My complaints about Mothering's neglect of working moms - an appeal - Page 2

[Benji'sMom]

Originally Posted by hammerwest60610

How can we help moms who work outside the home?
I absolutely adore Mothering but I must say that there really is little information on how we can mobilize to make every workplace mother and breastfeeding friendly.
Just some thoughts that I don't see reflected in Mothering or in the forums.

This has been discussed before and I think the mods came (or cynthia mosher maybe?) and said that Mothering, the mag, doesn't support the mother-child seperation that WOH creates, so it's not something they are going to talk about very much in their mag or website. It's just not that type of magazine. We get a subforum and that's it.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by Benji'sMom

This has been discussed before and I think the mods came (or cynthia mosher maybe?) and said that Mothering, the mag, doesn't support the mother-child seperation that WOH creates, so it's not something they are going to talk about very much in their mag or website. It's just not that type of magazine. We get a subforum and that's it.

Wow.

[madskye]

That's a shame. There's so much I'm in tune with here, and then some other mindsets, not so much.

Ah well, there's no heaven on earth, (or online) I guess.

[lolar2]

That is a shame-- when we are trying to REDUCE the mother-child separation that happens with WOH.

[leewd]

Mothering, the mag, doesn't support the mother-child seperation that WOH creates

Wow!

[dentmom3]

Wow.

I guess I can't tell a moderator or the editor of a magazine what to do, but it seems like a head in the sand approach to WOH to me. WOH is a reality for many moms, a choice for some a necessity for others. Whatever the reason for working, there is a subset of those women who do WOH who want to live a 'Mothering' lifestyle (AP/NFL) By saying that Mothering doesn't support WOH - that removes some support that these women might have to say balance the challenges of co-sleeping when you have to get up for work in the morning or nursing for a year or two while back at work. Wouldn't more support for these women enable them to incorporate more of the AP/NFL lifestyle into their daily activities?

Wouldn't more support for mothering in general by mothering in particular allow women to present a more united front when we try to get better family leave, healthcare choices, etc?

Being on these forums for a year has made me make many positive changes in my life (and my family's as well) and has been a general good influence on me. I don't think a small article here and there on challenges particular to NFL and WOH would be too much to ask for. Nor do I think it would be a 'bad' influence on the SAHMs who read Mothering.

[_betsy_]

I agree with so much of what has been said here.

Feminism, to me, is about having choices. I choose to have a husband, I choose to have a baby, and I choose to work outside of the home full time. Now, in large part, I choose WOH FT because I am the breadwinner, because we live in an outrageously expensive area, and because I cannot get benefits through my employer if I work part time, and we rely on my empolyment for benefits. Those are my choices. There are some things that I wish could change about my work environment, and if I had the support of a major magazine and the sisterhood of it's readers and followers to back me up on issues like a dedicated pumping room and time to pump, and part-time work for new mothers with full benefits available, maybe my choices could be different.

It's sad to see that MDC and the mag don't support this type of mother, a mother who (IME) needs all the help and support she can get to reduce the physical and emotional seperation of working for necessity.

I'd love to stay at home or cut back my hours, it's simply not possible for a variety of reasons. I wish Mothering would devote some space to working moms who are back at work for any reason. It's rather judgmental to assume every mother *could* (and *should* and *would want to*) SAH if the family just worked hard enough to do that.

[stickywicket67]

Originally Posted by Benji'sMom

This has been discussed before and I think the mods came (or cynthia mosher maybe?) and said that Mothering, the mag, doesn't support the mother-child seperation that WOH creates, so it's not something they are going to talk about very much in their mag or website. It's just not that type of magazine. We get a subforum and that's it.

