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HTG - Healing the Gut September/October 07 - Page 6

post #101 of 254
Thread Starter 
ok, I have more questions.

first, bentonite. I've heard good things, and I'm curious to try it. Anyone have any thoughts? I've read not to take it while nursing, but it's *because* I'm nursing that I'm motivated to take it. Is the precaution just because it's detox and detox+nursing=bad? wouldn't all the toxins get bound up in the clay instead of heading for the milk?

second, Brenda Watson's H.O.P.E. program has been on the PBS telethons here. She talks about healing a leaky gut with High fiber (35 g/day), Omega-3's (2g/day), Probiotics (6 billion/day), and enzymes (don't know). Sounds reasonable. basically flush the bad (fiber), don't add more bad (enzymes), replace bad with good (probiotics), and fix a likely deficiency (omega-3's). right?

compare with SCD: SCD is basically kill the bad (starve via no di/poly-saccharides), replace with good (24-hr yogurt), don't irritate further (lots of gelatin, be weary of anything hard to digest.

compare with Rubin and Brasco's Guts and Glory: SCD but limit fruit (sugar), don't be so strict on the grains, but go all traditional foods/maker's diet (easier to digest), and throw in a bunch of supplements.

what do you think are the most important factors? obviously, there are many paths to feeling better/healing. I wonder if there's a trick, or if it's just about being able to follow the plan and then maintain.

and finally, anyone know anything about enzymes and feel like sharing? dosage? good brands?
post #102 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
and finally, anyone know anything about enzymes and feel like sharing? dosage? good brands?
I'll be : on this one.

I just ordered the Eat Fat Lose Fat book-- not because I want to lose weight, but for the Health Recovery Diet bit. So far, I have cut out almost all grains and beans from my diet and added in a lot of bone broth soups and eggs, natural whole yoghurt and bananas. I eat lactofermented sauerkraut from time to time, as well, and I just started taking cod liver oil. I have inadvertently lost ten pounds on this diet and I am feeling much better, symptomatically, but I consider it more of an in-between stage while I figure out exactly what I am doing next by doing more research.
post #103 of 254
Does anyone know how really bad it would be to have a cup of coffee once in awhile while healing the gut? I am dying for coffee. Thoughts?
post #104 of 254
Maybe try teecino if that's allowed. It's really good and it's not coffee. Is it allowed?
post #105 of 254
Ok...I hope I'm not hijacking here but I have a question for those of you who know how to use cultured raw dairy to heal stuff. I got my first 1/2 gallon of raw milk, and some kefir grains, tonight and I'm trying to figure out how to make the best use of it as I don't know when I'll be able to afford to buy more. So here's my story...

I've been off dairy for a month to see if it would help my nursing DS's eczema. After a month, he is no better and no worse, so I'm not sure what to make of it. Could be that dairy is NOT the problem so eliminating it didn't fix things, or it could be that dairy is A problem but not the only problem (so he didn't get better) and I would have to do a total elimination diet to find out. It may come to that, but my current circumstances prevent me from doing it right now.

I have a hunch that dairy is not the problem. But even if it is, I'm told that the beneficial bacteria in cultured raw dairy might still help, or at least the raw dairy would be tolerated better than pasteurized.

So I'm wondering. If I end my dairy fast tomorrow, and go ahead and go back to pasteurized dairy myself (since I've never had a problem digesting milk and have no allergies) but use the raw milk to make kefir and yogurt for DS (he's 7 months old, that's old enough to eat kefir and yogurt, right?) will the pasteurized dairy in MY system (and thus my breastmilk) cancel out the benefits of the cultured milk that he eats?

I also have a 2yo who also suffers from eczema. I took him off dairy about 10 days ago, no improvement so far, and I'm not comfortable with keeping him off it any longer because I think he needs the fat, calcium, protein etc. I would love to start just giving him raw milk, but that half gallon is going to go fast. So I have a similar question with him. If I give him pasteurized milk to drink, but then also give him raw milk kefir or yogurt, d'ya think the pasteurized milk will cancel the benefit of the cultured stuff?

