HTG - Healing the Gut September/October 07 - Page 5

[chilliepepper]

Originally Posted by newcastlemama

I just want to encourage you to make changes slowly. It is very overwhelming. It is taking me 18 months to get to where I am doing all this stuff. I would switch what you already eat. For example--when you run out of bread then start buying sprouted bread (good price at Trader Joes). Dairy products--start buying butter, buy some plain whole milk yogurt, find some raw milk. I think these should help with the digestion issues too. Locate some kefir grains to start fermenting the milk to further heal digestion..I think 2 c of 24 hour fermemnted kefir has 5 TRIllion becteria. Way more than any pill and cheaper! Start finding some good eggs. Keep things simple. I focus on buying the best animal products I can afford starting with dairy (which is the most important thing to buy organic IMO). I don't buy organic produce unless it is very reasonably priced that day.

We are here to help too. Head over to Traditonal foods for food questions as well.
Jen

This is good stuff; thanks for the tips.

So about bread: I do have a grain mill and have been wondering what people mean when they say to soak your grains. Can someone give me instructions for what kind of grain to get for making bread, and then how to soak it? Is there a special recipe I need to use to make the bread? We don't have Trader Joe's in our area : I'm sure they have sprouted bread at Whole Foods but probably not at a price I want to pay. Can I make my own sprouted bread?

I do buy butter...and we eat whole milk plain yogurt (except when we're doing dairy elimination, like now for example). I was thinking about making my own yogurt, but wasn't quite ready to go the raw milk route just yet. Would homemade yogurt made from pasteurized whole milk still be better than commercial whole milk yogurt?

Kefir...I guess I need to go reread NT about that. I still have no idea what it is.

Yah...looks like I need to start frequenting the NT thread as well LOL!

Thanks again.

[Theloose]

soaking - whole grains have phytic acid, which inhibits your absorption of minerals like iron, zinc, phosphorus, etc. whole grains also have phytase, an enzyme that breaks down the phytic acid. soaking your whole grains activates the phytase, which deactivates the phytic acid and makes the minerals available for you to digest. freshly ground grains have much more phytase than flours that have been stored - even just for a month. Typical soaking times are on the order of 7 hours.
www.rebuild-from-depression.com has an e-course on phytic acid with lots of good info.

sprouting - also gets rid of the phytic acid, and increases nutrients as well. I know vit C for sure, can't remember what else. you can do it, but it's kinda labor-intensive.

bread - whole wheat sourdough from freshly ground wheat berries is the simplest to make at home. it's good because the sourdough has a long rise time, and the rising time counts as soaking time - so there's no need to pre-soak your flour. You can use other grains as well, but wheat is likely what you're used to, and it's easy to work with because of the gluten. Other grains with gluten are rye and barley.
you can definitely make your own sprouted bread, but I haven't before, so I can't help you there.

yogurt - anything homemade will likely have more probiotic bacteria than what you can buy in the store. mostly because it's fresher, and you can control how long it cultures for - longer means more bacteria. it's also cheaper, and really easy once you figure it out!

kefir - this is another way to culture milk, similar to yogurt. the biggest differences are that 1) you need grains to get started and 2) it can be done at room temp - so no need to figure out warming spots!

[newcastlemama]

Definately make your yogurt and kefir at home and let it ferment for 24 or more hours. They are the ultimate gut healer and allow you to get in TRIllions of probiotics cheap.

http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/co...onspiracy.html

. Homemade yogurt that is fermented for 24 hours, as recommended in the book Breaking the Vicious Cycle, will have an average concentration of 3 billion cfu/mL of yogurt. What does this mean? Well, if you were to eat a small bowl (500 ml) of 24 hour fermented homemade yogurt, you would receive 1.5 trillion beneficial bacteria - 100 times more bacteria than a 15 billion capsule.
Furthermore, freshly made kefir can have an average microbial count as high as 10 billion cfu/ml. This includes a mixture of various bacteria and yeast strains. This means that a 500 ml glass of homemade kefir could contain as many as 5 trillion beneficial microorganisms or even more!

