HTG - Healing the Gut September/October 07 - Page 8

[AutumnMama]

Hello wise Mamas,
I was wondering if anyone can give me any sites or pointers on healing the gut without using any dairy? Perhaps gluten-free as well.

DS2 has had gut issues since birth, and I NEED to get started on something. I had decided a while back to try the SCD, but then discovered that dairy products played a large part in her diet, and we simply cannot do that.

DD is also dairy intolerant (though not to the extent that DS2 is), and I think she may have issues with gluten as well. She has a chronically stuffy nose, and swollen tonsils.

Any advice would be so greatly appreciated. I feel like I've put this off long enough!


Oh, I've also been thinking about getting krankedyanne's (sp?) TF menu mailer, would that be a good thing to do right now, or should I do some sort of intro diet first?

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by AutumnMama

Hello wise Mamas,
I was wondering if anyone can give me any sites or pointers on healing the gut without using any dairy? Perhaps gluten-free as well.

DS2 has had gut issues since birth, and I NEED to get started on something. I had decided a while back to try the SCD, but then discovered that dairy products played a large part in her diet, and we simply cannot do that.

I am kind of confused why you would think that dairy plays a big part in SCD, unless you mean eggs. I am doing the SCD right now. It is dairy-free (again, unless you mean eggs-- it is definitely egg-heavy, at least at my house). Goat milk yogurt is allowed (after the first stage I think), but totally optional-- we're not doing it, not yet anyway. We might try it later. My younger son is very sensitive to dairy, small amounts make him fussy, can't sleep, and moderate amounts make him throw up.

[AutumnMama]

Here is a quote from her intro diet:

Breakfast:
Dry curd cottage cheese (moisten with homemade yogurt)
Eggs (boiled, poached, or scrambled)*
Pressed apple cider or grape juice mixed 1/2 and 1/2 with water. See, SCD™ Legal / Illegal List for more information about allowable juices.
Homemade gelatin made with juice, unflavored gelatin, and sweetener (honey or saccharine)

I haven't actually read the book, I guess I just assumed that the rest would include dairy as well.

I do remember reading (I believe it was on her site) about 24 hr yogurt, and got the impression that it was kind of a big part of the SCD. I'd be very glad to be mistaken though!

[TopazBlueMama]

IMO, the 24 hour yogurt should be a huge part of the SCD, it's the probiotics in it that is a big part of the healing. If you can find an effective way to get probiotics without dairy that is still SCD legal, then that would work.

re: bananas, that's a hard one because many of the bananas never actually have all the green parts go away it seems! Before they get way too ripe to eat, anyway. I know you need to at least have brown spots for it to be ripe, but I'm not sure if there is still starch in there if there is still a bit of green at the top. And no, you don't need to start over, you're still at the beginning!

[Theloose]

SCD and dairy - the SCD is pretty dairy heavy, but it's mostly for the probiotics in the yogurt. www.pecanbread.com is the non-dairy version I think LionTigerBear is talking about. (right?) So yes, it's doable non-dairy.

Most of the gut-healing stuff should be gluten free because wheat can be so hard on so many people.

I don't get the menu mailer, but IIRC, she's GFCF so it would likely be at least a little helpful. It also depends on where you were before starting this path - how comfortable are you with cooking TF?

I'm patiently awaiting nutrient level test results and I think addressing those will be my next focus. I've scrapped the SCD because I *couldn't* eat enough calories in a day. I'm not quite sure why not, just that I was eating coconut oil and honey by the spoonful and suddenly fitting into pre-preg jeans that were too tight up until now. I also got some bentonite from the health drug store but haven't worked up the nerve to try it yet.

Does anyone have good resources/links on the zonulin response?

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by whoMe

SCD and dairy - the SCD is pretty dairy heavy, but it's mostly for the probiotics in the yogurt. www.pecanbread.com is the non-dairy version I think LionTigerBear is talking about. (right?) So yes, it's doable non-dairy.