I would also, of course, love to drink the milk myself but like I said that 1/2 gallon is going to go fast!

Am I making sense at all?

From reading this thread I know there's a lot of other stuff I could/should be doing...but ya gotta start somewhere, right?
post #106 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by chilliepepper View Post
I've been off dairy for a month to see if it would help my nursing DS's eczema. After a month, he is no better and no worse, so I'm not sure what to make of it. Could be that dairy is NOT the problem so eliminating it didn't fix things, or it could be that dairy is A problem but not the only problem (so he didn't get better) and I would have to do a total elimination diet to find out. It may come to that, but my current circumstances prevent me from doing it right now.
i would guess that there is more to it than just dairy. i would consider 2 things - adding an evening primrose oil supplement and eliminating wheat (and/or gluten).

Quote:
So I'm wondering. If I end my dairy fast tomorrow, and go ahead and go back to pasteurized dairy myself (since I've never had a problem digesting milk and have no allergies) but use the raw milk to make kefir and yogurt for DS (he's 7 months old, that's old enough to eat kefir and yogurt, right?) will the pasteurized dairy in MY system (and thus my breastmilk) cancel out the benefits of the cultured milk that he eats?
if it is dairy, your own continuation of dairy will extend gut damage.

Quote:
I also have a 2yo who also suffers from eczema. I took him off dairy about 10 days ago, no improvement so far, and I'm not comfortable with keeping him off it any longer because I think he needs the fat, calcium, protein etc. I would love to start just giving him raw milk, but that half gallon is going to go fast. So I have a similar question with him. If I give him pasteurized milk to drink, but then also give him raw milk kefir or yogurt, d'ya think the pasteurized milk will cancel the benefit of the cultured stuff?
fat replacement: coconut oil, coconut milk, avocado, meat, nuts
calcium replacement: bone broths, broccoli, Calcium supplement for yourself (if you're nursing), sesame seeds, almonds, sea veggie broths
protein replacemnet: meat, nuts

my 2.5 yr old does fine without dairy.

withholding dairy - improvement shoudl be somewhat noticeable within even just a week if one's reaction is bad; otherwise, improvement will be more subtle and take longer. casein (one of the obnoxious milk proteins) is bad for the damage it does to the gut - though gluten is slightly worse than casein. so if a dairy elimination doesn't show results with TWO months (yes, it could take that long), then always consider a gluten elimination. gluten elimination will require a much longer period of time before a challenge - 6 months or more possibly - so always hope that dairy is the culprit!
post #107 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbles View Post
Does anyone know how really bad it would be to have a cup of coffee once in awhile while healing the gut? I am dying for coffee. Thoughts?
coffee has been shown experimentally to increase gut permeability but it isn't clear if it is coffee or caffeine.
post #108 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoMe View Post
first, bentonite. I've heard good things, and I'm curious to try it. Anyone have any thoughts? I've read not to take it while nursing, but it's *because* I'm nursing that I'm motivated to take it. Is the precaution just because it's detox and detox+nursing=bad? wouldn't all the toxins get bound up in the clay instead of heading for the milk?
i've heard good things about pascalite clay.

