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Why do people feel the need to justify themselves (re: tv) - Page 5

post #81 of 112

Advertising

This is so interesting. I'm new here (as is my 3wk old daughter to the world), and haven't read through all the TV threads here so my apologies if this is something people address all the time.

I would probably add justifications, though I would prefer calling them qualifications, to the television watching I would allow a child (I assume with my child, but when I was a live-in nanny I practiced this with my ward).

Unlike a few of the posters in this thread, I do see a significant difference between DVDs and broadcast television. That's because my fear isn't neglect; my main fear/concern about television is in regard to exposure to advertising, not necessarily the show itself. I worked in advertising in my early years and grew to despise it, believing that its hegemonic purpose is to make us unquestioning consumers and leave us feeling want and dissatisfaction. I believe that advertising is pervasive and seductive and that companies continuously pour money into it because it really works.

Stanford University News Service
Quote:
Numerous studies have shown that young children are unable to understand that advertising, product placement and co-branding with popular toys are meant to get them to choose one product over another. For them, "truth in advertising" has a very literal meaning.
Advertising and marketing is brainwashing, and I feel that I'm responsible for choosing how brainwashed a child under my care becomes.

One of the studies that really stuck with me recently was done by Thomas Robinson, a professor of pediatrics at Stanford University:

Quote:
The study included three McDonald's menu items — hamburgers, chicken nuggets and french fries — and store-bought milk or juice and carrots. Children got two identical samples of each food on a tray, one in McDonald's wrappers or cups and the other in plain, unmarked packaging. The kids were asked if they tasted the same or if one was better. (Some children didn't taste all the foods.)

McDonald's-labelled samples were the clear favourites. French fries were the biggest winner; almost 77 per cent said the labelled fries tasted best while only 13 per cent preferred the others.

Fifty-four per cent preferred McDonald's-wrapped carrots versus 23 per cent who liked the plain-wrapped sample. The only results not statistically clear-cut involved the hamburgers, with 29 kids choosing McDonald's-wrapped burgers and 22 choosing the unmarked ones.
If you just take a scan down the list of Dr. Robinson's recent journal articles and studies you'll see the remarkable connection between commercial viewing and food preferences of preschoolers, as well as product preference.

So, I think making a qualification between DVD and broadcast television viewing is perfectly valid.

Solomon
post #82 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenly View Post
Why are people so worried about what other people think? If you want your kids to watch tv then let them. I guarantee you will enjoy parenting a lot more if you stop letting other people make you feel guilty about really stupid things.
There is an easy answer to that question. This board is about Natural Family Living. Television is not exactly what some might call a "natural" way to entertain one's child. In fact, many doctors and educators claim that for a very small child, it is most unnatural and unhealthy.

Caroline (whose three year old now watches the French version of Franklin the Turtle every evening at 19h00, while Mommy makes supper)
post #83 of 112
Advertising... *shrugs*

I know all the *evils* of course. At the same time I would wager to say that the children who didn't choose the McD wrappers in the above study didn't do so because they weren't exposed to ads, but because they probably had parents who talked to them about such things.... as we plan to.

And truthfully, who cares if my child wants things that she sees on TV? I want things I see -- not just on TV, on MDC, on someone else (like a cool t-shirt) or things I hear about through the grapevine... it doesn't mean I am obligated to buy it ...

Also, why is it that certain brands of diapers go for more on the trading post -- or you can go into the natural living reviews section of MDC and hear certain brand names over and over and over? Is marketing only "evil" when it is McDonalds or do *crunchy* products like Burts Bees and the like count?

I want an i-phone. Good luck affording it right now... but it looks like the coolest sh!t I have ever seen ... I won't compromise my morals for it (steal or take from our family funds), I won't expect anyone else to buy it for me.. .and if I never get it... I will live and I will continue to be happy as a clam. Certain products enhance my happiness or bring me enjoyment, but they aren't the core of my happiness.... and I doubt they ever will be for dd ---

My daughter knows how to be happy without products... she recognizes produts in stores and such but it has never been an issue -- more recognition than actual desiring of it --- but if she sees something she thinks looks cool on TV, no whoop...