(bold mine. 500 ml=2cups)

I also add the bacteria (probiotic) strain "L.reuteri" to my yogurt (I break open a probiotic cap and put the powder in it before I ferment it. This stain is shown to colonize very well in the digestive tract. I also sometimes add other bacteria strains so there are lots of benefiots to making the dairy ferments yourself!
Jen

[tempestjewel]

Originally Posted by chilliepepper

When I read about all the raw milk, enzymes, probiotics, etc. etc. the first question that comes to mind is "where would I get all this stuff?" and the second is "how would I afford it?" I mean honestly, our food budget doesn't really even allow for organic produce, let alone raw milk at $10 a gallon!

Gradual change is definitely the way you go. A few months ago I posted to this tribe with the same sentiment

My DD was very ill, suffering horribly from eczema and seemed to be sensitive/allergic to EVERYTHING she was eating. I knew next to nothing about gut function or its role in health. We spent over $2K and saw 3 doctors before we found a naturopath who was persistent enough to get to the root of the problem (and we're still solving it). I say this, because although the food costs and the supplement cost can be overwhelming, it is probably MUCH cheaper then paying for healthcare costs that stem from long-term gut issues.

Several things that helped me in the food department: we started culturing veggies first (spending maybe $2-$3 a ferment), then I got a kombucha scoby from a mama on the Traditional Foods board (there is a sticky there of people with cultures who are willing to share) and that mama also sent me some milk kefir grains (I only had to pay shipping). Once the cultures are going, they are very inexpensive and very nutritious. And the great thing about kombucha and kefir is that with care they self-propogate, so they are good indefinitely, which is VERY economical!

Also, use your local library. I was able to get all of the recommended books on the cheat sheet by requesting them through interlibrary loan. Digestive Wellness, Digestive Wellness for Children, and Bacteria for Breakfast were all REALLY helpful to me at understanding just how critical it is to maintain gut health. Wild Fermentation has lots of info about lots of different cultures. The Maker's Diet was the book that first got me really interested in all this stuff.

We did join a CSA (community supported agriculture) and found one in our area that delivers. So, I pay $25 a week for a nice box of fresh from the farm produce. May seem expensive, but I oftentimes would run to the store "just for lettuce" and come back having spent $60 on things we "needed" We also were able to find a local farm and bought 1/4 grass-fed beef in a cow share and a whole lamb. I now have meat in my freezer for at least the next 6-12 months that is much healthier then what you can get at the supermarket, and it was much cheaper. We do have a chest freezer so it certainly helps there.

I do buy raw goats milk for $16 a gallon, but it takes us about 10ish days to go through it because I ferment it all into kefir. Kefir keeps MUCH longer then milk. We don't eat cereal and because DD still can't have dairy we don't cook with it, so it isn't a big expense for us. You don't have to do anything 100%- perhaps start by buying raw milk every other grocery trip. Or, just use it for drinking but use other stuff in baking for the time being.

Learning how to perpare foods to bring out the best possible nutrition will help everyone in your family whether they have gut issues or not. And it really is an investment in your future health. Its not something you have to figure out overnight or instantly convert to. So I guess the one thing I'd advise you to do is take a deep breath! We are all here to support each other in this journey!

[LionTigerBear]

Hi everyone. I haven't read this whole thread yet. I just found the reference to the SCD diet on the Curing Cavities thread and JUST NOW realized that THIS thread could answer some of my questions.

So my story, as quickly as I can: I have been feeling worse and worse with each pregnancy-- three so far and two babies. Now I feel worse than ever. My littlest one is 10 months old and I am dragging, fatigued, exhausted most days, and my back and joints alway hurts. I cut out gluten and corn a couple of months ago and it was a huge difference-- I could sleep better since then and I've had more energy, but not enough. I know there's much more I need to do to heal.

My older son is the one I'm really worried about, though. HE was born long and skinny and in his first baby portrait he looked so skinny and sickly that I threw them away, they were just not attractive. : He is such a handsome little boy now, but he has slowly fallen off the growth chart, he used to off the charts in his height and now at age three he is in the 25th percentile for height. This is not an in-between-growth-spurts thing, it has been a steady decline. He has big dark circles under his eyes much of the time and he usually says he is too tired to climb the stairs to our second floor apartment. He used to show some slightly autistic behavior and had a lot of trouble sleeping, and would wake at night screaming and crying in pain but unable to say what was wrong-- we even took him to the ER once-- but when I took him off of gluten and pasteurized dairy (the latter of which he had only ever had a little) a couple of months ago, he showed marked improvement in those areas, so that's good. But then he became addicted to Bob's Red Mill rice "farina" hot cereal. It was almost all he would eat all day. I finally weaned him off of it over the last couple of days! YAYYYYY!!!! This is BIG.