wow, really?! if true, that is really really sad. it seems an incredibly elitist stance. worst case scenario, there are mothers who cannot afford not to WOH and this would just make it seem that AP was not for "those people". or at the very least i cannot picture being an effective attached parent if i, as a mother, am not taking care of my soul too. i love my work and i'm sure i'll love my child. so, why do they have to be mutually exclusive?
and, if true regarding Mothering not supporting WOH, i think it goes straight back to what i was saying in my first post in this thread about the inability to imagine work and family as an integrated proposition in our culture. until more of our society can envision that it is possible and beneficial for parents to integrate their home life into the workplace and vice versa it will be a constant struggle for women to ever be truly empowered to be a mother in a holistic sense. ( i'm focusing on women/mother because we are talking about mothering and not parenting but it will take both men and women to create this.)
and if it doesn't start with a forward thinking magazine like Mothering then who will it start with? i hope this is not the case and i hope that Mothering is the frontrunner on raising the awareness and trumpeting the horn for companies who support women in their mothering role while operating successful businesses. it's time for us as a society to get creative, not cling to old paradigms of what work is and how motherhood must conform to that. and, finally, a question- how do the editors and writers of Mothering have the kind of mother/child relationship they promote while still obviously working at something besides being a mother? maybe they can share their stories as a starting point...

[nonconformnmom]

I agree that WOHPs need more support from a source such as Mothering and the magazine. It's a shame that the positive changes that have occurred in our society are not recognized as such.

Along that same line, I wish that mothering.com would change the name of the SAHM forum to SAHP. Again, to reflect the positive change in our society in which the number of fathers being the at-home parent continues to increase, allowing more flexibility for families to not be defined by traditional gender roles.

[Benji'sMom]

Originally Posted by stickywicket67

and, finally, a question- how do the editors and writers of Mothering have the kind of mother/child relationship they promote while still obviously working at something besides being a mother? maybe they can share their stories as a starting point...

Good question! Maybe they are all WAHM? But the discussion I'm thinking of was probably 2 or 3 years ago. It was a long time ago, but that was the gist of it, that the they basically support physical attachment and not WOH, well especially not WOHMs *by choice*. But I sure agree with you, it would help us, hellp all parents, and help all CHILDREN most of all, if we could intergrate parenting with work so they didn't have to compete. Let's say I have to work, or let's say I even *want* to work. That doesn't mean I want to put my kids on the back burner. There should be a balance. Honestly, I think even men these days want a balance of work and family, not just all work like they used to be, that's why it would help every parent, not just moms, if we changed our culture.

[stefka]

Originally Posted by Benji'sMom

This has been discussed before and I think the mods came (or cynthia mosher maybe?) and said that Mothering, the mag, doesn't support the mother-child seperation that WOH creates, so it's not something they are going to talk about very much in their mag or website. It's just not that type of magazine. We get a subforum and that's it.

A little history:

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...t=290941&pp=20

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=mothering.com

There may be a more recent discussion, but this is what I happened upon when I first looked around here, and it took me 2 years to start posting regularly as a result...

[Benji'sMom]

Originally Posted by stefka

A little history:

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...t=290941&pp=20

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=mothering.com

There may be a more recent discussion, but this is what I happened upon when I first looked around here, and it took me 2 years to start posting regularly as a result...

Yep that's the discussion I was thinking of - I can't believe you found a 2 year old thread!

[woobysma]

Oh Man, I remember that thread, too. (and the daycare thread.... that was a pretty ugly time around here) Now that I've read it again, I'm all : . I'm out for a bit. I don't know how to respond to that right now. It took me months to really get comfortable here after that the first time around.

You all are a great bunch of women, though, I'll be back.

[milkmamma]

Originally Posted by _betsy_

I agree with so much of what has been said here.

Feminism, to me, is about having choices. I choose to have a husband, I choose to have a baby, and I choose to work outside of the home full time. Now, in large part, I choose WOH FT because I am the breadwinner, because we live in an outrageously expensive area, and because I cannot get benefits through my employer if I work part time, and we rely on my empolyment for benefits. Those are my choices. There are some things that I wish could change about my work environment, and if I had the support of a major magazine and the sisterhood of it's readers and followers to back me up on issues like a dedicated pumping room and time to pump, and part-time work for new mothers with full benefits available, maybe my choices could be different.

It's sad to see that MDC and the mag don't support this type of mother, a mother who (IME) needs all the help and support she can get to reduce the physical and emotional seperation of working for necessity.