DH and I are very knowledgable in the tricks of the trade regarding advertising. We just don't think it is the big bad wolf that will eat you (like most people do). We don't think it is ethical in a lot of cases, or even clever but we know we always have a choice whether to buy into it or not. Sometimes we do (i-phone ) , most times we don't.
post #84 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatbaby View Post
I think the thing that people don't realize when discussing TV is that it is addictive. We live in a society where we can talk openly about alcohol being addictive, or food, or heck even the internet. But nobody will admit TV is.


Here is an interesting read from Scientific America:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?art...A8809EC588EEDF

and another read...
http://www.turnoffyourtv.com/healthe...addiction.html

:
meh

when I didn't have a tv I drank and smoked pot a whole lot more.

Just because you don't watch tv doesn't mean you are using your time to do something productive.

FTR, we rarely watch commercials because we DVR everything we watch.
post #85 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain crunchy View Post
We don't think it is ethical in a lot of cases, or even clever but we know we always have a choice whether to buy into it or not. Sometimes we do (i-phone ) , most times we don't.
Hmmm... interesting. So, what evidence could ever convince you that your choices aren't as flexible as you might think they are?

Real question, not trying to bait you.

Solomon
post #86 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain crunchy View Post
Advertising... *shrugs*

I know all the *evils* of course. At the same time I would wager to say that the children who didn't choose the McD wrappers in the above study didn't do so because they weren't exposed to ads, but because they probably had parents who talked to them about such things.... as we plan to.

And truthfully, who cares if my child wants things that she sees on TV? I want things I see -- not just on TV, on MDC, on someone else (like a cool t-shirt) or things I hear about through the grapevine... it doesn't mean I am obligated to buy it ...

Also, why is it that certain brands of diapers go for more on the trading post -- or you can go into the natural living reviews section of MDC and hear certain brand names over and over and over? Is marketing only "evil" when it is McDonalds or do *crunchy* products like Burts Bees and the like count?

I want an i-phone. Good luck affording it right now... but it looks like the coolest sh!t I have ever seen ... I won't compromise my morals for it (steal or take from our family funds), I won't expect anyone else to buy it for me.. .and if I never get it... I will live and I will continue to be happy as a clam. Certain products enhance my happiness or bring me enjoyment, but they aren't the core of my happiness.... and I doubt they ever will be for dd ---

DH and I are very knowledgable in the tricks of the trade regarding advertising. We just don't think it is the big bad wolf that will eat you (like most people do). We don't think it is ethical in a lot of cases, or even clever but we know we always have a choice whether to buy into it or not. Sometimes we do (i-phone ) , most times we don't.
Can I hug you for this? You really summed up a lot of my thoughts on this matter. I have often sat here wondering what's the difference between lusting after some 100% handmade gnomes versus a Dora toy? KWIM? Heck sometimes living naturally is just as pricey as being a mainstreamer if you don't pay attention to your consumption.

Shay
post #87 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by shayinme View Post
Can I hug you for this? You really summed up a lot of my thoughts on this matter. I have often sat here wondering what's the difference between lusting after some 100% handmade gnomes versus a Dora toy? KWIM? Heck sometimes living naturally is just as pricey as being a mainstreamer if you don't pay attention to your consumption.

Shay
I absolutely agree. It would actually be a lot more pricey for us. Going to the health food store is kind of a luxury treat when we have extra money.
post #88 of 112
Advertising is a tool. We can evaluate it just like we would any other thing.

"That looks cool. I wonder if it would break easily though?"

"That's the dumbest commercial I've seen in ages."

"What the crap are people thinking? I'd never buy that because..."

"Ooooh now that looks fun."

"OMG you guys have you seen that commercial yet? It's so funny..."
post #89 of 112
Developmentally, I think I'll be willing to let a child under my care make choices about interpreting advertising campaigns sometime after I trust them to walk across the street without holding my hand.

Solomon
post #90 of 112
Well firstly, dd doesn't see much advertising as we don't have cable and also because she self regulates her TV viewing beautifully....

To answer your other question, I know the tremendous flexibility of my choices and embrace that. I use advertising for my own purposes, not the other way around and I can say that confidentally. The evidence of that is the fact that I am truly happy inside independent of what I have or don't have. I have had much, and I have had little, and a world of in between and I can truly say that I have been at my happiest with having the least -- not because I live simply, but because I found inner joy and contentment.

