Need Eco Friendly Washer that WORKS - Page 2

[IslandAndy]

Just don't buy a Whirlpool Cabrio HE. It's horrid. :

[KBinSATX]

I just had a radical idea!

If you have $3000 to spend on laundry maintenance, how about buying an He washer for $1200 or less (I am super happy with mine) and buy some new towels and linens, etc. with the rest?!

[Katheda]

Originally Posted by KBinSATX

It doesn't smell though. That's the one thing to get used to: your clothes don't smell like anything when you wash in Charlie's soap. No mountain spring nothing. Completely odorless.

My bottle of Charlie's Soap has a smell to it, most definitely although not to the extent of other detergents.
Of course, when we used Charlie's, we didn't have a suds problem as there really weren't any, our problem is that it gave my son & husband a bad skin rash and just didn't get anythign clean at all and our clothes stank like sewer and deodorant (that being diapers & DH's undershirts ).

I do have to admit ot having a VERY sensitive nose, I can smell a dirty diaper before the baby even poops in it

[KBinSATX]

Originally Posted by gool0005

My bottle of Charlie's Soap has a smell to it, most definitely although not to the extent of other detergents.

I've never used the liquid. We always use the powder. I don't know if that makes a difference though?

[Electra375]

Originally Posted by KBinSATX

I just had a radical idea!

If you have $3000 to spend on laundry maintenance, how about buying an He washer for $1200 or less (I am super happy with mine) and buy some new towels and linens, etc. with the rest?!

I have an He washer! That is what I bought, the set was $1900 with tax and warranty. That is the problem too, the new He washer is actually washing my clothes cleaner than my old upright washer and thus all the residual detergent from the last 3 years of that old machine going is in everything, even my diapers which I thought were more okay than our clothes.

I've got the suds out of most everything until we pull out the winter clothes. 1 cycle w Calgon did the trick for most things, unless I tried Charlie's soap in them. If only I'd known about calgon before I spend 5 and 7 cycles of water through some of my loads!!!

The washer problem is solved and I have had nothing but nice clean clothes from it since getting the residual detergent build up out. BUT the dryer quit working Saturday. I have a new one coming tomorrow afternoon. The washer is made in New Zealand the dryer is made in the USA... HMMM....: What's that say, nothing good about US made stuff and that is a shame. It isn't even the electronic parts, it's something mechanical, it made some squeaking, then clunking, then it became to noisy to turn on.


DH thoughts -
I did say to my dh last night that maybe I should just return these and get a $600 regular top loader and dryer set. He said there are lemons in everything and this washer was getting our clothes cleaner than a regular machine, so he didn't see why it should be returned. He has had no opinion on the matter until yesterday, he was quite frustrated with me complaining and stated he didn't want to hear about it and to just make a decision.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by gool0005

Calgon powder has A LOT of heavy perfume in it. The liquid isn't as smelly.

But the liquid and the powder are completely different products. The traditional Calgon was sodium hexametaphosphate powder, and in the USA at least Calgon powders (even the powdered bath products) still consist of water "softening" agents that react with calcium (hence the name); in Europe it uses some other chemicals to loosen lime scale, not exactly a water "softener".

Liquid Calgon (not the bath products) is a relatively recent product made of surfactants. I think they're low sudsing nonionics -- alkyl or alkylphenol ethoxylates.

Borax and washing soda are unscented and are still water softeners.

But borax is a weak one.

Robert

[Electra375]

Thank you for clarifying that all. I have used Borax, Baking Soda and Vinegar in my wash for years (the old top loader w the worn our motor and quite possibly the weakest spin ever designed) and apparently it has not halted the detergent build up I'm experiencing.

Still in my new machine -- Clothes, no detergent, just Calgon liquid in the detergent despensor and the rinse despensor still getting tons of suds in the drain hose. It does depend on the load, things that have been through my maddening wash, wash, wash with nothing but water are now clean. It's the stuff I haven't done yet that still scream build up. I just don't think I'm going to get it all out and why do I care so much??? Who else is listening to the end of the spin cycle to hear the drain bubble or clear??? Who else lifts the hose out of the drain and looks to see if there are suds??? Maybe I'm too picky??? Maybe I'm the cause of my own frustration by looking???

The Calgon website states that the laundry stuff is not affliated w the bath stuff BTW. Hmmm... And I thought I'd go buy some Calgon take me away! I stick with my calcium, lime and iron water to soak in, my skin is used to it.

[Electra375]

The washer and dryer are going back and I'm getting my money back. It isn't worth the frustration. My clothes got locked in the dryer, it total busted. Not even a week old.

I don't know what I'm going to do. I guess a pair of energy and water hog regular plain washer and dryer for less than $600.

I'm just

I searched for so long for the perfect washer and dryer and the electronic components are just not going to last to my satisfaction.

