Nader in 2004?

[RowansDad]

Interesting (and irritating) interview with Ralph Nader on his Hamlet-like to run or not to run stance:
http://www.onpointradio.org/shows/20...717_a_main.asp

Candidate Dean comes under some criticism...Which...funnily enough...dovetails to an earlier show on our local NPR affiliate:
http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2...717_a_main.asp .

Note that both shows are an hour long.

[Devi]

Nader in 2004???

Ralph Nader, whom Democrats blame for Al Gore's defeat in last presidential election, says he will decide later this year whether to run again, depending on fortunes of Dennis Kucinich and Howard Dean, Democratic candidates whose positions most resemble his own (S) Ralph Nader, whom Democrats blame for Al Gore's defeat in the last presidential election, said today that he would decide later this year whether to seek the White House again, as a Green Party candidate or an independent.

I'm curious what will happen with the Green vote if Kerry or ? gets the nod... Should be interesting to say the least.

[zealsmom]

I don't find that irritating at all, RowansDad.

Funny how they say " who Democrats blame for Al Gore's defeat" since Al Gore DID win and the people who they should be "blaming" live in Florida and at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Go Ralph for standing up for what's right!!!

[Devi]

I don't blame Nader. I just don't like him. I think he's a hypocrate and a liar....

[JessicaS]

I don't know much about him lying (I think I am just a little uneducated about that) but I don't agree with some of the policies he proposed.

[Devi]

Abimommy, I actually have a love/hate relationship with Nader, but....

I feel he lied when he said there was no difference between Dems and Repubs. And, he's beginning to tout that same rhetoric again. The hypocrate thing comes from his history of union busting in the companies he owned ... among other things. GRRRR!

I hear where he's coming from, and I share many of his frustrations. But, I think he's choosing to be a destructive force rather than productive in his approach to a solution.


K, I'm done.

[Hilary Briss]

I feel he lied when he said there was no difference between Dems and Repubs. And, he's beginning to tout that same rhetoric again.

That's not a lie, that's a statement of his opinion, which I think is more or less correct.

The hypocrate thing comes from his history of union busting in the companies he owned ... among other things. GRRRR

I don't know much about this, but I'd be interested to hear more about it.

I may very well break my streak of abstentions in presidential elections, to vote Nader this time round.

[RowansDad]

These links may prove useful, especially on where St. Ralphie may lie on the Hypocrite Meter:

http://www.realchange.org/nader.htm

http://archive.salon.com/politics/fe.../06/20/nader/.

I believe St. Ralphie is currently fudging on the Dems = GOP line now. In particular, during the interview that I linked to above, he now states that he never said they where the two parties were the same in general, just that they were the same with regards to suckling at the corporate fund raising tit.

This, I believe, is lame backtracking because I certainly do not remember any such qualifiers to this soundbite during his 2000 campaign. Indeed, I doubt several friends/aquaintances of mine would have bailed out on his 2000 campaign if that was his mantra.

[JessicaS]

Union busting alone would be enough to make me not vote for him.

[Devi]

Nader fights for the working poor ... unless they work for 'him'...

Nader has a long history of union-busting and worker abuse. Nader pays salaries "from $13,000 down" while amassing million$ which he then invests in Occidental, Monsanto, and Raytheon -- weapons makers, monopolists who overcharge the poor for needed medications, Frankenfoods...."

If your gonna vote Green, vote for Cynthia Mckinney or Winona Laduke.

Nader quotes to chew on:

"Nader contended that Bush would not damage the Earth and generally remain popular, but he has pushed arctic drilling and other anti-environment policies. "If they continue to pursue a scorched-earth policy, they’ll be defeated in the next election, and the environmental rules will come out stronger as a result. There’s no way they’re going to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR)."