Quote:
second, Brenda Watson's H.O.P.E. program has been on the PBS telethons here. She talks about healing a leaky gut with High fiber (35 g/day), Omega-3's (2g/day), Probiotics (6 billion/day), and enzymes (don't know). Sounds reasonable. basically flush the bad (fiber), don't add more bad (enzymes), replace bad with good (probiotics), and fix a likely deficiency (omega-3's). right?

compare with SCD: SCD is basically kill the bad (starve via no di/poly-saccharides), replace with good (24-hr yogurt), don't irritate further (lots of gelatin, be weary of anything hard to digest.

compare with Rubin and Brasco's Guts and Glory: SCD but limit fruit (sugar), don't be so strict on the grains, but go all traditional foods/maker's diet (easier to digest), and throw in a bunch of supplements.

what do you think are the most important factors? obviously, there are many paths to feeling better/healing. I wonder if there's a trick, or if it's just about being able to follow the plan and then maintain.
i would do a modified SCD. bone broths for their healing powers. high fats/proteins to rebalance one's fat profile - presumably this would boost omega-3 if eating the SCD and/or traditional food style. SCD would be high fibre though i can't speak to the others, they prbably are high fibre as well. probiotics - well, not from a pill but from fermented foods.

supplements... sometimes enzymes are necessary but sometimes they are just an expensive waste of money. i would imagine that IBS might be addressed well and quickly with a combination of SCD and enzymes, and then subsequent reduction in the use of enzymes. CLO and evening primrose oil might be supplements to consider, along with glutamine and MSM. for extended lactating moms, i'd include a cal/mag/zinc supplement as well. supplements should show results within a few months; if no result, then one needs to adjust accordingly.

i've managed to detect differences within as little as a few days (e.g., started glutamine and hives went away pretty quickly; started EPO and ds's eczema remnants cleared up) to a few months (e.g., vitamin B/magnesium was replenished and rebalanced).
post #109 of 254
what does the EPO do?
post #110 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaquitita View Post
what does the EPO do?

EPO helps reduce inflammation.

http://nccam.nih.gov/health/eveningprimrose/

it contains prostaglandins - recommended for use in the latest stage of pregnancy to help ripen the cervix, if i recall correctly, so pregnant mamas should use with caution. prostaglandins also help to reduce inflammation. i recommend perusing http://mdheal.org as Dr. Galland has written about the role of prostaglandins and atopy/allergy (intertwined conditions).
post #111 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluets View Post
coffee has been shown experimentally to increase gut permeability but it isn't clear if it is coffee or caffeine.
Bummer . Thanks for the info. I wonder if cold brew coffee would be different because it is much easier on the stomach. I guess I need to find out more about how the coffee affects the permeability. Hmm.....

I need to look at the teecino. I have some so will check the ingredients. Anyone know more about that and whether it is allowed?
post #112 of 254
Anyone know if starting enzymes could effect the results of upcoming celiac testing?
post #113 of 254

Please wise women I need help figuring out where to begin!!

DS who is almost 6 has just been diagnosed with vision problems, possible dyslexia. He has some attention and behavior issues, and I suspect Sensory Processing Disorder. Celiac disease appears to run in my family, and we will all be getting tested soon, so I don't want to cut out gluten immediately (probably in about a month) in order to get accurate results. I have also noticed that he does seem to be sensitive to food dyes.

So my question is- which diet/s to consider and where to begin?
I've been researching-
SCD
GFCF
Maker's Diet
Feingold Diet
just GF
simply concentrate on traditional foods, elimination

After all my research, the only thing that is clear is that if we tried it all at once, we'd definitely STARVE! LOL

I am thinking of the following:
1. starting with some supplements like enzymes, probiotics, and omegas and the Feingold Diet until DS has an appointment with an excellent alternative doctor end of next month, and see how that goes...

2.Then get him fully tested for food sensitivities/intolerances/allergies, metal toxicity, full stool analysis etc. BTW we just moved back from Africa, so we could have some extra nasty worms, parasites, amoebas, etc.
(Second question, what tests do you all recommend?)

3. After a month on Feingold and testing, possibly start SCD or GFCF depending on test results.

What do you ladies think?? Help, I would really appreciate feedback and advice.
post #114 of 254
I don't think enzymes would affect celiac testing, because it's an immune response, not just a problem digesting wheat.
As far as diet, if you suspect gluten, I would eliminate that first. Unless you really think it will affect testing (I don't think it does, but call first). I have heard that the Feingold program only works on a few, and that the Failsafe plan is more complete (but much harder to follow, especially gluten free). SCD is hard, too, but totally different. It's hard to combine with Failsafe, or even Feingold, because it's so high in salicylates. I don't know.
post #115 of 254

Thoughts?