Today he asked me for broccoli. : This from the PICKIEST eater in the WORLD.

My problem is, he still lives off of Applegate Farm hot dogs and Applegate Farm turkey bologna. (The natural kind.) How to wean him off of these (to move us toward adopting the SCD diet) I don't know. He won't eat any other kind of meat.

I also don't know how to get CLO or any other supplement into him. He only drinks water, won't touch anything else. Yet. The broccoli thing showed me that there may yet be hope.

A little TMI: I had tried the SCD diet for one day and woke up weak, HUNGRY, and incredibly dizzy. I got my dh to wake up and get me some organic juice and then after drinking the juice I was vomitting. Some activated charcoal and raw honey got me feeling better.

Anyway, now I'm a little scared top try the diet again. I know I need to plan my approach carefully and be very prepared. So I'm here to try to learn as much as I can until I feel ready to try the SCD. I'm tired of feeling so TIRED, ACHEY, and OLD all the time when I am only 24.

OH, BTW, we have been kind of dong WAP/NT/TF for a few years except I am always so tired and low energy I don't make most stuff very well, just bone broth, that's about it. We depended on the Applegate Farms lunchmeats way too much. And I have a really hard time remembering or wanting to take supplements, too, especially CLO, so that's something I'll have to work on, too. I can see taking it with some veggie juice, but I don't think that's allowed in the first stage of SCD. ?

Anyway, any pointers would be great. Thanks everyone!

[LionTigerBear]

What are the differences between the SCD and Sally Fallon's HR diet? I am wondering which one would be better for me and my son?

From the Cheat Sheet thread:

The "Health Recovery" diet in the book is not for weight loss. It is for healing a number of autoimmune conditions including serious or not so serious digestive disorders:
Recovery from surgery, life-threatening illness, debilitated weak condition, chemotherapy, malnutrition.
Adrenal Weakness/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Allergies/Hay Fever
Asthma
ADD
Constipation
Diabetes and Insulin Resistance
Emotional Problems: Anxiety, Depression, Mood Swings
Fungal Infections/Candida
Gallbladder Ailments
Hormonal Imbalances/Women's Diseases
Hypoglycemia
Immune System/Autoimmune Disorders
IBS/Colitis/Crohn's Disease
Skin Problems: Eczema, Dry Skin, Wrinkles, Scaly Patches, Hair Loss
Thyroid Imbalance
Viral Infections: Epstein-Barr, Herpes, HIV/AIDS
http://www.eatfatlosefat.com/test-healthrecovery.html

The HR diet is based on a lot of coconut oil and coconut milk, lacto-fermented foods and beverages (kefir sodas and yogurt), and lots of homemade bone broth. They recommend raw milk and kefir/yogurt but there is a high calcium milk alternative made from coconut milk and KAL dolomite powder if you are allergic to dairy. And the fermented foods and kefir sodas are great dairy free sources of probiotics.

Also includes eggs, meat, liver (or just dessicated liver tablets), fish, cod liver oil, high vitamin butter oil, animal fats, vegetables, natural vitamin C from amla or acerola powder and only one serving of soaked grains/day. Swedish bitters or apple cider vinegar for liver and digestive support.

Thanks a bunch, anyone!!!!

[LionTigerBear]

BASIC SUGGESTED OUTLINE:

1. Digestive enzymes with meals.
2. Enzymes between meals, esp. proteases and cellulases.
3. Yogurt/kefir/fermented foods/probiotics.
4. Cut out foods you determine that you cannot digest or are allergic to.
5. Add nutrient dense superfoods and good quality supplements.
6. Educate yourself on what is really a healthy diet... nutrient deficiencies can in themselves lead to many digestive issues.
7. If all the above doesn't work, investigate alternatives: anti fungals/bacterials, homeopathy, etc.

Can anyone tell me what a basic day's meal/snack/supplement plan actually looks like? Especially for a little one. Thanks!

I also have questions about B. infantis for my little 3yo and also on the rotation diet. How are these things implemented exactly, in relation to one of the healing diets? And has anyone dealt with an extremely picky, stubborn little boy (or girl) who will only eat a very few things and will go on a hunger strike otherwise? Does the pickiness go away on its own and what do you do in the meantime?