I know that no ad campaign can give that to me and no ad campaign can take that away from me. I am the master of my experience and though I know it is so easy to fall into blame, that is not what I am about.

There is a point in one's life where they would be better served to look within themselves rather then outside of themselves to find peace.

You may say, 'but that is what I am saying, look within yourself and realize ad campaigns are evil!'

and I say, 'look within yourself and realize that your belief that they are evil and hold so much power is what makes them hold so much power'.

Ad campaigns hold no power over me... not because I am so enlightened -- but because I make a simple choice that they will hold no power over me... and so I create my reality.

My daughter will have her own path to walk. I pray that she will seek my wisdom in such things as she seeks my guidance most things as someone she trusts and who treats her as someone who can be trusted.

However, there is no way I can claim to trust someone or even allow them the opportunity to explore how they feel about a subject if I never allow them to be exposed to said subject (in this case, TV).



Quote:
Can I hug you for this?
Thanks!! ... and yes! I always accept hugs!
post #91 of 112
I think, because they know there are so many better things for them to be doing.

Like I feel guilty because I am on MDC so often:

As a side note, I put TV and videos on the same line (non interactive)

Video games (xbox and such) and internet usage (no streaming videos - informational sites, webcamming with the grandparents, starfall - all interactive or informational) I think are acceptable.

My dd is only 7 mos though. We've been TV free for over a year and I'm proud of that. I was addicted to it. (I *had* to be home to watch certain shows.......)

We'll probably add tv back into our house in little bits. Some pbs, some local news and such. Probably not network dramas, etc.
post #92 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa View Post
Advertising is a tool. We can evaluate it just like we would any other thing.

"That looks cool. I wonder if it would break easily though?"

"That's the dumbest commercial I've seen in ages."

"What the crap are people thinking? I'd never buy that because..."

"Ooooh now that looks fun."

"OMG you guys have you seen that commercial yet? It's so funny..."

And just like a lot of other tools, children don;t understand them and they are not safe. I do no think that a young child understands that they are being manipulated to buy things. If young children are so independent and can make all these decisions for themselves, even at 2 YO, then why do they need us?


DS sees commercials occasionally and we have explained it to him, but I wouldn't want him to watch a lot of commercials, especially if I was not in the room. I don't think that advertising is evil, but I don't think that it is appropriate for young children. They simply do not have the same reasoning skills as an adult.
post #93 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain crunchy View Post
I do have to say though without judgment, I am an advocate of not introducing TV until around age two. We did that with dd and I felt really good about it. Up until that time I didn't feel comfortable introducing TV.
I think that's a great guideline. It does, unfortunately, become much more complicated when there are multiple kids of various ages in the home. I can't quite see myself telling my 14-year-old that he can't watch tv because his brother is too young, yk?
post #94 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shayinme View Post
Can I hug you for this? You really summed up a lot of my thoughts on this matter. I have often sat here wondering what's the difference between lusting after some 100% handmade gnomes versus a Dora toy? KWIM? Heck sometimes living naturally is just as pricey as being a mainstreamer if you don't pay attention to your consumption.

Shay
Exactly! People are paying $80 for one diaper or $200 for a pair of longies because they are the current "in" brand in the NFL world. How is that any better than my daughter wanting Dora crocs (which I did buy for her by the way and she looks darn cute! ).
post #95 of 112
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubfam View Post
And just like a lot of other tools, children don;t understand them and they are not safe. I do no think that a young child understands that they are being manipulated to buy things. If young children are so independent and can make all these decisions for themselves, even at 2 YO, then why do they need us?


DS sees commercials occasionally and we have explained it to him, but I wouldn't want him to watch a lot of commercials, especially if I was not in the room. I don't think that advertising is evil, but I don't think that it is appropriate for young children. They simply do not have the same reasoning skills as an adult.
That's the odd thing though. My kids watch a lot of tv (we don't place limits on amount, just make sure they are watching appropriate programs) and they have NEVER asked me for something because they saw it on a commerical. My youngest daughter likes Dora stuff because she loves Dora but how is that any different than someone liking a certain brand of cloth diaper because they keep seeing ads for it here on Mothering and then they see someone has posted a picture of them and oooh, they have to have it! I have never, not even once, had my children come to me and say they want such and such an item because they saw it on tv.
post #96 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain crunchy View Post
Well firstly, dd doesn't see much advertising as we don't have cable and also because she self regulates her TV viewing beautifully....

