader. But teaching them a lesson with tried methods that don't maim them (like the play bite Ceasar does) is a different issue.

How is any of this sharing and advocating dog hitting?

[limabean]

Originally Posted by woobysma

I've also read that, in packs, it's the Beta Male who takes on babysitting duties with the pups. So, that's where you want your dog to be if you have kids, especially.

Sorry to contribute to the off-topic part of this thread, but whoa! I would never want my dog thinking that she ranked above my kids in our family dynamic. She is the lowest man on the totem pole -- she's the beloved lowest man on the totem pole, but the lowest nonetheless.

If she thought she were second-in-command, wouldn't that mean she'd feel justified in "correcting" my kids' behavior, possibly through nips and the like? I would never want to encourage that.

We already have our 2yo give our dog commands and then give her a treat, have him fill her dog dish, we feed him before her, etc., specifically to send her the message that he ranks above her and that just because she's bigger than him does not mean that she has more power in the "pack."

[Violet2]

Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy

I am not talking about beating dogs or anything like that, and neither are you, but I just wanted to point out a pitfall when raising dogs.

DW and I have always been really great with kids, never really had much of a problem with child care, or dealing with challenges with kids.

Ok so then we got a dog. The _worst_ behaved dog to ever walk the planet. Nothing worked for this dog, NOTHING.

Then we read a site about dog training that gave us an "oh duh" moment when she was about 4-5 years old.

The goal of raising a child is COMPLETELY different from the goal of raising a dog. You want a child to grow into a decision making, independant, individual. You want a dog to become a subservient member of your pack, who looks to you or other Alpha members of the pack for every decision. You provide the food, leadership, and safety, and your dog provides support, protection, and obedience.

It seems almost cruel, untill you start actung like a true alpha dog/pack leader.
There is no rage, physical punnishments are instant, reactive, and are instantly forgotten. An alpha dog will not bite a disobedient subordinate over and over again until they stop the activity. They will give them a quick bite and then let them know, with afection that they are still welcome in the pack. The disobedient does not have to sulk, they are not confused, they just fall back in line.

Rage, screaming, and inconsistant behaver encourage the lesser members of the pack to start a struggle for dominance. In the wild, if the leader is behaving in such a way that his/her behavior is unpredictable, and inconsistant, it is the DUTY and the Instinct of each member to prove that they would be a better leader. Every time you scream, or lose control to your dog, the only thing they hear is "Well, this pack needs a new leader".

Correction in an animal can be something physical that is uncomfortable, in my opinion, this is natural. It is what they expect, it is what they thrive on. Watch caesar millan (dog whisperer). He does a very non-aggressive, non-rage physical correction where he kind of strikes with the tips of his fingers to simulate a "warning bite" from a true alpha dog. Dogs communicate with physical roughness. Humans can communicate with words.

I think to try to use the same strategy for a dog and a child you will just end up with a confused "misbehaved" dog. (that was certainly the case for us) Once I started acting like an alpha dog, instead of a crazy person, the dog was calmer, better behaved, and overall much more fun to be around. The best news is that since the dog's instinct is to struggle for dominance in the absence of an Alpha... you can take control ANY time, no matter how old the dog or how long you have been doing what you have been doing.

The above is really excellent advice with a lot of insight. Dogs are not humans and can't reason like humans. To expect to GD a dog is, imo, unfair to the dog.

In my house, we do an underchin smack correction that our trainer uses. The goal is to provide discipline and make it instructive, never to hit in anger. It's when emotions, rather than the goal of teaching a lesson, are driving the hitting that I think it can cross a line. My DH struggles with this with the dogs and I often have to remind him that discipline (for dogs) should always be corrective feedback, not punishment.

We also recognize when bad behavior is our fault and we don't go around smacking our dogs 24/7. For instance, a gust of wind trapped our black lab in the bathroom for several hours while we were out and she shredded an entire roll of toilet paper. We figured, if we'd been in her 'paws' we'd probably have done the same thing and cleaned it up without a word. If we leave things out where the dogs can get to them, we count that as being our fault. Dogs are dogs and they know the rules, but can't be relied on to adhere to them 100%.

So, the lesson for the OP is most likely that you can't trust your pups like you used to. They'll give in to temptation. Do what you can to avoid these situations all together and work on ensuring you have a healthy pack structure with your pups.

And don't worry that you've done any irreparable harm to the dogs. Their psyches are just fine.

All that being said, I do think the fact that dogs can be 'spanked' and children aren't could raise some interesting parenting conundrums as we try to teach our children what is and isn't appropriate. It's something I'll have to think about myself.

V

[Fuamami]

Well, I certainly spank my dogs. I also spank the horses and the chickens (gently, but it helps them with their pecking order if I do). I actually don't "spank" the dogs as much as whack them on the nose. Though once my dog growled at my dc and I gave him a spanking.

Same thing as ShaggyDaddy said, they like to know where they are in the order. If they don't know, they challenge you. And then what? How is that kind? A dog challenges the order by biting, and would most likely start by biting a child. A dog that bites a child has to be euthanized. Doesn't sound like responsible dog ownership to me.

Anyway, I also call the dogs "bad" and "good", scold them, and put them outside when they're obnoxious. I don't do this to my dc, and I think that they can figure out the difference.