older/smarter kids in Public K

[muse]

Ds just started K, after us planning on hs-ing him. We're taking it day by day. Right now my biggest concern is that he is one of the oldest in the class, and even age aside just isn't on the same level as most of the kids. The teachers spend most of the time establishing "the rules", which he got in 2 seconds. He keeps telling me how the other boys haven't learned the rules yet and don't know how to sit still and listen etc. There is one boy a year younger than him who has zeroed in on him and will not leave him alone and constantly tickles, scratches and grabs him trying to get him to "act silly" with him.

They are doing activities like play dough and threading beads on string, stuff he was doing years ago. They read books and sing songs he's known for years. Today they played I Spy as a way for kids to learn colors which he knew when he was 2.

I can see that already he is starting to pretend to not know so much..that's our biggest fear, him dumbing himself down to fit in. He said today he had to correct the teacher a few times when she got things wrong. He was placed in a class with a brand new teacher and I can't help but think he was put there because they knew he'd be easy for her. Already she has made him her "helper", which of course he loves, but I'm wondering how his needs are going to get met if he's partly there as a role model for others?

It's not like he's academicaly advanced (we've been following a waldorf approach to academics up till now), so we wouldn't fight to have him in 1st grade, but he's a very bright kid, very advanced in his language and socially. I guess I'm just wondering if and how PS works with such different levels and abilities in a K class or if he's going to get more and more bored?

[lawgrrl]

Maya,

Since you mentioned that you were following a Waldorf approach, I thought that it might be of interest that in the Waldorf kindergarten that my son attends, your DS would definitely be in his second year of kindergarten based upon his birthdate (age 6 by 6/1 being the cut-off here).

I have heard the early education teachers here frequently extol the benefits of the second year of kindergarten for children and of being the older child in a mixed age group class.

From your post, it sounds like your son's teacher is also following this approach in asking your son to participate as a "helper." It also sounds like your son can be a wonderful role model and guide for the younger members of his class. Perhaps this can be a very positive year for maturing and learning/demonstrating confidence and leadership skills?

On the other hand, if you feel strongly that your DS is in an entirely different universe than the rest of his class, I would encourage you to talk to his teacher to see if she agrees. Maybe he is ready for more academics and maybe you would want to consider first grade. Probably better to do that as soon as possible in the school year if it is going to happen.

I'll confess that my family is one year away from your scenario. DS will be six on 7/2, so we already know that he will be in kindergarten a second year and wonder how we'll feel about it next year - for all of the reasons you state.

[muse]

robin, thanks for your response. Nice to hear your positivity about how the teacher is working with him. Part of why DS is not in waldorf now is that he already did a year of K in the UK, and another year at home (using enki/waldorf), so it felt wrong to put him in yet another year of waldorf K. We still feel that is true. Although at least in waldorf there is so much space for play and arts that are not restricted by age/developmental level. What they are doing in PS is so much more narrow in some ways. And we really don't want to push him into 1st grade because those poor kids are being loaded up with worksheets and homework, when I think he should still be playing and baking and knitting!

So we are sort of stuck between methodologies and trying to figure out which is the least restrictive - and being reminded why homeschooling was the best option last year.

[34me]

Honestly, I would say if the option is open home school him. We were in a very similar situation with our third child. He missed the K cut off by two days and there are no exceptions. K-2 were hideous for him and he lost his love of learning. He got what the teacher said right away and was ready to move on. He became a problem in the class room when the same material was taught day after day. Because I have to work home schooling was never really an option although we were going to make it work if he hadn't gotten into the school he is in now.

[CarrieMF]

It's the beginning of the year, many of these kids have probably NEVER been to a playschool environment. I'd wait & give it a month or 2 to see how things are developing.

FWIW my 6yo is in Grade 1 right now & was the same way last year except the poor teacher had 2 of them.lol Asha & Karsen ran the classroom. It was a nice change for the teacher who also had 3 very strong willed kids who didn't listen to anything. The 1 was actually moved to a new school & 2 of the boys it was their 2nd year of K. They both have behaviour issues, though the 1 improved alot when Jacob left the school. The teacher did push Asha & Karsen in their academics becuase they started asking for it.

The teacher had kids who she had to teach how to hold a pencil, then those like Asha. Definitly a wide variety. The beginning of school they have to do the more mundane things because not all kids have been exposed the same way.

[LynnS6]

Remember the teacher has a lot of different goals that she wants to accomplish:
-Establishing classroom rules and expectations
-Determining where all the kids are academically
-Helping kids learn to sit still for short periods of time
-Helping kids learn to function in a group
-Helping kids develop their fine motor skills so they are ready to write
-Helping the kids become comfortable in the school setting

If the teacher were doing things on the first couple of days that the kids were COMPLETELY unfamiliar, I'd be unhappy. Her goal is not to teach new content in the first couple of days, but to establish routine, rules and the pattern for learning.