I am still wondering how on earth I am going to do this! :

[applezz]

Hi LionTigerBear, I am not a Dr. but I just wanted to ask, if you had been tested for Rheumatoid Arthritis? A friend of mine has that, and her symptoms were very similar.

I am very new to the whole eating for optimal health and healing, and I am a HUGE supporter of eating to stop inflamation. Soundsl ike you have some kind in you rjoints. I dont remember where I read it, but I read that the SC diet is not the best one for arthritis. Perhaps try the HR one?

Again not a Dr. but I would be cautious about doing an extreme diet change while pg. Perhaps try eliminaing just one thing at a time, for a couple of weeks, but I would run it by your Dr. first, in case the joint thing coudl be some unusual pregnancy side effect?

Hope you find some improvement soon.

Applezz

[newcastlemama]

Originally Posted by LionTigerBear

What are the differences between the SCD and Sally Fallon's HR diet? I am wondering which one would be better for me and my son?

I think the main differnece is that the HR diet allows for small amounts of properly prepared grains and maple syryp. I think the HR diet is excellent. I drink the kefir sodas everyday and my 3yo loves them. I think this diet could be great for your your symptoms--it sounds like you could have thyriod or adrenal problems.


Can anyone tell me what a basic day's meal/snack/supplement plan actually looks like? Especially for a little one. Thanks! Here is a sample--

B: digestive enzymes and a teaspoon of CLO
Whole milk kefir smoothie (can add egg yolks, coconut oil, fruit, flax seed, honey)

L: enzymes
salad with chicken salad (with homemade mayo) and a glass of water kefir/kombucha or other ferented beverage

S:enzymes soaked nuts, fruit, raw cheese....

D:enzymes
Beef broth based beef stew. Maybe add a fermented vegetable or beverage.

For kids--my son likes soups, yogurt smoothies, sanwiches, avocadoes, cheese and rice crackers, nuts and nut butters, bananas, liver.....My ds does not seem to have health issues so I just give him CLO as s supplement.

I tend to do better on high fat/low carb. I have read that is good for many of the issues you are having. I had severe PPD and so many other issues likie yours that were resolved with high fat/lowcarb TF diet, addressing nutrient defiences, and fixing my adrenals with some supplments and destressing. I find I do really well on a more hunter-gatherer diet of meat/bone broth/organ meats, produce and fat.

Jen

[LionTigerBear]

Thank you so much for your answers.

I have to clarify that I am not pregnant, I had my first son and then a late miscarriage and then my second son, so that's how the three pregnancies two babies thing adds up. I am breastfeeding my ten-month-old. Should have stated that better.

We are already doing better just from cutting the rice cereal out of our diets. I've been letting the three year old eat almost as much really raw honey as he wants to (some limitation because it is very expensive)-- do you think this is okay? I have been eating lots of rich bone broth soup, but my son won't touch it. He is eating more raw cheese now, and lots and lots of scrambled eggs.

About the HR diet-- I am going to order the book-- however, I am wondering, will it cure our/my gluten-intolerance like the SCD is supposed to be able to? Anyone know or have an opinion on that?

Thanks, everyone!

[newcastlemama]

Originally Posted by LionTigerBear

About the HR diet-- I am going to order the book-- however, I am wondering, will it cure our/my gluten-intolerance like the SCD is supposed to be able to? Anyone know or have an opinion on that?

Thanks, everyone!

I don't think they make any claims of healing guten intolerance, but the diet could. That is what makes the healing journey so frustrating sometimes--the trial and error. What works for me may not work for you and vice versa. IMO, the HR diet will heal the gut to at least a some degree because it--can heal nutrient defiencies which can cause gut issues, uses butter and coconut which are healing for the gut, uses lacto-fermented foods to aid digestion and repopulate the intestinal tract of good bacteria. Lots of good things and the food is YUM. The diet is definately healthy so it won't be hurting you.

Maybe just try the HR diet for 6 months and see how it goes. (I would not eat gluten during that time though. Try gluten at the end of 6 months and see how you feel). Then revaluate and see if you need something more strict (like grain-free, honey/maple-free ect). I don't remeber if you had candida issues and in that case I would totally cut out sweetners, except maybe stevia.

Jen

[bubbles]

I am going to order the HT book but noticed their are two editions. Is there any additional info in the 2006 paperback vs. the 2004 hardcover or is it just a later release as a paperback? I just want to make sure I get all the info!