Yup. Sorry I'm kinda : today, I totally forgot there's dairy in her original diet . . . I recommend doing the pecanbread version . . .

[HerbanGirl]

Thanks for the link to the pecanbread thing, I'll have to give that a look-see. Yesterday I started back on the Dr. Elson Haas (not the SCD Dr. Haas) elimination diet, except I threw my back out and by the end of the day all I wanted was a Chipotle burrito bol with sour cream and cheese included! Yeah, I totally hit that. But today I'm starting fresh and I intend to go 100%. I bought a half-gallon of raw milk and some yogurt (which might even be raw - the ingred says "Fresh jersey cow milk") but I haven't made the 24-hr yogurt yet...maybe tonight or tomorrow afternoon.

How's everyone else doing?

[naturals]

constipation?

Need help with 2 questions-

Do probiotics cause constipation? DD's clock work potty time has changed completely. She currently takes Kirkmans pro gold , Its cultured on inulin of chicory root.What can be done about it/
Another question- Which probiotic is good for clearing thrush. DD's has had it for a a long time now.Do I need to take s. boulardii?

[Runningmommy]

Hi, I have tried skimming through the posts butr maybe you can help me. My NP told me that I have candida based on a blood test. She told me to take diflucan for four weeks while on the "Yeast Connection" diet for 6-8 weeks. Is this the right way to do it? Thanks,
Lisa

[HerbanGirl]

Hi Runningmommy,

I'm new on this forum, so I don't know how much help I can give you. I'm dealing with candida too, and currently feeling very overwhelmed with all the different information and recommendations. I would like to hear how you do on the Diflucan and Yeast Connection diet...I'm slowly phasing out sugar and grains, and I'll see how that helps things. I may also have to give up dairy, but since I'm building for pregnancy I don't want to lose that precious source of Vit A & D and good sat fats, unless I absolutely have to!

[harmonymama]

Help!!! I'm in pain! Natren

I just started Natren's Healthy Trinity dairy powder formula. I gave 1/4 tsp of each to my kids in smoothies for a few days, but then stopped b/c my ds pooped his pants twice which hasn't happened in many years. It wasn't diarrhea.

I took some sips of the other smoothies I made and felt a lot of rumbling in my colon, but that was it. Today I served myself a full dose this morning (1/2 tsp of each), but within 5 minutes I started feeling significant discomfort, stomach pain. I just ignored it all day figuring it was a minor reaction, but by evening my severe discomfort/pain had intensified through my whole digestive system, with occasional sharp, shooting pains. I've just been figuring it is a temporary cleansing reaction, but it continue to get worse, and I can't lie down or sleep. I ate salad for dinner, along with one whole made falafel ball (probably a bad idea), and I've just been trying to drink tons of water. What do I do? How can I get rid of this great bacteria, at least temporarily. This is way too much for me!! Lemon, milk, vit C, more ruffage, prune juice? What? I have no idea what to do. Maybe it will be better in the morning, but WTF? Has anyone ever heard of this reaction? Am I having a possible allergic reaction? I'm even feeling feverish tonight and my nose is stuffy. It is conceivable that I have a virus or something on top of the supplement. DS had a frog in his throat tonight, but I've never felt stomach pain like this. This is not nausea, but pain.

BTW
I ate 1/2 tsp of each in a smoothy with rice milk, banana, kiwi, and kale. My kids ate the same smoothy minus probiotics, and they appear to be fine.

p.s. I've never been aware of any dairy sensitivity, but it is conceivable.

Help, please send any and all ideas. I don't want to end up in the hospital. BTW, I did call Natren and spoke to a guy who didn't seem to know what he was talking about and gave me no suggestions.

Help, what do I do? I don't want to end up in the hospital over this.

One more question: does anyone know could this be a yeast reaction? If so, I've got a serious problem!

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by harmonymama

I just started Natren's Healthy Trinity dairy powder formula. I gave 1/4 tsp of each to my kids in smoothies for a few days, but then stopped b/c my ds pooped his pants twice which hasn't happened in many years. It wasn't diarrhea.