"Nader said that a Gore presidency "wouldn't have been any different in terms of military and foreign policy, soft on corporate crime. It wouldn't have been any different in ignoring the need to transfer our country to renewable energy and organic agriculture and protecting the small farmer. And it wouldn't have been any different on GATT and NAFTA and the increasing trade deficits and exporting American jobs." -- Green Party USA 1-14/02

Some differences between Bush/Gore here...

Is Nader good for the Greens?

http://www.damnedbigdifference.org/issues

Gloria on Ralph...

Why vote Dem???

"Nader's Tweedledum and Tweedledee assertion that there is no important difference between the major Presidential candidates would be laughable if it weren't so unsafe." ~Toby Moffett

[Devi]

HB failed to reply to your post...

Originally posted by Hilary Briss
That's not a lie, that's a statement of his opinion, which I think is more or less correct.

I may very well break my streak of abstentions in presidential elections, to vote Nader this time round.

[SarahGuinn]

Originally posted by Devi
If your gonna vote Green, vote for Cynthia Mckinney or Winona Laduke.

Please don't vote McKinney. She's from my district and has a terrible record of antiSemetic statements as well as her father, who also repped in GA.

Also, her bows get on my very.last.nerve.

[zealsmom]

As I remember it, he was drawing similarities between parties NOT Bush/Gore specifically, although there were still many.

[Hilary Briss]

Or, maybe I'll just vote for Bush...

[Hilary Briss]

Union busting alone would be enough to make me not vote for him.

Now that I'm in a union, I'd just like to say they should be busted, and if management won't do it, then efficient markets will.

[Devi]

Originally posted by Hilary Briss
Now that I'm in a union, I'd just like to say they should be busted, and if management won't do it, then efficient markets will.

Bush may just be the guy for you ?

Sara Guinn said~Please don't vote McKinney. She's from my district and has a terrible record of antiSemetic statements as well as her father, who also repped in GA.

If she is guilty of these things, that is scarry. I wonder why the Green Party would court her ?

[JessicaS]

Now that I'm in a union, I'd just like to say they should be busted, and if management won't do it, then efficient markets will.

You said that before you were in a union.

I will just have to disagree on that one. We have discussed unions before, my father is a teamster and my view on them isn't going to change.

[SarahGuinn]

Because of her excellent voting record otherwise.

She is fringe and out there so she is a media scapegoat here in Atlanta.

I should have spent more time in my reply. It's her father that slings phrases about "racist Jews" and blames his loss' on those same folks. Cynthia herself did publicly scold her father after one bad quote was all over the news.

It's not that she's exactly antiSemetic, she's proPalestinian. Sometimes the media can make her seem pretty freakin' ugly. I do fall victim to that sometimes.

Here's her voting record, if you're interested.
http://www.issues2000.org/GA/Cynthia_McKinney.htm

[Els' 3 Ones]

We had this thread recently:

Greg Palast: The Screwing of Cynthia McKinney

[Devi]

Cynthia Mckinney has some interesting endorsements

Here

Abimommy I'm with you on the Union issue. My step dad was in the construction/laborers union. Without a college education, a Union can still help guarantee a living wage, and help protect workers from unsafe working conditions. Are they perfect? No.

Regarding Nader, he claims to fully support unions. Ralph Nader also claims to support a 'living wage' but didn't want to pay his own employees one?

"Appearing at a union annual convention, Nader offered himself as a strong alternative to Republican George W. Bush and Democrat Al Gore. He promised to protect labor rights, fight for a higher minimum wage and push for universal health care. “Democrats have the support of most unions without getting anything back. All they get is the phrase, ‘You’d better support us because the Republicans are terrible.” Source: AP Story, NY Times Aug 29, 2000

I would love to see lots of people run for Prez, but in order for me to take any Presidential candidate seriously I'd personally like to see him/her start out in the Senate or Governing a state first. I want to see their record. In the words of Gloria Steinem regarding Ralph ...

"He was able to take all those perfect progressive positions of the past because he never had to build an electoral coalition, earn a majority vote, or otherwise submit to democracy."

*edited to fix link*