To answer your other question, I know the tremendous flexibility of my choices and embrace that. I use advertising for my own purposes, not the other way around and I can say that confidentally. The evidence of that is the fact that I am truly happy inside independent of what I have or don't have. I have had much, and I have had little, and a world of in between and I can truly say that I have been at my happiest with having the least -- not because I live simply, but because I found inner joy and contentment.

I know that no ad campaign can give that to me and no ad campaign can take that away from me. I am the master of my experience and though I know it is so easy to fall into blame, that is not what I am about.

There is a point in one's life where they would be better served to look within themselves rather then outside of themselves to find peace.

You may say, 'but that is what I am saying, look within yourself and realize ad campaigns are evil!'

and I say, 'look within yourself and realize that your belief that they are evil and hold so much power is what makes them hold so much power'.

Ad campaigns hold no power over me... not because I am so enlightened -- but because I make a simple choice that they will hold no power over me... and so I create my reality.

My daughter will have her own path to walk. I pray that she will seek my wisdom in such things as she seeks my guidance most things as someone she trusts and who treats her as someone who can be trusted.

However, there is no way I can claim to trust someone or even allow them the opportunity to explore how they feel about a subject if I never allow them to be exposed to said subject (in this case, TV).

Thanks!! ... and yes! I always accept hugs!
I really liked your posts, also wanted to say, my oldest daughter is the same age as your daughter.

solomonj, it is true that advertising can be much worse than the actual shows, but as captain cruncy says, how can a child learn good judgement if they're never exposed to an opportunity to make that judgement.
post #97 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abi's Mom View Post
solomonj, it is true that advertising can be much worse than the actual shows, but as captain cruncy says, how can a child learn good judgement if they're never exposed to an opportunity to make that judgement.
I've never felt a lack of exposure to ads, even if the TV was never turned on. A four block walk from one subway stop to the next when I lived in New York City as a nanny to a 3 yr old gave more "opportunities" for discussion of billboards than could fill a week. In a big city, standing in one place on a street corner places you in the sight line of two dozen colorful advertisements, easy.
post #98 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I think that's a great guideline. It does, unfortunately, become much more complicated when there are multiple kids of various ages in the home. I can't quite see myself telling my 14-year-old that he can't watch tv because his brother is too young, yk?
Having a 2 yo and a 15 yo I struggle with this as well. It was one of the factors that played into me deciding to ease up as far as tv with the 2 yo. My son told me he felt I was being hypocritical since when he was 2 he watched a lot of tv ( I was 21 at the time) . Oddly enough the more tv time we allow dd she could care less.

Shay
post #99 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by shayinme View Post
Having a 2 yo and a 15 yo I struggle with this as well. It was one of the factors that played into me deciding to ease up as far as tv with the 2 yo. My son told me he felt I was being hypocritical since when he was 2 he watched a lot of tv ( I was 21 at the time) . Oddly enough the more tv time we allow dd she could care less.

Shay
DS1 was exposed to quite a lot of tv when he was little, too...but it was because of my ex. We watch almost no actual television programming, and do DVDs, instead. One of the reasons we watch so little tv these days is because I got SO sick of it when I was with my ex. There's something about coming into a room where a tv is on and nobody's there, turning the tv off and going to change, and coming back out to find the tv turned back on and still nobody there that made me a little nuts...
post #100 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by solomonj View Post
I've never felt a lack of exposure to ads, even if the TV was never turned on. A four block walk from one subway stop to the next when I lived in New York City as a nanny to a 3 yr old gave more "opportunities" for discussion of billboards than could fill a week. In a big city, standing in one place on a street corner places you in the sight line of two dozen colorful advertisements, easy.
Not everyone has lived in NYC, I haven't.
Not everyone has lived in large cities, although I have.
I don't now, therefore neither do my daughters.

I was just saying I agree with you that media is everywhere, and tv commercials are bad, but I also agree with captain crunchy that we can't over-protect our children and never give them the opportunity to learn about things they are bound to come across in their life.
My mother was over-protective, to my detriment.
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