Circ, give in or not have a child together? - Page 2

[momtolivy]

DH and I discussed this while dating. I hadn't done any research, but had a very visceral reaction to RIC and told him that I would never allow my son to be harmed in that way. He argued a little, but has since done a total 180 and is very much an intactivist. That said, I told him I would not be with someone who felt that RIC was okay.

[mamabearsoblessed]

Originally Posted by alegna

I can not imagine loving a man who was insistent upon doing that to an infant.

-Angela

:

[LavenderMae]

I wouldn't have a child with him and it would make me question what kind of person I was with.

[CORGIDOG]

Boy, what can be added??? PP have almost said it all.

But for my $.02, I would try to educate him. There was a post on here yesterday about the You Tube site of a documentary on circ'ing. It was powerful. Let him see it and then see what he says. Anyone who can watch that video and be "okay" has a problem.

[Eman'smom]

Lets think about it from a different angle, you have said child, it's a boy and he's circ'ed. How do you look at your partner now? How do you feel about him after you've consented to cut off part of your son's penis? You will be reminded of that circ every day, every diaper change....... It will never end, it will never be ok KWIM?

[veg n mama]

I would not have a child with him.

[DevaMajka]

Originally Posted by MelKnee

What would I do?

I would not be with a man or have a child with him if he wanted to mutilate a child.

yeah that.
I would definitely try to educate him first. I found, with my dp, that a small comment here and there (facts about circ) was enough to get him to change his mind. No big discussion, and I didn't wait to see if he disagreed with my comment or not. Just said it and moved on.

Now, this was after we had our ds circ'ed. I regret it all the time. I hate it. So I wasn't in the position that you are in. I let dp decide (because I didn't know what to believe at that point). But if I'd had a strong opinion to NOT circ, and dp refused to leave ds intact, I would have been pi$$ed. I would have been mad at his total lack of regard for the facts, for our newborn ds's comfort, for the complications that could arise in ds as an adult, etc. (yeah, I'm mad at myself for that stuff...).
AND I would have been pi$$ed about his lack of respect for me. Like a pp said, the one who doesn't want to do it wins until there's a mutually agreeable solution otherwise. (same in many other situations too)

And, like another pp said, if I had wanted to leave ds intact, and dp won and we circ'ed him, I would have resented him a LOT. As it is now, I don't blame him. He was just as uneducated as me. And I know that if I had said "no" that would have been it. He would not have argued it with me. But if I blamed him, that would be a LOT of stress on our relationship.

[cravenab00]

i would not have a child with someone who wanted him circ'ed.

Its one thing to compromise on a haircut, or on who you spend holidays with etc... but never on the excrutiatingly painful elective cosmetic surgery of a helpless newborn.

[MissMommyNiceNice]

Would you even be having a conversation like this if it was a girl? No, and he should be reminded of that. (thank goodness we live here! - for that reason, anyway)

Give him the lit and if he still refuses, then either lose him or refuse consent.

[trmpetplaya]

This might actually be a *good* time to use the "brothers should match" argument

I wouldn't have a child with him if I had tried to educate him and he still insisted on RIC. I want several children, so I would probably leave him in that case.

[sun-shine01]

Originally Posted by Getz

You have 2 choices. Refuse to give consent and let him deal with it or leave him.

I agree!

[sophiekat]

yeah, that'd be a deal breaker.

[wannabe]

I wouldn't have kids together. If they could do that to their child what sort of father will they be?

Its one thing to compromise on a haircut, or on who you spend holidays with etc... but never on the excrutiatingly painful elective cosmetic surgery of a helpless newborn.

That.

I would definitely try to educate him first. I found, with my dp, that a small comment here and there (facts about circ) was enough to get him to change his mind. No big discussion, and I didn't wait to see if he disagreed with my comment or not. Just said it and moved on.

This too. My husband once suggested CIO. When I described it to him he VERY quickly changed his mind. Ignorance is OK, making a decision in a state of ignorance, or making a bad decision when you have the information is not OK.

[loriforeman]

in the beginning, before ever getting pregnant...i had "the talk".

several issues to do with rearing children were included that have NO compromise: no corporal punishment, catholic upbringing, no CIO, co-sleeping, CLW, complete vegetarians...and yes, no circumcision should we have boys. oh, and no drugs.

other issues are negotiable and up to compromise...but i would have let him know that i definitely intended to HAVE children, so it was his choice whether that was with him or not.

[DklovesMkandJK]

Wow...

Just my .02 but I think some of the responses are a little harsh.

My DH was very Pro-Circ up to and including our pregnancy with Jack. It took a lot of debate, work and information to open his eyes to the horrors of circ'ing. Now he is really big on anti-circ'ing and tries to share the knowledge. Just because he doesn't 'get it' yet doesn't neccesarily mean he is a bad guy and you shouldn't have kids. I would just keep trying to educate him in addition to reminding how important intactness is to you. Show him the videos, read him the articles, tell him the horror stories. Tell him he needs to change your mind. Have him bring you good reasons to circ. (ha ha - not that there are any!)

Tell him you want to have his children but could never bring a child into the world and cut a peice of him off.