Ok. I've been reading these threads with a lot of interest. I have been trying to figure out what's going on with my DD, who is almost 4. She doesn't have any external symptoms, like eczema, but she definitely has digestive issues. Briefly, here is what I've noticed:

Distended abdomen (moreso than any of her peers, looks like 3rd world child)
Lots and lots of gas
Loose, though not runny, stools with noticable undigested food particles
Complains of stomach pains right before she has to poop (gas?)
Slight redness around her butt hole (sorry, TMI)
Gets sick often & takes a while to get over colds
Permacongestion

Anyhow, I have suspected food allergies or leaky gut for quite some time. So I plan to have her tested for gluten sensitivity.

My questions are:

1. Do you really think that the stool test for gluten sensitivity (enterolab) is valid? Is there milk test valid? Their gene test? I asked my ped about it and he basically said it was wishful thinking & offered to do the blood test on DD for celiac but said its difficult to diagnose.

2. If she is sensitive to gluten could that, in and of itself, cause leaky gut syndrome? Could it cause some food to not be digested completely? Or does that mean there is something else going on? I assume the undigested food is the result of leaky gut. Could it be indicative of something else?

3. Is there a test for leaky gut?

4. What kind of practitioner is the best kind to help navigate through these issues?

Based on my reading it seems like the best course of action will be:

1. Eliminate wheat (if gluten intolerant)
2. Start probiotics (what strain for a 4 year old?)
3. Move more towards traditional foods/SCD (we already do some stuff)
4. Digestive enzymes
5. CLO
6. Other supplements?
post #116 of 254

book help

I'm in the process of reading this whole thread and the whole Healing the Gut cheat sheet. I'm sorry if this has already been covered.

A friend just recommended the book "Breaking the Vicious Cycle" to me. In looking for it on Amazon, I noticed the same author has a book called "Food and the Gut Reaction" as well.

Can anyone recommend one over the other for me? Should I get both? Is there a lot of overlap in info?

We are all GF at my house. One of my dd's is newly diagnosed with tree nut allergies and sesame allergy. I just found out today (long story) that my 5 year old is dealing with chronic diarrhea, too. I will be seeing our wonderful and very open to alternative meds pediatrician next week. I want to have as much info as possible to help my dd with diarrhea. I'm afraid that dairy will be the thing to go with her *sigh* We use a LOT of dairy.

Anyway, with my situation, can you help me with my reading (besides these great threads ) TIA
post #117 of 254

where are all the seniof HTGers? we need you!

Bunch of questions in these last few posts, including mine. Help please!?!
post #118 of 254
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonymama View Post
Bunch of questions in these last few posts, including mine. Help please!?!
I'm not exactly a senior around here, but I don't feel like doing my reading for accounting so I'll see what I can help with...
Quote:
A friend just recommended the book "Breaking the Vicious Cycle" to me. In looking for it on Amazon, I noticed the same author has a book called "Food and the Gut Reaction" as well.

Can anyone recommend one over the other for me? Should I get both? Is there a lot of overlap in info?
I haven't heard of "Food and the Gut Reaction" but I have BtVC. I was actually hoping for more from it. Most of what's in there, I had already read on the website and/or knew from these threads. I wish I could have gotten it from the library instead but they don't have it.