For example: Playing "I spy" with colors teaches kids the rules for "I spy" -- this is a great game to play with LETTERS (I spy something that starts with "B"), but if there are kids who don't know their letter sounds yet (and there probably are), then they won't understand the game if she does that. Most kids entering K these days do know their colors, and so by playing it with colors, she can teach them the rules of I spy so that LATER IN THE YEAR she can make it relate to reading.

Playdough and stringing beads: Builds finger strength. As a child with delayed fine motor skills, I'm thrilled to hear they still do this in K. It also helps children who are more tactile learners do something with their hands.

If you're concerned about what he's doing in K, talk to the teacher. Ask HER how she's going to deal with different kids at different levels. Ask her whether she thinks your son is appropriately placed in K. But wait until the 1st two weeks of school are over so she has a good sense of who your son is. Our K did a lot of project work, and thus kids could work at their own level. Kids who were quite advanced would write long stories during journaling time. Ds spent 8 months drawing pictures of buses and fire trucks. And then spontaneously began to write long stories.

[Zach'smom]

Thanks Lynn!!!! I was having a lot of the same issues as the OP. I will wait until we are 2-3 weeks into the year before I panic. I was just getting worried because ds is already a reader and is pretty advanced in many areas. I don't want him to get bored in school pointing out the letter "B".

[UUMom]

Wow. This just goes to show how huuuugely K varies from community to community in the US. I thought my kids' K class was the last in the world to have playdough or beads available!

[Sustainer]

I'm worried about my daughter too. Tomorrow is her first day of K. She's six years old and she has the physical height, not to mention the mental development, of an eight year old.

[jeca]

Maybe it's just that school and you should find another one for him. my DD's K from last year was way beyond beads and playdough and she was reading by graduation time. Maybe you should find a better place for him it seems that school may be a little behind the times. Or perhaps they are just taking it slow for the beginning. Edited to add and she wzas the youngest in her class only just making the cut off by the same day.

[muse]

I realise reading these reponses that my biggest concern is not the activities or rule setting, so much as him not finding a connection with anyone in the class at his level. I'm worried that he is already regressing just to have playmates.

When I asked him today if school was fun, he said, "yes, but all l I did was
get even sillier with ____ ". The two boys have been separated and seated apart from each other, but it's not like there's really anyone else I can see him connecting with.

I understand that the teacher is dealing with a wide variety of abilities and levels in the classroom, but I've also heard again and again that it is the smarter, quieter kids that end up not getting their needs met in this school system.

Yes I agree if we wanted to really get a good sense we should stick this out for a month or two and talk to his teacher. At this point I'm not sure we're going to make it that long. There are just so many issues...

[muse]

Originally Posted by UUMom

Wow. This just goes to show how huuuugely K varies from community to community in the US. I thought my kids' K class was the last in the world to have playdough or beads available!

This is unusual?!?!

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by muse

Yes I agree if we wanted to really get a good sense we should stick this out for a month or two and talk to his teacher. At this point I'm not sure we're going to make it that long. There are just so many issues...

It sounds to me like your heart is not in it. Part of being in public school is accepting that different kids have different needs and that not every part of the day can be individualized. IMO, the benefits outweigh the problems, but you're not seeing that way. Why is your son in public school if you want to do Waldorf?

The other thing to think about is whether your expectations are reasonable:

When you've taken a new job -- how long did it take you to learn the ropes and actually start being productive? Classrooms are like that - the children need to learn the ropes before they can learn other things.

How long does it take you to make new friends in a new situation? How long do you expect your son to take to find someone who he can connect with?

How is being silly sometimes regressing? My son is significantly 'sillier' with his best friend than he is alone. They are both reasonably 'mature' kids alone. Our dd and ds together are significantly sillier than either alone.

Why, if his birthday is in August, is he in K? There are disadvantages to being the oldest, and you've hit upon one of them.

[carmel23]

Muse,

Your boy will be just fine.

Take it easy.

best, carmel

[UUMom]

Originally Posted by muse

This is unusual?!?!

In many communties K is now first grade. There are several threads here at MDC about how demanding K has become.

fwiw, my oldest was reading well by age 4, and before he started first grade was reading long novels. He still liked to play and act silly.. in fact, he especially loved to play and have fun. He's 18 and in college now . He's a very thoughtful, mature person who still enjoys a good laugh. He was 'classicly gifted' throughout his school years, has won many academic awards in math, music, etc but we never had him skip a grade. He was already one to worry and fret about life and starvation and global warming etc. He needed to balance that intensity. Others may have done it differently, but we felt really good about what he was doing, the attention he was recieving and the unabashed joy he has/had about aquiring new information. (He was never one to be bored -- he'd just go into his own head, read, and his teachers were always excellent at respecting his needs. We were very lucky).

I remember his 6th grade advisor telling me he had missed a couple of assignments, , and I laughed with delight. His advisor totally got it and said "You're right. This is progress there".

Sometimes it's ok to be little and a bit of a slacker.