I am doing an anti inflammatory/gut healing diet through my dr. but think this will help me even further.

[Theloose]

ok, i am definitely noticing changes - both in myself (die-off/cleaning out) and in dd (happier, with normal poop! time for the happy poop dance!)

but this is supposed to be a loooong process, no? so what are you doing to gauge how well you're progressing? How do you know/decide/declare/guess when you're healed? And what kind of timeframe are we guessing here?

[newcastlemama]

Originally Posted by whoMe

ok, i am definitely noticing changes - both in myself (die-off/cleaning out) and in dd (happier, with normal poop! time for the happy poop dance!)

but this is supposed to be a loooong process, no? so what are you doing to gauge how well you're progressing? How do you know/decide/declare/guess when you're healed? And what kind of timeframe are we guessing here?

That's great!

I am not sure of the time because I would imagine it depends on the severity of the problems. You jut experiment--for example, if you are trying to heal from dairy intolerance and you try some and have bad symptoms, more healing is needed. Same if you had candida and you get a flare up after trying fruit.

I am doing really well also, but I thinki t is because I really worked on my health for the past 1.5 years and this phase in healing is the icing on the cake for me.

Jen

[PapayaVagina]

Need to sub.

Has anyone had a little one whose gut got a lot better once they started solids? We had lots of issues with dd but then once she started solids and I was able to get more probiotics into her she seems to be doing so much better.

She is 11 months old and I was hoping to start her on some CLO soon. A while back in another thread someone told me a good brand for kids - could I get that again. I know that they said Nordic Naturals didn't have nearly enough. I need to get on some higher quality supplements myself as well (have only been taking TJs).

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by PapayaVagina

Has anyone had a little one whose gut got a lot better once they started solids? We had lots of issues with dd but then once she started solids and I was able to get more probiotics into her she seems to be doing so much better.

Very interesting! What kinds of solids did you start her on? How did you get the probiotics in?

We're doing the sad poop shuffle over here I think she's reacting to the yogurt, but I'm not sure. I've cut it out, and will check again once things clear up again.

I saw the dietician my dr recommended, and she wasn't all that helpful - couldn't test for any nutrient levels at all! but she was concerned about my calcium and B vitamins from being off of dairy and grains. What are other people doing about those?

And my dr is so cool! She called me yesterday, just to check in, and she went ahead and did the paperwork to get me tested for anything that she could - so i'll soon have results for iron, zinc, b12(?), thyroid levels, and possibly more. Yay!

[PapayaVagina]

[QUOTE=whoMe;9264763]Very interesting! What kinds of solids did you start her on? How did you get the probiotics in?
QUOTE]

We skipped over purees and have done self feeding. Mostly started her out with fruits which totally constipated her but then started giving her more variety and once I started giving her some Nancy's yogurt and mixing in her probiotics with it her poos got more regular and she seems to be digesting a lot better now. I was really nervous with anything dairy because she'd had reactions to it previously but so far so good with it. We never did well with her sucking the probiotics off of my fingers because she was biting me constantly and I forgot to give it to her sometimes. Plus, I always felt like I lost a lot of the dose as well just trying to get it in her. I'm going to start doing kefir again soon w/raw milk and am crossing my fingers that she'll take it as well

[Theloose]

We started with self feeding at 6 months, but have been going SUPER slow because of all the sensitivities. I'm starting to feel like she *needs* purees, though, because while she'll grab the apple and take bites, she doesn't know what to do with the food once it's in her mouth, and then if she doesn't just gag it all out/throw up, then the few pieces she actually swallows end up unchanged out the other end... I figure that can't be good for her delicate digestive system!

anyone have any thoughts on the easy-to-digest aspect of purees for starter foods?

[Theloose]

TMI:
anyone know anything about foamy poop in an essentially ebf 9mo?
we're talking a bit of watery poop, mixed with gas - makes bubbly poop.

could this be a sign of yeast? or just random - that what happens when those two combine? (this isn't new, it almost always happens after she's been reacting to something)

[formerluddite]

howdy all, been subbing for ages (dec 06), but rarely post now.

for those wanting to get probiotics into babies not eating solids yet, i had success mixing the powder in a bit of water, then spoon feeding. she'd suck it off the spoon, even as early as 3 mos. i was mixing it up for the then 3yo to drink, so whatever i didn't get into her, i'd give the big girl, or drink myself.

good luck to all!