I took some sips of the other smoothies I made and felt a lot of rumbling in my colon, but that was it. Today I served myself a full dose this morning (1/2 tsp of each), but within 5 minutes I started feeling significant discomfort, stomach pain. I just ignored it all day figuring it was a minor reaction, but by evening my severe discomfort/pain had intensified through my whole digestive system, with occasional sharp, shooting pains. I've just been figuring it is a temporary cleansing reaction, but it continue to get worse, and I can't lie down or sleep. I ate salad for dinner, along with one whole made falafel ball (probably a bad idea), and I've just been trying to drink tons of water. What do I do? How can I get rid of this great bacteria, at least temporarily. This is way too much for me!! Lemon, milk, vit C, more ruffage, prune juice? What? I have no idea what to do. Maybe it will be better in the morning, but WTF? Has anyone ever heard of this reaction? Am I having a possible allergic reaction? I'm even feeling feverish tonight and my nose is stuffy. It is conceivable that I have a virus or something on top of the supplement. DS had a frog in his throat tonight, but I've never felt stomach pain like this. This is not nausea, but pain.

BTW
I ate 1/2 tsp of each in a smoothy with rice milk, banana, kiwi, and kale. My kids ate the same smoothy minus probiotics, and they appear to be fine.

p.s. I've never been aware of any dairy sensitivity, but it is conceivable.

Help, please send any and all ideas. I don't want to end up in the hospital. BTW, I did call Natren and spoke to a guy who didn't seem to know what he was talking about and gave me no suggestions.

Help, what do I do? I don't want to end up in the hospital over this.

One more question: does anyone know could this be a yeast reaction? If so, I've got a serious problem!

I'd recommend slippery elm bark or pascalite or bentonite clay for helping stop the reaction. It's possible that you just took too much and your body needs time to adjust with smaller doses, or that it's the wrong probiotic for you. What strains are in the Healthy Trinity probiotic? I took a probiotic that contained acidophilus, and probably a couple of other strains, when I was pregnant with my DD and had a little bit of stomach upset with those for a few days. I think it must be related to the strain of probiotic as I've taken way stronger probiotics than those since then and never noticed any problems.

[Pookietooth]

Just curious -- why did you use rice milk in the smoothie if you don't suspect a dairy sensitivity? I have never heard of such intense die-off symptoms, but everyone is different.

Originally Posted by harmonymama

I just started Natren's Healthy Trinity dairy powder formula. I gave 1/4 tsp of each to my kids in smoothies for a few days, but then stopped b/c my ds pooped his pants twice which hasn't happened in many years. It wasn't diarrhea.

I took some sips of the other smoothies I made and felt a lot of rumbling in my colon, but that was it. Today I served myself a full dose this morning (1/2 tsp of each), but within 5 minutes I started feeling significant discomfort, stomach pain. I just ignored it all day figuring it was a minor reaction, but by evening my severe discomfort/pain had intensified through my whole digestive system, with occasional sharp, shooting pains. I've just been figuring it is a temporary cleansing reaction, but it continue to get worse, and I can't lie down or sleep. I ate salad for dinner, along with one whole made falafel ball (probably a bad idea), and I've just been trying to drink tons of water. What do I do? How can I get rid of this great bacteria, at least temporarily. This is way too much for me!! Lemon, milk, vit C, more ruffage, prune juice? What? I have no idea what to do. Maybe it will be better in the morning, but WTF? Has anyone ever heard of this reaction? Am I having a possible allergic reaction? I'm even feeling feverish tonight and my nose is stuffy. It is conceivable that I have a virus or something on top of the supplement. DS had a frog in his throat tonight, but I've never felt stomach pain like this. This is not nausea, but pain.

BTW
I ate 1/2 tsp of each in a smoothy with rice milk, banana, kiwi, and kale. My kids ate the same smoothy minus probiotics, and they appear to be fine.

p.s. I've never been aware of any dairy sensitivity, but it is conceivable.