I'd love to stay at home or cut back my hours, it's simply not possible for a variety of reasons. I wish Mothering would devote some space to working moms who are back at work for any reason. It's rather judgmental to assume every mother *could* (and *should* and *would want to*) SAH if the family just worked hard enough to do that.

Yes, yes, yes! Well put.

[Michelle Renee]

[QUOTE=hammerwest60610;9117965]Thanks...I feel like the work world has become so hostile to moms that many don't want to stay in it because it doesn't make sense to go back to work for little pay and no benefits. Staying at home is glorified in our media - both by the right and left wing! ]

I get ticked at this - what about us mamma's who provide ALL the benefits for our family - medical, dental, vision and retirement.

Im a first year teacher (well first year payscale) and I make more than my DH because I have a degree. But we can not make it on my income alone - by any means. Even though 1/3 of my pay goes to daycare I have to do this and with the right support (nanny/daycare, my mom, MIL) I am slowly enjoying it and finishing a masters degree at the same time

But sometimes - I feel here like I get NO support or understanding. I am not a SAHM - I will never be a SAHM nor can I wait for the powers of my magic DH to do it for us. We are a team and I must work.

Somebody please tell the powers that be that for some of us -our real life SAHM is not and will never be an option and we need guidelines and advice too.

[artemis80]

Wow. After reading this thread and skimming the referenced threads, I don't really even know what to say. I am totally shocked. I would have thought that an entity that supports mothers would be supportive and even encouraging of our cultivating the best lives we can for our children. For many of us, this involves working out of the home, whether for our own sanity or just because we need to for the income.

How nice that AP can only truly be practiced by those wealthy enough to stay home or those on welfare. Real nice. Thanks, Mothering.

[griffin2004]

Originally Posted by stickywicket67

and if it doesn't start with a forward thinking magazine like Mothering then who will it start with?

ain't that the ever-lovin' truth!

[_betsy_]

Originally Posted by Michelle Renee

But sometimes - I feel here like I get NO support or understanding.

Yep, sadly. I sometimes feel the need to explain that I work nights, and DH has DD full time except for a couple hours twice a week when DD is with my MIL... and I hate that I sometimes feel like I need to explain that lest I be looked down upon as not AP enough or something.

We're making it work because we have to. I'd stay home in a heart beat, but there's just no way for that to happen. DH would stay home if we could make that work, but right now, we can't. It would be awesome to see my favorite parenting resource embrace this aspect of parenting, maybe profiling famlies that have arrangements like ours to show that it can be done, and AP can still work.

[hammerwest60610]

"it is unfortunate that this had to be cobbled together with various types of unpaid leaves so that she could maintain benefits. this sort of phasing-back-in should be the de facto standard for WOHM/WOHDs."

Agree completely with this. Everything is ad-hoc. And, we haven't even touched on women who must work in service-industry positions at hourly wages, with little or no health care.

It seems like Mothering could be one of our best media allies when it comes to these issues...but I do feel that they've left us stranded a bit when it comes to resources. The resources I need are: how do I contact our lawmakers about the issues that are important to us such as guaranteed paid maternity leave, generous health care, etc? And how can we point out to our lawmakers that FMLA is inadequate? How are the laws inadequate now? How can we mobilize to make real change and progress for moms and dads?

I feel very strongly about this - and appreciate all the feedback in this forum. I was happy that Mothering published my letter to them last month in the print edition.
I love the magazine so much...just an article once in a while about how we could make a difference on this front would be a tremendous boost to us all.

[DariusMom]

Originally Posted by stefka

A little history:

http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...t=290941&pp=20

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=mothering.com

There may be a more recent discussion, but this is what I happened upon when I first looked around here, and it took me 2 years to start posting regularly as a result...

Me too! And it's taken me till now to come back, take another look, and start posting . . . I was so turned off and discouraged a few years ago. I'm glad I've come back, though, and happy to have the support on this sub-forum, as well as the larger forum. Still yet, I think that Mothering is doing itself and families hoping to incorporate AP into their lives a great disservice!