My complaints about Mothering's neglect of working moms - an appeal - Page 9

[lisalou]

I do think women are partly to blame though. I know I had problems when dd was first born fixating on how dp did things wrong. Until I finally let go and stopped caring whether dp did things exactly the way I did as long as the job got done. I see a lot of women on boards both mainstream and AP who complain about their dp's not doing things right and how ridiculous they are and then having the nerve to wonder why their dps didn't take more of an active interest in the child. Or women who moaned and groaned their dp's into taking higher paying jobs so they could be sahm's and then complain about their dp's 50-60 hour work week, travel schedule and how they never get a parenting break. And I've seen far too many women on mainstream boards who really only saw their husbands as a gateway to a weddding, a house and lots of kids. And then one day they wake up wondering why their dh is such an ass.

I think when we change expectations on our side so to speak, then you'll find the other side has to begin to change their expectations as well. It won't always work and no, women aren't completely to blame but it's not going to spontaneously happen unless we change our expectations as well.

When my dh went to interview a ped for us before dd was born by himself at least 6 people told him he was in the wrong wing. Everyone asked him at least twice if he was waiting for me to show up. And this is in a pretty liberal state. You can also easily find daddy blogs of sahd's who were asked not to come to mommy dominated playgroups. SAHD's who are harrassed more than SAHMs are about finding a job, etc., etc. In some ways I would guess they have it harder than even the SAHM vs. WOHM debate.

However, as someone in magazine publishing my guess as to why no daddy magazines have made it has more to do with market dynamics. Men don't really read that many magazines at least nowhere as much as women do.

And thismama I should at least reassure you we moved to VT so I wouldn't have to work 50-60 hours to be a wohm and the same for dp. I never would have had kids if that was what I needed to work to maintain my career. I work FT but it's 40hrs/week with 8 of those hours working from home.

[aprilushka]

Originally Posted by siobhang

I personally do not blame (most) women. I blame all of us. How many men would like to be more involved in their families but are not allowed to? They don't take advantage of family friendly policies because they would be judged far more harshly than a woman. The definition of "maleness" in the US does not include baby care - so if men do it, they step out of culturally sanctioned roles. How many men are consciously or unconsciously kept away from baby and childcare because "they don't know how". Hell, there was a thread in parenting issues about whether we'd feel comfortable letting a teenage boy babysit - and there were many posts about how moms just didn't feel comfortable.

We don't get to have it both ways. Either we accept that some men have the potential to be as good, or (horrors) better than some women at baby/childcare - or we don't. We don't get to undermine them left and right and then say "see, told ya, they are worthless!" . Hell, women know that game, we've had to play it ourselves for most of history.

Precisely.

Now I'm going to get some work done so I can continue to earn money so that I can support my husband who is an equal parent in part because I have always assumed he CAN be and IS. I would add he comes from a culture where the prejudice against male-as-parent (and actual male parenting participation) is much worse and yet he has managed to do just fine despite not having boobs.

[siobhang]

Originally Posted by aprilushka

I would appreciate it though if you would never, ever, ever insinuate any such thing to any SAHD. They have enough to deal with already with people not valuing what they do.

Yup.

Hell, my dh isn't a SAHD but he works from home - as do I. It is fascinating how our working is framed differently by other people based on gender.

For him, he "works for himself, is his own boss, is an entrepreneur, works from home to keep costs low..."

For me, I "work flexible hours, can be more responsive to the needs of my kids, spend more time at home, watch my kids grow up."

Ironically, I spend LOADS more time outside the home working than dh does. And we own a woman-owned business which I started and built myself.

However, many clients and our family members only started taking this business seriously when dh joined - then it became a "real" company (vs my "hobby", before).

So many women on MDC run their own companies - but none of this entrepreneurism is taken seriously by economists and politicians. Women owned businesses are the fastest growing group of small businesses. Many start their own businesses to meet the demands of parenthood and work - but again, this is completely ignored.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by aprilushka

My DH is an SAHD and his contribution to parenting has been equal and no less valuable than yours or any other SAHMs.

I am not a SAHM.