Help, please send any and all ideas. I don't want to end up in the hospital. BTW, I did call Natren and spoke to a guy who didn't seem to know what he was talking about and gave me no suggestions.

Help, what do I do? I don't want to end up in the hospital over this.

One more question: does anyone know could this be a yeast reaction? If so, I've got a serious problem!

[harmonymama]

I actually did go to the ER today after 24 hours of increasing stomach pain. They didn't do much except rehydrate me, but thank God I am feeling much better tonight.

The more I think about it, I think the probiotics may have just brought it on/speeded it up/intensified it or something like that. The whole family seems to be a little under the weather and complaining of stomach pain, though nothing like mine. Hmmm..

Nevertheless, I'm going to wait a while before starting probiotics again, and maybe try a different strain- this was acidophilus, bifidus, and bulgaricus. Sorry I got the wrong name. It is actually the Healthy Start package, but the same idea as Healthy Trinity.

Answering question about rice milk. I've read so much about the problematic nature of ultra pasteurized milk lately that I am trying to cut back, and get my kids used to substitutes. I'm also bought it for making a cake that one of DS's classmates with a dairy sensitivity can eat. At this point I am still giving the kids yogurt and natural raw cheeses, but we are going to get some allergy testing soon, and then we may even decide to do a GFCF diet, or another elimination diet to test our sensitivity to dairy among other things. Just because I haven't been aware of reactions doesn't necessarily mean we aren't sensitive.

[MarineWife]

Hi. I'd like to join kind of late, if I can. I posted my own thread but no one answered me. I'm 4 months PP, breastfeeding and feel sick all the time. If I don't eat, I feel sick. When I eat, I feel sick. I have constant gas and what I would consider not normal poops. My breastfeeding ds seems to have a dairy sensitivity so I've been trying to cut that out. I've just signed up to try the Maker's Diet. I need something that tells me exactly what to do and when so I thought the Maker's Diet would be good since it gives me a weekly menu and shopping list. I don't think I'll be able to follow it exactly. I know I can't get all the organic, free range and grass fed foods. I've read a little about making my own yogurt and fermented vegies but that seems to overwhelming for me right now. I'm just trying to figure out how to make these beef and chicken stocks from the Maker's Diet. I've never done anything like that before. I don't think I can do the yogurts and kefirs anyway since I'm eliminating dairy. I did see something about coconut milk yogurt, though.

Someone asked a while back about foamy or bubbly poop in an ebf child. I think the question is really old but I didn't see an answer so I wanted to give one. I have an oversupply issue and one of the problems with that can be a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance. If baby gets too much foremilk and not enough hingmilk, it can cause foamy and green poops.

[mtn.mama]

Hi MarineWife,
Sorry to hear you're not well while your husband is gone... are you taking probiotics and using food enzymes? I don't know anything about the Makers diet. My 12 week old daughter is sensitive to my breastmilk too, when I have any overt or hidden cow dairy, wheat or sugar. I had diarrhea through my entire pregnancy and am just now getting back to normal. I really think that using an elimination diet to figure out what not to eat, and starting enzymes and probiotics has made the difference. I hope you find a way to feel better-
Lisa

[Theloose]

I WANT PIZZA!!!

but i'm gluten/dairy/soy/corn/lamb/possibly nut-free right now. and i'm sick.

[Theloose]

ok, so my gut is doing better. i can tell by poop quality and transit time. i've scrapped the scd, and am instead focusing on whole foods, minimizing illegal scd foods, and lots of fiber. i've still got a bit to go.

i'm overwhelmed. i think dd is reacting to more and more foods. i want it to STOP!

i'm tired and sick. and worried about my nutrition. and haven't gotten my nutrient level test results back yet. and the house is a mess. i feel like complaining. blah.

...thanks for listening...

[mtn.mama]

I had PIZZA today- with brown rice flour crust and goat milk mozzerella! Can you do goat dairy?

[Pookietooth]

Wow, I just looked up Natren Healthy Trinity, and it's $150 a bottle! How expensive can it get! Why is it so pricey?