[kijip]

We have the Kenmore/Sears HE2t and it works well IMO. I love the front loaders and have never had any issues with the clothes, including some nasty dirty ones, being smelly or still dirty after washing. It is only slightly less efficient than the 5t and was cheaper. We were actually ready to buy the 5t but it was too big of a bubble shape for the laundry closet off our our upstairs bathroom. The 2t was eligible for the full $100 Washwise rebate from our city (same as the 5t). The 3t is the same size as the 5t but less efficient than both the 5t and the 2t so we picked the 2t. The Whirlpool Duets are the same machine and I have seen them at Costco for a better price than we paid for sure.

[Katheda]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

But the liquid and the powder are completely different products. The traditional Calgon was sodium hexametaphosphate powder, and in the USA at least Calgon powders (even the powdered bath products) still consist of water "softening" agents that react with calcium (hence the name); in Europe it uses some other chemicals to loosen lime scale, not exactly a water "softener".

Liquid Calgon (not the bath products) is a relatively recent product made of surfactants. I think they're low sudsing nonionics -- alkyl or alkylphenol ethoxylates.


But borax is a weak one.

Robert

They may be differnet chemicals, I tried to look up what the ingredients were but had no luck, you know proprietary stuff. Where did you get your info? I would love to see the link as I had a tough time finding out on my own (not having any connections in those companies and all).
Regardless of what their active ingredients are, the powdered Calgon stinks with a heavy perfume, the liquid not so much.
As far as water softeners and their relative strengths and weaknesses, the above mentioned softeners are all precipitating softeners and not nearly as effective as a strictly non-precipitating (Calgon has both kinds) softener but the non-precipitating softeners are nealry impossible to find.
The nice thing about Borax, aside form it's softening abilities is that it also acts as a peroxide bleach, very nice for whites .

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Electra375

The Calgon website states that the laundry stuff is not affliated w the bath stuff BTW. Hmmm... And I thought I'd go buy some Calgon take me away!

The trademark was spun off for the toiletries to another company in the 1990s, although formerly they'd been made by the same business. It may be that part of the bargain was for Calgon water softener (powder) to no longer advertise or label its use as bath salts, so they wouldn't be competing. But you can still use the American powdered Calgon water conditioner as bath salts, with less perfume & color than Calgon Bouquet Bath. European Calgon is different still, and probably not suitable for bathing.

Robert

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by gool0005

[Powdered & liquid Calgon laundry additives] may be differnet chemicals, I tried to look up what the ingredients were but had no luck, you know proprietary stuff. Where did you get your info?

Heh...inferentially.

In the 1990s I saw this liquid "Calgon Water Softener/Soap Scum Remover" on the store shelf and got curious. Materials for reacting with calcium to "soften" water are not conveniently formulated as liquids. When phosphate salts were commonly used as water "softening" "builders" in laundry detergents, the only one that could be dissolved to a high enough concentration in liquids to be worthwhile was tetrapotassium pyrophosphate. But anyway, the sale of phosphate-built home laundry detergents was outlawed in NY decades ago. But it seemed silly to make a solution of sodium carbonate or citrate for such use rather than a powder. I tested its pH, but I don't remember what I got.

The warnings on the label, however, were consistent with its being made of surfactants of the alkyl or alkylphenol ethoxylate type. I smeared a little on my lips and got the anesthesia one would expect from those classes of surfactants. (As with the spermicide nonoxynol 9 and the lab surfactant Triton X-100.) So I'm pretty sure that's what it is. Then it's just low sudsing detergent, which removes soap scum by emulsifying it. Similar to Shaklee Basic H, Miracle White, and a bunch of other things not labeled as "water softener". Because "hard" and "soft" are slang terms in describing liquid water, things like this Calgon liquid product and magnetic water treatment devices are justified in calling themselves "water softeners" even if the most common usage would not consider them such.

The nice thing about Borax, aside form it's softening abilities is that it also acts as a peroxide bleach, very nice for whites .

No, it doesn't. You must be confusing borate with perborate -- the "enriched" borax in Dreft (US version), if they still use that.

Robert

[Katheda]

Ah, in the 90's I had soft water and wasn't concerned about Calgon. Also, i was far too busy in school but I do stand by my ascertation that the liquid and powdered forms vary significantly in the amount of perfume they have in them and that their ingredients aren't readily available. Would still appreciate links .
As for the borax, I don't think I'm confused at all. Here's a link in case you are interested:
http://chemistry.about.com/od/howthi...boraxworks.htm

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by gool0005

As for the borax, I don't think I'm confused at all. Here's a link in case you are interested:
http://chemistry.about.com/od/howthi...boraxworks.htm

No, you're confused, but it's not your fault -- your source is confused. It says, "Borax and other borates clean and bleach by converting some water molecules to hydrogen peroxide (H2O2).", which is a lie unless "other borates" means perborates.

The article would have sodium borate (Na2B4O7) oxidizing H2O to H2O2. In return, the H2O would have to be reducing the sodium borate to something less oxidized, and that's just not going to happen with borate. The boron in borate is in an oxidation state of +3, and there's just no lower oxidation state it can reasonably go down to in water. So the reaction that article says occurs, doesn't. No hydrogen peroxide is formed. No oxidation takes place.

Robert

[Katheda]

If that's the case then Robert, I think that you should let that PhD in Chemistry know that she got her reactions wrong