Quote:
1. Do you really think that the stool test for gluten sensitivity (enterolab) is valid? Is there milk test valid? Their gene test? I asked my ped about it and he basically said it was wishful thinking & offered to do the blood test on DD for celiac but said its difficult to diagnose.
I haven't done it myself, but several on the GFCFNN yahoo group seem to use enterolab for gluten sensitivities

Quote:
2. If she is sensitive to gluten could that, in and of itself, cause leaky gut syndrome? Could it cause some food to not be digested completely? Or does that mean there is something else going on? I assume the undigested food is the result of leaky gut. Could it be indicative of something else?
If I have everything straight in my head, anything that irritates the gut lining can escalate to leaky gut (it's a Vicious Cycle). Gluten *definitely* irritates the lining, so it could easily be the cause. Once the gut leaks, you can get nutrient deficiencies from malabsorption and undigested food (especially sugar/starch) sitting and fermenting in the gut. As far as it indicating something else, all I can think of is low HCl (stomach acid) leading to indigestion. But I'm just a couple of months ahead of you, research-wise, so take that with a grain of salt!

Quote:
3. Is there a test for leaky gut?
yes. you drink a sugar solution (manitol and lactulose?) One you should be absorbing, and one should pass straight through. Then you collect urine for the next 6 hrs, and they see how much of the one you *should* be absorbing made it into the blood and then the urine, and how much of the one you *shouldn't* be absorbing snuck through as well.

Quote:
4. What kind of practitioner is the best kind to help navigate through these issues?
I wish I knew, and I'm looking for one myself! So far, the super-amazing Dr is encouraging, but I'm teaching her while she orders tests for me. The holistic ped focused on dd and ignored my own leaky gut. The dietician had heard of all this, but knows nothing about treating it. My next options are an unlicensed nutritionist who has done all this herself, the other holistic ped, or a well known OMD, but I don't know if he knows anything about leaky gut either.

Quote:
Based on my reading it seems like the best course of action will be:

1. Eliminate wheat (if gluten intolerant)
2. Start probiotics (what strain for a 4 year old?)
3. Move more towards traditional foods/SCD (we already do some stuff)
4. Digestive enzymes
5. CLO
6. Other supplements?
don't forget the other gluten grains (rye, barley and oats). Homemade yogurt is easier and stronger than probiotic supplements if you can do dairy. I'm looking into clay (bentonite/pascalite) right now to help with dysbiosis and detox effects. The other thing I've heard good things about is getting nutrient levels tested so you can address any deficiencies that may be holding you back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonymama
I am thinking of the following:
1. starting with some supplements like enzymes, probiotics, and omegas and the Feingold Diet until DS has an appointment with an excellent alternative doctor end of next month, and see how that goes...
I've heard that failsafe may be better/more comprehensive than feingold, but I haven't really done food chemical research yet. Just want to throw it out there if you hadn't already heard of it. Probiotics are likely foolproof, but again, homemade yogurt is way cheaper, easier and stronger if you're not cutting out dairy (yet).


whew. that's long. now I *must* learn accounting before dd wakes up!
post #119 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by chlobo View Post
1. Eliminate wheat (if gluten intolerant)
2. Start probiotics (what strain for a 4 year old?)
3. Move more towards traditional foods/SCD (we already do some stuff)
4. Digestive enzymes
5. CLO
6. Other supplements?
I'm not senior here but this sounds good to me. I think the red ring around the anus is a pretty classic allergy symptom. I always know that I've eaten something that has disagreed with my son when I spot that, even if there have been no other symptoms yet.
post #120 of 254
Thanks for the help. Two more questions:

Quote:
Quote:
3. Is there a test for leaky gut?
yes. you drink a sugar solution (manitol and lactulose?) One you should be absorbing, and one should pass straight through. Then you collect urine for the next 6 hrs, and they see how much of the one you *should* be absorbing made it into the blood and then the urine, and how much of the one you *shouldn't* be absorbing snuck through as well.
Is this a test done through a lab? Or on your own? What is it called?


and

Is there a test for food sensitivities? Before I try to do an elimination diet with a 4 year old I'd like to have some info to start with.

ETA: Would a gluten intolerance cause the allergy ring around the anus?
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