Good Luck. I remember being in your shoes and don't envy your situation at all - but your SO's opinion can be changed. I never in a million years thought Michael would come aroubd and now look at him!

[A&A]

Glad you're here with us!

First of all, here's an article for YOU to read (not to show your dp, just for YOU to read and think about.) It will give your perspective into his brain:

http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/vuln...ty_of_men.html

And here's another article for you to read about why it's so important to listen to those mama bear instincts and leave our sons intact:

http://www.noharmm.org/feminist.htm



So, on to your question. If I were currently dating someone who wanted to circ a future son, I'd sit him down, give him a nice backrub, and have this to say:

"Sweetie, leaving my son(s) intact is completely at the core of who I am as a mother. I couldn't cut off their foreskin any more than I could cut off a toe. I can't, and I won't. Ever. We will NOT have a child together until you understand this and accept it. I'll give you as much time as you need, and I'll give you as much information as you need. But you need to know that this is part of the package of loving me........this is WHO I AM as a human being and a mother. If you can't ever accept it, then maybe we're not right for each other."

[carriebft]

Originally Posted by DklovesMkandJK

Wow...

Just my .02 but I think some of the responses are a little harsh.

My DH was very Pro-Circ up to and including our pregnancy with Jack. It took a lot of debate, work and information to open his eyes to the horrors of circ'ing. Now he is really big on anti-circ'ing and tries to share the knowledge. Just because he doesn't 'get it' yet doesn't neccesarily mean he is a bad guy and you shouldn't have kids. I would just keep trying to educate him in addition to reminding how important intactness is to you. Show him the videos, read him the articles, tell him the horror stories. Tell him he needs to change your mind. Have him bring you good reasons to circ. (ha ha - not that there are any!)

Tell him you want to have his children but could never bring a child into the world and cut a peice of him off.

Good Luck. I remember being in your shoes and don't envy your situation at all - but your SO's opinion can be changed. I never in a million years thought Michael would come aroubd and now look at him!

I agree! SO many minds have been changed. I dont think the options- right now- are ONLY refuse consent or leave. While I Do recommend the first one; i think that "education" is an option right now becuase you have the time for that.

Start with this article:

http://www.infocirc.org/MensHlth.htm

[wannabe]

Originally Posted by loriforeman

in the beginning, before ever getting pregnant...i had "the talk".

several issues to do with rearing children were included that have NO compromise: no corporal punishment, catholic upbringing, no CIO, co-sleeping, CLW, complete vegetarians...and yes, no circumcision should we have boys. oh, and no drugs.

other issues are negotiable and up to compromise...but i would have let him know that i definitely intended to HAVE children, so it was his choice whether that was with him or not.

Exactly. Choosing a partner is also choosing your children's father. To have a child together thinking "oh, he'll change his mind" is as foolish as marrying a man who hits you, or a man who has a definite idea on you working/not working when you have kids which is the opposite of yours.

[veganf]

If I knew that I had tried prenuptially to show him all sorts of relevant anti-circ literature, videos, etc and he was still pro-circ, then I would either not have children with him, or I would adopt girls or have him agree to IVF with only female embryos. But most likely I would not marry someone who was pro-circ in the first place, and I would put it in a pre-nuptial agreement that any boys not be circ'd.

[Mommiska]

Originally Posted by A&A

Glad you're here with us!

First of all, here's an article for YOU to read (not to show your dp, just for YOU to read and think about.) It will give your perspective into his brain:

http://www.stopcirc.com/vincent/vuln...ty_of_men.html

And here's another article for you to read about why it's so important to listen to those mama bear instincts and leave our sons intact:

http://www.noharmm.org/feminist.htm



So, on to your question. If I were currently dating someone who wanted to circ a future son, I'd sit him down, give him a nice backrub, and have this to say:

"Sweetie, leaving my son(s) intact is completely at the core of who I am as a mother. I couldn't cut off their foreskin any more than I could cut off a toe. I can't, and I won't. Ever. We will NOT have a child together until you understand this and accept it. I'll give you as much time as you need, and I'll give you as much information as you need. But you need to know that this is part of the package of loving me........this is WHO I AM as a human being and a mother. If you can't ever accept it, then maybe we're not right for each other."

:

I think that most guys will, eventually and if approached in the right way, come around. But it's hard. To leave a son intact, they have to accept at least the possibility that their penis is 'damaged' - and what guy wants to accept that? The Vulnerability of Men article is very very good for explaining what is going on.

What about just explaining to your SO that this isn't a 'my decision' or 'your decision' - that this should be your SON'S decision. After all, the penis doesn't belong to your dh any more than it belongs to you, you know? How do you think your SO would respond to just pointing out that your 'decision' is simply a non-decision - you leave your son the way he is born.

If your son choses some form of body modification for himself as an adult, that's his business (and highly unlikely!) - but why (and by what moral authority) should his parents chose that body modification for him?

There was another thread here recently where this approach worked for one mama!

Hugs to you both...this is such a difficult topic for both moms and dads (for different reasons).

To answer your question, though, I would let any SO I had know that no child of mine would ever be circed...and he needed to understand and accept that before we had children together.