[gargirl]

Hi Belgiansheepdog,

There is a book called "Mother Nature" by.... I want to say Sarah Hrdy (not a typo she just has a weird name) that I think would really resonate with you. It is an amazing book about well, the use of babysitters and daycare, fostering children out etc both historically and among our near cousins the apes and monkeys, primarily. It is fascinating and very reasuring to those of us for whom sacrificing ourselves for our children is burdensome and uncomfortable. Of course we love our kids and want what is best for them but that is not the cookie-cutter same for each child, mother or family.

*HUGS*

[thismama]

Originally Posted by aprilushka

You certainly have your opinion, but as I am the one with a SAHD as a partner, I think I have the authority to say that your position (that SAHDs can never equal the value of SAHMs in the early years) is just not true. YOu can not believe me, but that's your problem. I would appreciate it though if you would never, ever, ever insinuate any such thing to any SAHD. They have enough to deal with already with people not valuing what they do.

Don't worry. I know absolutely none IRL.

[siobhang]

Originally Posted by gargirl

Hi Belgiansheepdog,

There is a book called "Mother Nature" by.... I want to say Sarah Hrdy (not a typo she just has a weird name) that I think would really resonate with you. It is an amazing book about well, the use of babysitters and daycare, fostering children out etc both historically and among our near cousins the apes and monkeys, primarily. It is fascinating and very reasuring to those of us for whom sacrificing ourselves for our children is burdensome and uncomfortable. Of course we love our kids and want what is best for them but that is not the cookie-cutter same for each child, mother or family.

*HUGS*

It is Dr Sarah Hrdy and I love this book. Transformational for me. I got a copy on amazon.com used for $3. I have read it twice and may read it again.

[Nicole77]

Originally Posted by stefka

A little history:

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...t=290941&pp=20

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=mothering.com

There may be a more recent discussion, but this is what I happened upon when I first looked around here, and it took me 2 years to start posting regularly as a result...

Yeah, those are the threads that led me to cancel my subscription to Mothering. I have little room for nonsense like that in my world and certainly do not want to support it with my dollars. And I am an at home mom for six years now.

Off to read the rest of the thread...

[jesrox]

Grr. I am pretty much the "crunchiest"person I know IRL outside of LLL
( cosleep, breastfeed,use organic foods as much as possible) and I work full time. It is hard to constantly defend your parenting techniques to mainstream people, but also to be "talked about" or not supported as being a NFL/AP type family. My partner was a SAHD for several months and now we both work full time.

I am a hospital social worker, and love my job. While I wish that I had a longer maternity leave, I feel that you can be an attached parent while working full time. We have never let our baby CIO and I have continued breastfeeding even though pumping was stressful and awful at work.

If all mothers stopped working to be SAHM's, imagine the impact on our economy, especially in female dominated roles such as nursing, social work and teaching. We are in so many professions, and make a difference on so many levels. The only way that we can enact change such as paid national maternity leave, or flex time guarentees, or any other kind of change is to be in every industry and aim for positions of power.

The reason that I love social work is that my schooling taught me so much about advocating for the rights of your clients, but also for yourself.
I wrote a policy and advocated for a pumping room at my job- did it get accomplished like I wanted? No, but it opened a lot of peoples minds and started people on the right path to thinking about mom's needs.

People on the boards get SO upset when people judge their parenting(i.e. comments on not vax, comments on extended BF) but then judge other attached parents for doing the best thing for themselves and their families.

[Cynthia Mosher]

This has been discussed before and I think the mods came (or cynthia mosher maybe?) and said that Mothering, the mag, doesn't support the mother-child seperation that WOH creates, so it's not something they are going to talk about very much in their mag or website. It's just not that type of magazine. We get a subforum and that's it.

Benji's Mom, would you please link me to the post you read that made that statement? Perhaps there is a misunderstanding or different context?

It seems that many of you read this post and some of the uproar replies but failed to read the thread all the way through to what I posted here.

[DaffyDaphne]

Originally Posted by thismama

I am not a SAHM.

I'm confused. I thought you were not working and not (yet) going to school?

[DaffyDaphne]

Originally Posted by thismama

Don't worry. I know absolutely none IRL.

Perhaps that is selection bias, though? My brother is a WAHD (pretty much a SAHD, work is very sporadic for him) and I know, off hand, that in at least half of the married couples that I know IRL, the father is the primary parent for a goodly part of the week.

I don't think I'm the exception. In fact, the only families that I can think of offhand that have a non-essentially-equal parenting relationship is those few that have a SAHM.